Savetheplanet

Yeah you might not be a Repub but it seems you lean to the right, and that's ok. You do seem to have an unbiased opinion a good portion of the time also. 8 months in political time is a long way away so it's hard to make predictions about the elections. As it stands right now I would guess that the Dem's will lose 3-4 in the senate and 12-16 in the house. Not sure if that is your definition of thrown out though. If memory serves me has not the party that won the pres. election always lost seats in the mid term election have they not?

It still does not change the fact that we are a very wealth nation and give only .19% And no, these day's I am pretty happy. Obama is the leader I have been waiting 46 years for. HCR, Stimulus, leaving Iraq, the Environment, Cabinet apointments, supreme court appointments, Judicial appointments, Financial reform, a new energy policy is on the way. And oh yeah a huge majority in both house and Senate. On top of all that I live in one of the most beautiful places in the world, .6 miles away is the biggest most dense grove of Sequoia's in the world. Every day is a good day for me. I get paid to teach snowboarding in the winter and rock climbing in the summer, I climbed a 300 ft. spire yesterday,. life is good.

You can spin it how ever you want but the fact is that they were local elections, not referendum's on Obama or HCR. The facts are that the people elected Democrat's by a wide majority and expect change.

Sure I would love to talk about US aid. The US ranks 21st in the amount of aid given in relation to our GDP Obama wants to double that and bring the US into a respectable bracket. I am sure the Republicans are on board for that one, being the kind gentle people they are. http://www.gatesfoundation.org/annual-letter/2010/Pages/rich-countries-foreign-aid.aspx

The 2009 US Military budget is $680 Billion, which will be spent on bombs, wars, killing people, supporting endless defense contractors, and hopefully maintaining a few jobs and actually a little defense for the citizens. This bill theoretically will cost $940 Trillion over ten years, which works out to $94 B/per year. Which is about 1/7th of the current military budget. In that kind of light, I really don't have much of a problem spending that kind of $ on preserving the lives and well-being of the citizens. Hell, it would be easy to argue that doing so will provide far more protection and 'defense' than the US military.

So what are you saying? That no legislation should be passed unless the entire country is polled and %51 approve? Are you also saying that because there were local elections in NJ, Virginia and Massachusetts with local issues,and Republicans won,then HCR can not be passed? Are you high?

Two days in a row now republicans have shut down key Senate hearings. The Judiciary committee and the senate armed services committee were forced to shut down by Republicans because they were upset over the passage of the HCR bill. The issues that these committee's are focusing on have nothing to do with HCR. So let me get this straight, Admiral's and general's who flew from far away places like Korea and Hawaii to testify on issues of Veteran homelessness were not allowed to testify because Republican retribution? The Armed services committee can't discuss other issues of critical national security because the Republicans have taken their marbles and gone home? Hearings on the cause of western forest fires were shut down also? Judicial nominees were held up, AGAIN! One meeting that was shut down even dealt with transparency in government. The Executive Director of the Sunlight Foundation, Ellen Miller was cut off during the hearing. As I said months ago, we will move forward with or without the Republicans, we will wait for them no more while they stand on a hill waiting for the second coming. Up next, financial reform, Sen. Dodd is on deck warming up.

Hey Captain obvious, re read my post's, I am NOT relying on the CBO numbers, as I have said repeatedly I think they are a bit fuzzy at least twice in my post's.

Still waiting for a show of hands of those who oppose ending the pre-existing crap that the insurance ind. continues use to deny ppl. HC 2008 US Military budget: $623 Billion http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/spending.htm Projected costs of this bill from Congressional Budget Office's latest estimate: "The healthcare bill would cost $940 billion over 10 years, but it would raise enough revenues and save other funds that the federal deficit would be $132 billion less than it would under the status quo." http://www.csmonitor.com/Money/new-economy/2010/0318/CBO-score-says-healthcare-will-cost-940-billion.-What-will-it-cost-you (That works out to $94 B/year, worst case scenario.) How do you explain the logic that we should spend 6-10 times as much on bombs and wars as we do preserving the lives of our own citizens? Can't say those are solid numbers from the CBO but you get my point.

