objectsinmirror

You know, I do much more reading on this site than posting. This thread has about the best title for me to post this: There are 2 things that have bothered me more than anything since this whole BAILOUT process began, even a little before. 1.) While watching the 4 boys sitting in front of congress, That fool Shelby did ask one very important question to Mr. Mullaly that I'm not sure many people caught. Paraphrasing here, "If you were to get money from the federal government, would you use it here or would it be spent overseas" (close to that)... Mullaly had a VERY hard time answering that question, even at one point telling Shelby that Ford is a global company, and tried to answer it the same way again when Shelby kept pressing him. That got me thinking, maybe that's why Ford isn't taking the money...THEY DON"T WANT TO BE FORCED TO BRING THEIR BUSINESS BACK HOME. Of course thats the Toyota way...and he is a big fan. 2.) This week, and EVERY OTHER TIME during negotiations since 2002, Gfinger and King have come out of negotiations, telling the media and everyone else, that they urge the membership to vote on this or that... This to me is strong arming the membership, and I don't appreciate that one bit. I mean what the heck is wrong with saying: "We will bring this to the membership and they will decide" AND THAT'S THAT...No "urging", no details to the media, no purposeful "leaks", no "those close to the talks say..." None of that. because now, if we do not pass it, ALL the weight of the anger of taxpayers and the general public weighs on US...the hard working, scared shitless, Joe and Jane lunchbox. Now because I've read and read on this board, and the PROPOSAL which we will vote on, and because of the reasons above....Sources close to my family say, No, I wont be voting yes... OIM

I wouldn't wipe my A** with this agreement...Send 'em back to the table...If they lay me off, I'll sit back, with my case of beer, my carton of cigarettes and my White Castle sliders....AND FULL SUB PAY.... OIM

Pulse, I have a question for you... Sources close to the talks say: "reductions in so-called skilled-trade positions"...(I can't help but notice the media bias just in this one sentance..."so called", LOL) Anyway, I think these types of "close to the talks" reports almost always are there to soften the blow...Sooo, What does :"reductions in so-called skilled-trade positions" mean??? OIM

LOLOLOL!

One more BUMP then I'll let this go...also, we heard at DT&D we were getting 17 soon...don't know from where or if that # is solid....

Oops, I spelled Sterling wrong in the title... anyway....Bump

I have a house for RENT in Sterling Heights. Seeing all the upcoming movements and transfers, I figured I would throw this out here if you all don't mind. The house is a 4 bedroom 2 full bath split level, that has been professionally cleaned, is vacant and ready to rent. It includes all appliances. The home is located 8-12 minutes away from Ford Sterling and Van Dyke, A little longer from Utica and Chesterfield. I Still live in Sterling heights and commute to the Rouge (45-50 minutes). The house has a 2 and one quarter car garage and is on a standard lot. A large field seperates the back gate and the Junior high school, so there is no houses behind it... can you say GO CART!!...Anyway, it is located minutes away from lakeside and partridge creek malls...there is no shortage of shopping around here. I figure this may be a perfect "fit" to help me get the house rented and to help someone that's being transfered get living arrangements that aren't so pemanent...in light of how Ford people are being moved around...anyone interested, please reply to me on this thread to get contact info...Thank you so much...OIM

I believe these questions you ask, sort of jump the gun on your quest for understanding of this industry. First, I'd like to say I for one, am sick and tired of seeing the same old footage on the news that shows the end of the assembly line, where one casually dressed worker is setting a front grill in place, and moving back over to the rack and grabbing another...if this is how the the media chooses to represent what we do as a whole, then they need much more of an education of how a car is made. I mean, that grill itself probably has alot of workers responsible for its existance. I suggest you read this link about how one car is made: http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0619/p18s02-hfks.html (and this is still just a general overview of ONE assembly plant). Assembly is where all the parts that were made by THOUSANDS of workers at countless plants across the country and the world, are assembled to close tolerances to ensure quality. This requires superb engineering, communication, time schedules and much more...The part of the article about how the tool and die shop "forms" the panels before they are sent to the line, merely glances at what a tool and diemaker actually does...can you say, laying under 70,000 pounds and grinding sparks all over yourself 3 times fast? The link I provided above, on "how a car is made" was suprisingly hard to find and only scratches the surface. I think it to be obvious (to me at least),those that ask these questions, need to learn more about how a car is really made, to fully understand what they're really asking. It was painfully apparent that congress, and the american people for that matter,...have no clue...OIM

Thanks...How 'bout these..... My government owned Chevy Has "Stink" technology Transplant a Ford plant TO mont GOMER y!!! Quality is JOBS WON!! A BAILOUT IN HAND... IS WORTH 2 FROM THE BUSH!

