1993Stang

Congrats to Livonia, so sad that Atlanta and all the lives that have changed due to its closure.

I love it "This is another reminder that Ford does not have to have things built by the U.A.W.", this should also be a reminder that U.A.W. does not have to buy jack shit built in another country. The U.A.W. also does not have to encourage people to buy our products like family, friends, and strangers. The sky is always falling when a contract is within it sights. Or simply lets drive down those stock prices, blame the U.A.W. for labor cost woes, ask for more concessions, and get filthy rich when the stock prices increase. Isn't it time for another VEBA payment? Look if the company was in so much hot water, would the company still be giving back salaried concessions? Would they announce all the money that Bill Ford Jr. is going to now have once again after foregoing what he said was his salary. The sky will always be falling, always, forever, it was falling when they were making great profits. Ford just used other strategies like adding more work on jobs and tag relief for more production. The environment and car buying experience is a lot different for sure, people think more about if they really need a new car as oppose to just wanting one so until consumers have more confidence in their own job security, the auto industry will remain flat. The article wants to dance around the fact that it is labor costs that continue to threaten Ford Motor Company recovery, that is not something the hourly want to hear, because simply you are discouraging them to want to buy a new car also. If the job threats and concession threats continue with big corp., people are going to continue to work with what they have. People will save and not spend.

Johnson Controls???

Hmmm or you could have better business sense and pay the CEO of the company compensation that is more in line with the Japanese counterpart. Is our CEO doing anything different compared to Mr. Toyoda? If your argument is that if your a company and you are trying to retain good blue collar talent, why are so many hourly with degrees subjected to no promotional opportunities and remain on the assembly line with the same wage? If I were a company and I spent a lot on educating the hourly, I would want to make use of my money. If I'm on the assembly line and I also become educated far more so then the highest boss that runs the joint shouldn't his compensation be more in line with mine? So how do you solve this problem? Not a lot of voluntary turnover? What the heck do you call the buyout then? Trust me that was all voluntary. People voluntarily left in droves!! Your right, step up Ford, if you really want to promote this " so called team spirit," pay back the hourly workers who share in making your company more profits by building the fine quality of cars that they do instead of getting rich off the backs of them. Each worker should share in the success because they stayed loyal by not stepping away, they made concessions, they continue to work hard with less people, and they truly remain proud of what they build so that quality remains good.

LMAO, really? Who the hell are you kidding? I have a higher education than probably 60% of the bosses. I hate to tell you this my friend but it absolutely does not always work that way. But I do thank them for paying for my entire education from my Associates to a Graduate Degree.

LMAO ha ha ha so funny Thanks for the post

Exactly, I was wondering when someone would bring this up?

No but salaried still offered a very generous moving allowance including loss of value from the home if transferred plus moving allowance.

I love a numbers person, good post and way to get the information out. You should be making a flyer and passing that out next time they think about concessions for the hourly. I am one who believes you could save a ton of money by cuts to the white collar force after all someone has to build the car. Lets hear it from the salaried side, we are educated blah blah blah so are hourly, we are going to lose talent blah blah blah, good luck finding a new job in this market with that talent, we work harder than the hourly blah blah blah, last time I checked that air conditioned office felt pretty good, lets ask them to make a competitive salary like other foreign competitors and see what they blah blah about now.

Messy, messy, messy, stay ignorant my friend. Ignorance is the only thing you have to hold on to. A diploma will never be in your future : ) Your children have so much to look up to. A profile pic of someone taking a dump on the toilet. BTW, did you know that Bob King got his Law Degree while working in the Rouge. My Father also got his MSA while working full time in the Rouge. Same school as where I earned my degree. Guess what my own Father retired hourly. Did not end up in Management either. It isn't always about moving up the food chain, it is also to set examples for your children that a good education is important. Volunteerism doesn't pay a dime but it is rewarding whether educated or not.

Nope, not salaried either. Production management, no way. If you follow my post I am clearly for the membership. Oh, Mulally sorry Mr. Mulally, name is still coming up with an underline when I spell it that way though. Barack, I should be ashamed of myself not to get his first name right. I should say President then the last name anyhow. Yes, I got both Bachelor and MSA through the ETAP program. I used a few classes to actually finish my Associates first then I thought school was so fun so I continued. Absolutely worked 50-60 hours and achieved both degrees while also having children. It was not easy but it can be done. They do have evening and day classes you know. Even weekend classes. No online though, yuck. How would I ever predict what China is going to do in the future, I did not study "Crystal Ball" prediction theory? Are you angry Marvy? Don't be, 30 yrs and out Marvy, maybe it will go fast, maybe it won't. I'm not someone that you would consider buddy, nor old timer, LOL If you saw me you would understand. I told you before, I need not pretend. Why should I? Do you feel it is that impossible to get an education while working at the same time? It can be done. I was not the only one. Ask around and you will see. Socialist economic theory of wanting the other government to buy more of our product while keeping jobs here? I'm completely lost on how you jumped to that conclusion, seriously. Socialist? What ego? Someone pointed out that they had more experience in International Affairs and that I needed an education. I just simply pointed out that I have one. No ego, everyone can use ETAP. Just because someone is educated does not mean they are above someone else. Labor Law is awesome, section 7 rights, mediation, how to form unions., legal and illegal strikes. I could go on, but I have to sleep, bye for now.