Nice post! can't say I agree with all of it but it's a very informative post.

I keep hearing pundit's pontificating on TV about how this bill was rammed/shoved down the throat of the american people. I don't know much about polls, tried to do some research last night rating how true certain polls are, like Pew, Rasmussen(sp?) WSJ, etc But I could not find much. I never had much faith in polls on certain issues like HC or cap n trade as they are complicated issues. Can't say I have had much faith in polls overall. With that swaid I will stick by my guns when support for the HCR bill goes up over the next few days/weeks. Here is why, number one it's a complicated issue, and as we all know a smal;l portion of the ppl. in our country don't know squat about many issues. And a portion of the fanatics on both sides watch sound bites on MSNBC and FOX to get their talking points for all of eight minutes. In the recent polls on opposing HCR, how many of those who opposed it, opposed it because either it did not go far enough, or they did not dig the process by which it was being passed, but still wanted to reform the system? I read that %15 of those who opposed it, did so beacause it did not have the public option. That number souds inflated, I wonder what the real number is? Does anybody have a decent understanding of which polls are reliable and or how they rank in truthfulness? You know what, I have more questions than answers so here goes. 1.Will those on this board honor the support of HCR by the people if the the poll numbers for support exceed those who oppose it? Nick101--xr7g428?????? 2.Do you think the BS the liberal fanatics were spewing about how this bill will solve all our problems with HC will be exposed over time? 3. Do you think the BS the right wing nuts were spewing about how the HCR will be the demise of our country, will they be exposed over time? 4.Did a Republican really yell at Bart Stupak that he was a "baby killer" in the house last night? 5. Will Cornell keep the slipper on and beat Kentucky to go to the elite eight. 6. How many Dem's will run away from this legislation come Nov.? 7.How many Dem's in blue states will run toward it? 8.Will the Republican's ever invite Obama back to their retreat in Baltimore after he handed them their ass on a platter? 9.Was the Scott Brown and N.J. and Virgina elections over rated as far as the impact of HCR and a referendum on Obama, or did local politics play a large roll in that? 10.How about a show of hands on who is against ending the "pre-existing conditions" policy? 11.How will historians view Obama and HCR 100 years from now? (after I have saved the planet) 12.Do you think that there was a conspiracy planed back in Chicago in a dungy smoked filled room between Obama, Rham, and Nancy to grab as much power as they could, steal your 401k etc. Or do you think they just said lets do what we think is right even if it cost's us the next election? 13.Both history and the economy dictate Democratic losses in November. How many seats will the Republican's gain in the house and senate? 14.Do you think this HCR bill by definition is socialism? 15.Do you think the significance of Obama's health legislation is more political than substantive. 16. Do you think the our HCR is radical compared to other developed countries? 17.How different is this HCR bill compared to what Nixon or Bob dole offered? No really I would really like to know! 18.insurance company will no longer be able to cancel HC as they can now, will republican's really campaign on repealing this? 19. How come Scott Brown and Mit Romney are not calling for a repeal of the Massachusetts health care law (upon which this bill is based)? 20.Do you think that orginizations and corporations will find loopholes and abuse the HCR? 21. Do you think Glen Beck will cry tomorrow on his program next to his chalk board? STP

meanwhile, back at the ranch..................................

