bec5150

Here's the problem, little known, with Ranger brakes, especially if you have a stick. Rangers only adjust the rear drums if the brakes are used with some force while going in reverse. My front rotors went to pot and when I went to get them turned the guy said "Ahh, is it a stick" and I said "yup." he then told me to make a habit, about once every few weeks, of backing up at 5MPH and giving the brakes a good use. That was 60K ago. The brakes have been fine since.

I tend to agree with what you said, but really, can't you make the same argument about all of the new so called "half ton" trucks on the market? I mean, they are bragging about who tows the most and they are throwing 10,000Lbs around like it's a pop up camper. It wasn't that long ago that the typical 1 ton dually was good for only 12,000Lbs. And the new 1/2 ton trucks, hell, you can't hardly reach over the bed rail to get something out of the bed. Yes, I agree, but it should be said that SOMEONE is buying these things. As far as the Tundra being a flop, I think we all agree that this is their first real, true, gloves off attempt. I think that success or failure won't be determined until about 2012. That'll be 5 years on the market. Also, success won't be determined by sales, but on profits. That ALL being said, I think that Ford is in a great position. They have seen what the "others" are going to have, their best shot for the next 5 years, and know what they have to do in 09. The current F-150 is competitive enough to get em through until then.

In the case of the Edge and Tundra both, as well as most cars being sold to your typical "domestic" customer, you have to at least make it look like you are putting money on the hood. Really, take the person that has bought three or four domestic vehicles in the last 5-10 years...they are accustom to getting a rebate. It's the very first question they are going to ask when negotiating, "Where's my friggin rebate?" The Edge is a domestic car, and the Tundra is being marketed to domestic customers. It seems to make sense that in the case of both products, they would have taken into account that they "have" to offer a rebate even though it's nothing more than cranking up the sticker and then subtracting it back off, right?

True, but that is the case with most 4wd's. You have to order limited slip to get it, and even a limited slip won't give you traction to both in the most extreme "one on ice, other on pavement" situation. For that, you need a full on locker and except for the new Silverado, you're SOL. I have had three 4wd's in my life and none had limited slip. They all did ok.

Neither does the stupid Toyota video, but some folks here seem to think it does...

The rotor size is going to give you more metal to dissipate heat which would give the rotor more durability. As these tests indicate, it may not give you any additional performance. If you are at the maximum traction of the tires in these tests, bigger brakes aren't gonna do much to improve your stopping distance anyway. Both my Honda and Ford have required the rotors be turned before 50K miles which, in my mind, is BS. The Taurus we had prior to the Honda was simply driven with warped rotors since it seemed I could never keep them true. Meanwhile, the vehicles before that, a Dodge, Subaru, Nissan, Chevy, Toyota, and Pontiac, never gave me any rotor trouble. Perhaps this bigger rotor thing ain't all bad, eh?

The center diff is locked from the time it's put in 4wd. It's the "side to side" locking that wasn't happening and doesn't happen in all but the most serious off road equipment. So he was spinning one front wheel and one back wheel. Even in a "limited slip" rear axle, if you have one wheel on good traction and the other in the air or on ice, you're stuck. Now the new rear factory "locker" from Chevy on the new Silverado, according to Chevy, is the ONLY factory locker available on the market in a pickup truck. With a true locker, you can basically take one of the rear wheels OFF of the vehicle and she'll still go.

Looks to me like you all saw what you wanted to see. But let's look at it with the anti Toyota glasses off. First of all, he has an open diff in front and in back. Many 4wd's come this way. The best you can do in most cases is a limited slip in the back and since both rear tires were sitting on ice, that wouldn't have done you any good. In only the most rugged off road set up do you have a locking front differential. Second, the video showed no less than four times he had it out of there and right when the vehicle was just getting ready to come out he hit the brakes, indicated by the brake lights and the tires not spinning. Third, he never did the "rocking" procedure that ALL of us Northerners know. So in a nutshell, there are two factors here: 1. Open diffs front and back, the same exact setup that 95% of all 4wd's run. 2. An incompetent driver.

Why don't you all define (or redefine) a "success" Then we'll talk...

I have read the thread asking what I thought a "bomb" would be. I am starting a different thread just so everyone knows I am back and responding The original post implied that the 500, Fusion, and Freestyle had not met their market targets. We discussed the Freestar termination. Ford was backed into a corner. In that thread, the Edge was presented as the next coming of Jesus himself. Ford was pulling no punches. Forget the Fusion/500/Freestyle failure. The EDGE WAS AND IS IT!!! In that context, I would say "bomb" would be performing in the marketplace similar to the 500, Fusion, and Freestyle. Remember, the Edge was and is supposed to be the biggest thing since sliced bread. Don't make me go dig out those sort of statements, we all know they were made.

Ok, let me rehash what I said. I said that an an SUV in the Edge's price and size class needs to either be seven passenger replacement for a minivan, a 7 passenger "truck based" trailer puller", or if it lacks a third row, it had damn well be a high performance crossover with near best in class acceleration, braking, handling, and equipment OR an off road tour de force. The Edge is none of those things AND is overpriced for what you get. The Fusion is competitive. The 500/Taurus is competitive with the new 3.5. I state that with the Edge, lacking a third row seat, manumatic, horrid brakes, and lacking features such as a manumatic and such, will fail in the marketplace. I stated in my original post that even Ford, with the Escape, Freestyle/Taurus X, and Explorer, has better options in their own product range. I give it another year and Ford will be putting money on the Edge's hood. I predicted it would be a failure. I am sticking by that prediction. Of course, I though the 500 had a chance and look what happened. But the new Taurus looks good, so there's hope.

I have sat quietly and let the future I predicted take place...

I'll buy it if it comes over. I think it's ridiculous that nowadays people are clamoring to buy vehicles that are "economical" and yet they can't get 40MPG. I drove my wife's old Ford Festiva like I stole it and always got 42MPG. It would break 47 on the open road at 55MPH. Bring it on. I'll buy.

It's not about the product, it's about how the customer is treated when the product gives trouble with a common problem. I don't think anyone of the owners discussed were pissed until Ford told em to get bent. After that, they got pissed.

My brother's 2000 Ody with a tick over 99K miles had the transmission go out. He was the second owner and Honda STILL replaced the transmission with no cost to my brother. He'll be back at the Honda dealer for his next vehicle. Yes, OTHER manufacturers do step up.