Did I say I worked on the factory floor? I did not. I would absolutely never slam anyone for doing that either, If you feel I am an elitist because I took advantage of all that ETAp money, then I guess in your eyes that might make me an elitist. Factory rat? Damn dude I never thought of making $28/hr with great benefits fell into the factory rat category. Nope, never have to lie about anything, never. If you re-read, I know it is hard, I was simply stating that Allen Mallaly and Barrack Obama met about keeping jobs here and not sending jobs overseas. We need to send more product overseas not jobs. There were savings made by buyouts. Those savings could of been used for the 450m Thailand Plant (new investment). Too bad it did not create more jobs here. Buyouts cleared the way for more new investments. Savings is savings no matter how you slice the pie. BTW, other savings were incorporated by having nearby suppliers work for wages that start at $7.50 and hour that feed into the plant today. These same jobs used to pay full-time Ford Motor Company hourly workers at one time to do the same job. Guess what? They are also represented by the U.A.W. If your salaried get back to work. What is your valid point? Seriously marvey what is it?

Old timer, I am young, I graduated Magna Cum Laude in International Relations and graduated with a 3.8 with a Masters Degree in Science Administration/Labor Relations. I grew up on the nice side of town and went to one of the best school districts in the area., beating out most districts of top 100 schools in the area. The school, I believe, got a 94% this year. Never start a new sentence with AND. You should of just combined the two sentences together. example: I understand more about international relations that you ever will and I (Capitalize) can guarantee I have more education than you, old timer (old timer two words). I think you better got back to school, skip International Relations, and take English 101.

Thank You Redemption for pointing out about JSP. Yes, job security gone with that also. Also NAFTA, good point also, rules both way and no way at all. My Granny was a Rosie on the line while Grand-Daddy was at war so yes the American workforce put this country back on its feet again. Absolutely Redemption, take care of us first, before anyone else, AMEN to that. Change happens only when we want it not when we follow what is already there. I have a sick relative right now and they are using his medicare like a credit card. Test, after expensive test, and more test, UGH! Greed, you are right on the money, this illness is making these CEO's and Hospitals RICH! We should always band together with Leadership but only when we know the Leadership has our best interest at heart because simply put, that is what they are paid to do. This Louie idiot said I think the buyouts were forced, 'NOPE" never said that. All I said was it did help the company out and for him to do the Math. You had 100,000K people working at Ford (hourly) now 36,000, most still full wage but some half a wage, this was a huge savings, huge. The math is so easy on that one. Job security was now given to all those that might be in that lower wage because all of those workers would of been laid off. The salary and hourly (amount of people) I believe are almost equal. 36K to 24K. Damn I remember back in the day when you had 1 boss for like 20 people: )

Thank You for your support : )

We agree to disagree. Let me just ask you one question? Why on earth would the IUAW ask for more and try to re-open up the contract once again? Why (tick tock) I'm waiting? The membership stood together on this one Louie (Thank God). While you voted "yes" I'm sure, the membership said "No". They even booed your so called IUAW worshiping Leader for this! Why did they BOO ..because they felt that once again the union was "NOT' doing right for the membership? Simple as that. Period. End of story. Am I wrong? Fast forward to the convention, do you see why the membership would have a little distrust in the leadership after that? Not a mention of, hey we were dead wrong! Nothing, just another rah rah vote for the same IUAW leadership. Give me a break! They were wrong, the membership knew they were wrong, and the sheep finally lost that vote : ) As the other poster pointed out, run for President, if I could, I would be honored and guess what I would do it for FREE. Yes, FREE. No Salary, no benefits, FREE! How many people would feel so strongly about a cause and not want to take nothing from the membership. Did I say FREE? yep, FREE. It floors me that people absolutely insult someone else for voicing their opinion in favor of the membership. Including Gary. Why on earth do people act like that is beyond me? Sorry that would be the lawyer dying to come out of me, protect the membership at all cost but again for FREE. Use those health benefits to get that blood pressure down. It isn't worth having a heart attack over.