Wow talk about paranoia

I was not trying to lecture you, just pointing out there seems to be a double standard (on both sides) on a lot of issues, fiscal responsibility being one of many. Seems like a lot of conservites were as you said, "less than fanatical" about the spending during the Bush years. They are certainly fanatical now that's for sure. The thing is, it seems to me that many want the Obama administration to fail. The republicans have said no on every issue, jobs bill, appointments in the judicial and legislative area's, etc. I wonder, can any of you admit that you want the policies of the Obama Adm. to succeed? You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but don't you hope that your predictions are wrong so that americans don't suffer any more than they have to? I sure as hell hope that I, along with the broad consensuses of scientist's that predict wide spread problems for the future of this planet due to ACC, are dead wrong. STP

YES WE CAN! house passes HCR bill 224-206 Ha, the title of this thread now has some irony, as does the "proved there is no climate crisis" thread. Now it's time to pass cap and trade, and or some type of ass kicking energy bill, after that, it's immigration reform that the republicans could not pass even though they had the Presidency, and a majority in the Senate and house.

You make a couple of good points, the Dem's (in my opinion) caved in on the war for sure, I think they jumped on the wagon of nationalism during that time, afraid of not being re-elected. I also don't think that it was the policies that they enacted in the housing market, it was de regulation of the glass stegal (sp?) act that set the stage (among other things) As far as issues that I disagree on with the Dem. party, the list is long, here are a couple, I FULLY support the 2nd amendment and am against most legisl;ation aimed at regulating guns. I am for building many new Nuclear powered plants. I would like to see way more pressur put on North Korea, should I go on? What were we talking about? health care? I think we can all agree that the HC in this country needs to be reformed. Out of controll cost's for families and state and fed govt. And I don't have a problem so much with your guys differing aproach to solve the HC problem as much as I have a problem with the partisan politics of saying no to everything the Dem's try. One of the many things I hear on this board and on Fox news is about how much it will cost. I don't doubt that the CBO number is fuzzy and that in the end it will cost more. But as I have said before how are we, the richest country in the world going to insure 30+ million more without more $$? I am not trtying to lecture anyone on fiscal spending, just pointing out that since Obama came into office all of a sudden conservitives are way more concerned about spending than they were during the Bush years. The blog's are gull of ppl. screaming about out of control spending. Never heard much from the right during that time about unpaid wars, 30+billion in farm subsidies etc. So yeah, big breaking news, both sides of Congress are hypocrits, WTF happened to Pelosi's cleaning up Washington? What's that Democratic congressman's name that groped pages and has a whole slew of other ethical charges? Anyway, I hope you guys are wrong and that HCR doesn't end up impacting the US in a negative way. All tyhese other developed countries seem to work it out and spend only %10 of GDP. Not that this reform is Gov.t run HC or Socialism, because it's not, if you think this is socialism you might want to look up the definition up. How different is this reform than the reform offered by Nixon or Bob Dole?

Yeah well tune in Sunday and watch the Democrats do something on HCR, at least clinton tried to do something about HCR. What did the republicans do when they had the majority in the house, senate and were in the white house? Oh yeah thats right, they started an unjust war that was never paid for. Once again the republicans are on the wrong side of history, just as they were with civil rights.

Trim and company spout unsubstantiated claims that fly in the face of climate data compiled by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the National Academy of Sciences, the Pentagon, the National Intelligence Council, and the CIA. Flat earth types disregard the IPCC's entire 2,800 pages of documentation because of two errors and a few botched citations, they still must contend with voluminous evidence compiled by America's leading research institutions. Back in 1989, President . Bush decided to get to the bottom of the climate change debate. He initiated the U.S. Global Change Research Program, one of the most intense studies in the historyof scientific inquiry. It was a 20-year study commissioned by Congress and conducted over the course four administrations, two of them Republican and two Democratic. The agencies included NOAA, NASA, the Pentagon, the National Science Foundation, the Department of State and eight others. Their findings were released last June and here is how the report begins: "Observations show that the warming of the climate is unequivocal." That's right. The report is based on observation, not on conjecture, political views, or ideology. The report goes on to say, "The global warming over the past 50 years is due primarily to HUMAN induced emissions of heat-trapping gases." These are definitive conclusions from the best research agencies in the world. They reflect scientific truths, not political interest groups. And when you want to get the truth behind the counterfeit theories, visit this great Union of Concerned Scientists' Fact Checker site, where real climate scientists assess questions through the lens of science not politics.

