Motownr

Has there even been an auto executive who self-destructed like Press? I concur with the previous poster--Press out and out lied to Chrysler employees, dealers, and ultimately, to Congress. Sadly, there is no compensating the many people Press hurt. Lying SOB.

Should Ford starve the Ford brand to prop up Mercury? That's somewhat the situation that faces GM vis a vis Saturn: sure, it's great to tout the (sharp) new product lineup, but how do they justify the car-line carnage over at Chevy? Seriously, the screaming need at GM isn't at Saturn--few dealers, limited historical volume--it's at Chevy, which has both the track record and the dealer body to make a real difference. Yet, GM continues to do everything it can to prop up Saturn at Chevy's expense. The subvented leases, the Lambda, etc., etc. Ask those in the Chevy tent--they'll tell you that Saturn is as big a competitor as Honda or Toyota. Ford fans, careful what you wish for.

Completely agree. My question: what happens to Lincoln? Do they channel it with Ford? Or with Mazda/Volvo? Given that this is the Ford board, I'm curious as to the predictions. BTW...the new split grill (IMO) is simply awful.

While Ford's NA business is clearly troubled, and the bench thin, it would be inaccurate, IMO, to say that they are near bankruptcy. The recent financings have created a huge cash cushion that should put off the 'b' word for several years. What happens in that time may determine the fortunes of the firm, but it's unfair to say that bankruptcy is really a worry at the current time.

Don't forget the Fleet Factor....CG has expanded their sales to daily rentals dramatically while Ford and GM have tried to scale back.

Q1 07 is going to be a VERY interesting time in AH. I walked the storage lots at the MI State Fairgrounds and DTW airport recently; it's HIGHLY unlikely that they're going to be able to clear out all of the 06s anytime soon. And the warranty claims for lot rot? Staggering. The good news is that the problem belongs to the same folks that caused it. Let Joe E. solve it. Our CG store has stopped ordering vehicles completely; any employee that orders any vehicles without written permission from the owner will be terminated immediately. Word has it that other stores are doing the same thing.

As a forum outsider, petty bickering threatens a very good forum..... My take: ALL of the industry--including the vaunted Toyota--is in a knock-down, drag-out fight for survival in NA. Fighting over which firm has the highest incentives is pointless--the data changes too fast/is too hard to come by for any valid discussions. Richard makes a good point in that the consumer sites are wrong more than they are right when it comes to this sort of info.

The only way any of the Big 2.5 get anywhere with this idea is if they break out the checkbooks. To my knowledge, only GM has a fund to help facilitate the buyout and re-channeling of dealers--mostly into Buick-Pontiac-GMC (BPG). CG has no money to facilitate Alpha (DCJ), would be interesting to hear if Ford has any formal program. GM's approach combines their money with the agreement that the surviving dealer either builds a new store, or renovates the existing store to make it a current "Image" facility. Obviously, all non-GM brands have to go bye-bye. Without big money from the factories to make it happen, this is whistling in the dark. The vast majority of dealerships remain family businesses, and the owners simply hunker down, focus on used sales/service business, and ignore the physical plant. They're waiting for a tide to come in that never will (too much competition from fellow dealers), but they aren't going to sell without a big incentive to do so. Until then, the stained chairs and tired facilities will remain. Updated: RJ was kind enough to add that Ford does indeed have funds and a program to address dealer consolidation.

I think GM's strategy of global platform sharing works with some of the brands, but not others. Buick NA and Buick China? Sure, I can see the Asians helping Buick limp along. Saturn and Opel? I'm not seeing it, simply because the market in the US seems rather small, and saturated. How does a brand with few dealers and a miniscule ad budget break through the clutter? VW is seen as the brand to target, and they sell what? 250K/year? FWIW, I think the fundamental issue is that GM continues to have too many brands competing in the same segments.

Richard: I think you've hit the nail on the head with Saturn. We've looked at a number of points that are for sale...GM is really off the mark when it comes to understanding who/what buys a Saturn, and why. Not surprising, as around Detroit you see a lot of them...all GMS buyers who scoop up the $99/mo type GMAC leases that have carried the brand almost since inception. My take is that it's been a price driven buyer who won't be seen in a Chevy if they can avoid it....take the subvented lease customers out of the sales mix, and you have a brand that has no volume and not a lot of upscale owners. Suddenly, they are going to trade up from ridiculously low payments on ION's/L series....to $30K+ vehicles? I'm not buying it. Oldsmobile at least had a traditionally middle class customer base; they had the wherewithal that Saturn's current owners do not...big difference. The idea of conquesting the imports is a laugher....how big is Saturn's ad budget? How many dealers do they have? Pu-leeze.... Maybe Kerkorian had it right, after all?

This is a Ford board, and I think most would agree that red ink undermines fielding new products. A great car that doesn't sell (say, the Olds Intrigue) only means that other products suffer....hence, why bench racing on whether Saturn/GMC/Mercury should exist is relevant. Saturn has perhaps GM's best lineup right now, but you have to wonder if those products wouldn't do better with different badges.

It rankles people on this site when reviewers expect the Ford brand to cost less than a near-luxury import brand for equal or better content, but that's the reality in the marketplace. Many consumers (and reviewers) simply don't think that a Ford/Chrysler/Buick/Saturn brand is worth the same monthly payment as an Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, MB, etc.--no matter how good the underlying vehicle may be. The price of the tested Edge was exactly the one I posted on last week: at this price ($35K+), they get marginal reviews, and sit on the sales lots.

The reference to the days supply is somewhere on the GMI board. All I know for sure is that Auras are not in short supply on the ground. As I said, it may be a matter of defining 'success.' If you drink the Kool Aid that Saturn will save GM, 4500 units sounds like a home run; if you think about how many Chevy could sell if it had the Aura instead of that lump of a Malibu, it seems pretty trivial. It's the convoluted justification for the brand and its strange positioning within the brand structure that strikes me as something GM can ill afford. The Vue is a nice vehicle, yet GM has to undercut its Chevy brand to prop up sales. Same with the Outlook--how does a 7 passenger CUV fit a 'Euro' brand? Particularly when it's at the expense of Chevy which desperately needs a competitive family hauler that's not a Tahoe/Suburban? 4500 units in the first month isn't really the issue--it's more the fact that 50-100K/year isn't worth much if it means stealing resources away from GM's more mainstream brands. Which, by way of getting back to the GMC topic, is how Saturn differs from GMC; GMC sales are supposed to be incremental. For Saturn, it seems like it's largely cannibalistic revenue.

I'd love to know how much CG makes on every Wrangler. The margins have got to be staggering given the prices they get for such crude contraptions. Given how cheap they are to build, I've never understood why CG has never made the Wrangler its Korean/Scion fighter. Cheap to make, tons of customizing options, 'cool' image...???

Watch the leases; GM will tinker with the lease rates of the Aura and Outlook to make them hit the numbers. Right now, for instance, a Vue leases for less than an Equinox...which is why you see so many Chevys on trade at your local Saturn dealer....conquest sales, right! My guess is that GM will keep the lease rate for the Outlook right about where the Trailblazer XL leased at....which equals a very cheap money factor/BS residual. I'm not aware of a cheap Aura lease yet, but if the days supply is really 80+, it's certainly on the way. Our discussion points aside, these are really nice products.