Spoken like a true "Yes" man for sure. You need not only a class in econ but maybe a class in statistics would do wonders for you also. What hatred? I am totally lost on that comment. Barrack and Allen met just recently to talk about EXPORTING more product. Product, not our jobs, product. Doing nothing? What nothing? Tons of people walked away with buyouts. This did not help the company in any way at all? Are you serious? This set the company up to backfill all those workers with lower paid workers. Damn buddy how much help do they need? The membership is already competitive? Louie, you and all others floor me with that $70/hr comment seriously? Who in there right mind discusses their salary on top of benefits and then lumps them together to get an hourly rate? Because the benefits are so good you lump that into the hourly rate and repeat that over and over and over. Louis, seriously were you making an hourly salary of $70/hour? Losing launches to lower markets you mean like the "FIESTA"? If the union falls further my friend it isn't over wages, it's over that political banter that says "The labor unions are ruining the country" "They make $70/hour and are not competitive" "All States should have right to work States". Finally, if your statement reads that the U.A.W. would have only 15K union members and shrinking after 5 years then why would the IUAW give themselves a raise? Are they worried about this so called competition? Thank God for the U.A.W. membership (we are on both sides here) its the leadership I am worried about as I have discussed in my previous post. Fortunately for you ETAP was restored so you can take accounting to add up all those dollars that the IUAW received Your check will be easy because your wages have been frozen : )

Oh I get globalization, get it, know it, understand it my friend. My bitch is not that we don't have to invest in asian markets, my bitch is when a company cries "I'm broke", do we really need to have one group of employees take concessions so we can build an empire somewhere else? I'm sorry my Messy Marvin salaried wanna be friend, but those are the facts. I know the company needs to invest to continue to be a viable company. Thank God Morons like you will not run the company because to run a company spelling might be the first thing they look for on your application. Marvin, the salaried folks are waiting to save more money, give them a call and tell them that you are interested in giving up half your hourly wage so they can continue to invest somewhere else. Tell them that you feel motivated enough to make it on $14 hour wages and that you are looking out for the best interest of the company. Step up to the plate if you really want to help the company out Marvin and tell them you no longer need those health care benefits. Money saved from cuts to the hourly, maybe just a guess, but somewhere in the ballpark of 450 Mil???? Sounds like a familiar number doesn't it.... Marvy?? ETAP has returned, take advantage of this absolutely wonderful benefit and get your own self educated. I suggest International Affairs, you will witness the real gritty on how the people in the factories work, live, and eat near toxic dumps. What wages they will earn and how sick most will become.

We are on the same page, buyouts helped to lower cost but to add on more cost savings by asking for more concessions, after half the membership disappeared, well that is just adding more salt to an open wound. New lawyers not a bad idea but maybe I favor the old way of doing business. Where are these new lawyers? Do they really know what the union stands for. If there were new lawyers why would Gary have to be so vocal? Gary is all for showing direction. I'm sorry but the IUAW has taken a u-turn toward the wrong direction. Why it so hard for people to say "No'. Why is it so easy for people to be bamboozled into pure B.S.? Now the business is doing better so one side only gets the benefit? Why? Look the idiot above thinks I am cursing the IUAW, please, I am only cursing the way they are fighting against their membership. Personally I really like Bob King, seriously, I do but what the hell happened? The buyouts happened, some left and wanted a different way of life, some for personal reasons, but the ones who are left should try to respect the ones who continue to fight the batlle and not the ones selling out to big corps. If there are going to be new lawyers then learn from the best, the most experienced, the ones who show courage, continue to fight for what is best for the members. Let the newbies read about what happened on that bridge so they appreciate what they have today. Let me make this simple for the guy who thinks I lack education (above statment) as I took as much ETAP money as one person could get their hands on. The play by play in case we forgot: Concession: Lets re-open the contract once again and give up more. Speaches: Let's let the IUAW visit the plants and sell us on why this is great for the membership. Vote: Let's hope the membership votes for more concessions because this is what the IUAW wanted. Corporation: Lets hope the company becomes profitable so that the salary get back what they feel they are entitled to and ignore the hourly and giveback nothing. Con Convention: Let us sit back and watch the IUAW give themselves back what they gave up plus a raise because we all know they deserve it. Finally: Let us all vote for the same very leadership that begged for concessions from the membership, asked for their raises to be returned and recieved it (IUAW), continued to say very little after they were clearly wrong about asking for the concessions in the first place, and be o.k. with the company crying POOR while building yet another brand new 450 Million dollar facility in Thailand while $$ucking the retirees after what they were originally promised. And the guy or girl above thinks I need a better education, seriously? How did this not divide the memebership? I tell you how it was divided $28/$14 by half. I