Stop all industry? sounds like more fear mongering goinbroke! Acording to you guys objective truth has been abandoned in our universities and the peer-review process gives scholars ample opportunity to reward friends and punish enemies." That's pretty heady stuff. In a nation where few things seem to be working right, our universities and the peer-review process that underpins them stand out as one of our enduring success stories. The American universitys system is the envy of the world. Students from all corners of the globe strive to come to the United States to attend our colleges and graduate schools, 13 of which rank in the top 20 of World's Best Universities. The peer-review process has been extraordinarily effective and successful in producing fundamental and groundbreaking advances; consider Einstein's theory of relativity, Crick and Watson's watershed paper on the structure of DNA, and nanotechnology, to name just three. If you're going to attack those citadels, you'd better have some strong data to back up your arguments. So the only evidence you guys have is none other than the so-called "climategate," a loaded, media-coined term that in itself is propaganda. Ya know none of the investigations into the behavior of the scientists implicated by the hacked e-mails has yet to find any evidence of data distortion. Now please explain how this is all just a big conspiracy by scientist's around the world to make all that big money that they bring home, how it's all a conspiracy to bring down capitalism and push us back in to the caves. STP

More fear mongering from Sprinter! This is what I wonder: the administration is getting ready to issue plans for a new ocean policy to protect fisheries; you know the things that recreational fishers want protected so they can keep fishing? Is it possible that those who oppose such measures are trying to spread a false rumor to inflame the fisher community and get them to oppose a policy before it's even issued?

True!! Since we are on the subject of all losing let me take this moment to point out (whine) the hypocrisy in Congress. While I support the bill, back room deals are being cut, the same type of deals that the dem's condemned (Cheney's closed door energy task force, and the pharm. bill that the Rep. passed by extending the vote for 3 more hrs. while votes were sold right on the floor) not long ago. Will it never end? The hypocrisy on both sides in D.C. is part of the reason approval ratings of our Govt., no matter who is in power, are constantly low. Anyway, back to the HC bill, does anyone really think that we can reform HC and not spend more $$ doing it? I am however glad to see that you fiscal conservatives have re-found your religion on spending, I just wish you would of spoke up when we engaged two wars that were not paid for, along with the Republican's Pharma bill they passed that was also not paid for. Pea's and blessings

Nice plan, problem is the repub's are not in power so their "plan" for the 30 million can not be implemented. The democrats however won the elections and have a plan to insure the 30+ million, and that's what they are going to do. What's the republicans plan on eliminating pre existing HC conditions on the insurance industry? You guys can cry about the HC bill all you want but what you really need to do is learn how to win an election, we won you lost, we voted for change and it looks like that's what we will get with the HC bill. STP

Love the title of the thread. It's almost as good as the title of the ACC thread "proved there is no climate crisis" Just because someone starts a thread claiming that the HC reform has imploded does not mean that it's true. The HC bill still might not pass though, but you won't see my username under some some thread title claiming that it will pass. The process of the bill has been pretty ugly, even though I am for it I sure don't like the way it has been created with some of the back room deals and the partisan, non compromising, political point scoring, sound bite type of process that it is. With that said, if it does pass at least the Govt. is making an attempt to address a very dysfunctional HC system. I mean all these other countries can deliver decent HC to their people and they spend only around %10 of GDP, where as we spend up to %25 of GDP and are ranked 37th in quality of HC acording to the World health organization You guys may hate the Democrats HC plan, but at least they are trying to reform our HC system that we all can agree needs reform. Where were the Repub's on HC over the last 50 years? Where was Bush and the Repub's from 2001-2008 on HC? They would rather have two unpaid for wars than give people insurance. What's the repub's plan for the 30 million that they don't want to insure?