Yes, Gary is old school, way back to the old DAP that used to say "No" to concessions as he is still clearly doing today. So let me get this straight... you are o.k. with the new school, the one that gives up on the membership in order to please the corporations, o.k. with give backs and what the union has fought so hard for in the past, o.k. with your hourly wage being frozen while the retirees pay more in health care on a fixed income? What strategy do you speak of? You mean the strategy of taking back what the membership has lost because he feels the membershiop deserves it? How stupid are you? All of you follow like sheep and continue to jump and say how high when the corporations continue to send your work to a foreign country and pay the new hires half the wages. Again, your union leaders are like lawyers, sort of like fighting for their client, weather guilty of not, their job should be to fight as hard as they can for their membership for that is what they are getting paid to do. What is it that you do not understabd? Don't give me the, well I'm still working BS because their are only 36,000 hourly Ford people left to pay. The membership is a quarter of what is was when I started back in the day. Yes, voting him would change the strategy from Yes to "NOOOOOO" Last questions, how did you like that profit that Ford posted right after asking you all for concessions, how do you like that Ford is spending 450 million in Thailand for a new plant, how do you like the fact that you said "Yes" to a vote for concessions and did not admit that after the way you voted. Bet you said you voted "No" come on admit it. You followed like sheep, wouldn't go against the Leadership, you were willing to give up more and after they returned stuff to salaried you said it did not matter. Give me a break, YOU HYPOCRITE! Lets call the spade of spade, he did it for the membership, fool. It you would like I'm sure the salaried personnel would love to know that you are willing to work for $14 hour to save them some dough.

I applaud you for asking the tough questions. Thank You Grim.

Spine, you are so right about the raises. No raise since 2004, givebacks gallore. Did Grim forget that every minute past 8 hours was overtime. So now when there is 10 hours 4 days a week it is just 40 hours. Before it was time 1/2 for the 2 extra hours on a day schedule. If you only worked 4 days that is still 8 hours at time and 1/2. Do the math on that and times that by the hourly rate and see how much money the hourly worker is out for the year, plus day after easter, less break-time, X-mas bonus, performance bonus, etc. Also unpaid furlough days. I'd love to know if that was just Fridays off after they all got their 40 hours in Monday-Thursday? You mean having Friday off and not paying OT for the furlough days? 2BHome, the delegates booed at Gary and the membership booed at King when he wanted all of you to sign that re-modification to the re-modification (open contract twice) concessions. Again, if you still want to help the company out 2B Home why does the caucus just hand over what the concessions were calling for and call it the day. Disunity, I believe that was already happening when the membership let out a big fat "No" to the last re-modification. What is your bitch now my friend? His name has been spoken in my house as if he is a true union leader. My father worships him. But to boo a guy because he wants no concessions for the membership is just crazy. He has a job to do. Like a lawyer has a job in defending a client who may be guilty or not. His job is in the best interest of who he is representing period. There are recent statements that suggest the U.A.W lead by Bob King now want to fight to represent Toyota Dealerships as a way to recruit new members. O.k., but lets make sure the membership that you have is now represented fully and giveback the givebacks!! New membership looks as though again the I.U.A.W is looking out for themselves and not the current membership, sorry but you don't agree?

Seriously, a quote in the paper of Ron after the vote for Bob King "Democracy in Action" hmmm that is funny, real funny. The paper said Gary was roundly booed. Since when do we boo for a guy who has the membership in his best interest? Why would delegates boo? Because someone tried to come to the plate and give voice to change?? Did you all forget that you voted "No" on the same concessions that the leadership wanted you to swallow just months ago? I'm sorry all of the delegates booing voted "Yes" to concessions because that is exactly what you sheep were told to do. Even if Bob King is the better candidate with education, experience, etc., booing an opponent simply because he wanted to challenge what he felt was right for the membership is just shameful period. Maybe all those who are willing to give up holidays, performance bonuses, tuition reimbursement, strike clauses, wage concessions, retirement benefits, hourly overtime past an 8 hour day, and what Bob King himself said amounted up to $30,000 yearly compensation are o.k. with it. Maybe the full time earners are o.k. with the lower seniority people making half the money. Maybe it is alright to you to have things cut to the hourly retirement people because "hey they are not here anyway', right? Even though retired people worked there a##es of to have what you have today. Your challenger has a "No" to concession stance. Your winner has a "Yes" this is what the company needs stance, and we will work it out and try to get it back later. I'm not sure this was the right way to do things, only time will tell. But I would bet on that most of the stuff that were givebacks are not coming back. Tuition reimbursement is a start but that is only because salaried got it back and people bitched.

So true Pioneer, so true.