HAVE YOU DRIVEN TO THE CAPITOL..LATELY? ALABAMA: THE HEART OF DICKSY Bailout, Shmailout... WE DON'T NEED YER DAM MONEY!! Support the Greater Depression: DON'T BUY NOTHIN' Hot air from Washington: THE DIRTY ALTERNATIVE FUEL

Ok, here's my proposal... Structure a sort of "reverse morgage" type seniority system. 1. Up to your 30th year. your seniority rises as normal. 2. Every year of service AFTER 30 years, causes your hire in date to rise 2 years...EXAMPLE: say you hired in December 30, 1978...you would be closing in on 30 years. You are welcome to work as long as you like after that, BUT you would lose 2 years of seniority for every year after. So, when you get to 31 years (next Dec. 30), your hire in date would rise by 2 years e.g. >>> December 30, 1980....get to 32 years,>>>December 30, 1982....and so on. This way, the company can concretly project attrition and back fill in the forseeable future. It is and has been my opinion, that attrition is the single biggest problem that faces the autoworkers. There Has to come a time where the workforce gets younger, less expensive and and more productive...Now I'm not pitting young against old here... but the southern transplants do not have ATTRITION problem right now and they wont for years...that in itself may be the biggest competitive disadvantage we have....OIM.

There are some very important reasons Ford needs this merger (GM + CHR) Bankruptcy by either or both COULD put Ford at a BIG disadvantage....from forbes: http://www.forbes.com/manufacturing/2008/1...s_manufacturing Peace, OIM

Both sets of boxside dies are not finished yet...but they're close....AND NEAR...just thought I'd throw that tidbit in... :shades:

We came in yesterday afternoon to news that we would be getting 100 transfers/flowback soon...for toolmakers that will be "trained" by us to do diework...has any plant out there got the postings yet?...just curious...

If Ford throws a 4 banger in the Ranger, they'll fly off the shelf...I'd be in line to get one! It sounds possible now...

Good info. thank you Igor.

LOL! yes it does seem to be normal for Ford to be abnormal sometimes...the tooling is there, it's tried and true at an efficient plant...this is something they MUST do...lets see if heads come out of butts on this..

Yea Pump, I have a 2000 "flair box" with 90,000 miles on it and never had any trouble with it. It's well built (thanks TCAP) and very useful little sucker. They can take their overseas junk and leave it where it is, as far as I'm concerned...this is a good truck, and properly done, could easily become a top seller. If it came with a "just powerful enough" 4 cyl. I'd trade mine in for anotherone...today...good work twin cities, and good luck with this...

-snip- If production of the Ranger is extended that would likely mean the St. Paul assembly plant would remain open until 2011. It would be the second extension for the plant, originally slated to close this year. The plant, which employs about 975 production workers, is now scheduled to close in fall 2009. -snip- Link: http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_9689906?source=rss Let's hope this is good news for our Minnesota employees...Ford better not have plans to "freshen up" this Icon and rebadge it "f-100". That didn't work well for the 500-taurus silliness...the customer is smarter than that...They need to freshen up THE RANGER, make it lighter, throw in a 4 banger, hybridize it, and let the sales jump....

There really is nothing more to learn than just workflow procedure...as outlined by Gsnow...He is right by the way...It is simply an assembly type job now...but at what would seem to be a snails pace to a production worker...as the process improves more and more, the need for skill gets less and less...However, we will soon be doing some of our own welding, be ordered to do smalll machine work, follow our jobs through tryout...even get trained on the five axis (possibly). We are now responsible for checking in our own details, following "the next step" on the computer (some tool and die makers are reponsible for writing the next step and revising steps...we call them pork choppers). We run our own cranes and just started to deliver our own details to other areas of the shop...We will be driving hilos soon (that's an opinion)..if you were to come in and just follow the lineup for the day, you would fit right in, but those who just do that, and that alone...will feel like the work is repetitive....I hope this helps....OIM

Ouch! come on now georgie why so negative...I'd NEVER say anything bad about you...I'd never call you the "R" word...are you o.k? I never said I was better than anyone...in fact I think I'd rather be a toolmaker. George, you can disagree with me on anything, all day long...IT'S O.K. with me, really...but you shouldn't come on a public forum and play smackdown..it looks real ugly....OIM

I never said toolmakers were anything less of a trade...it's just how it is at Tool and Die...you MUST carry a tool AND diemaker card to be employed there, rules are rules...Sounds like they shouldn't have offered those jobs in the first place...and no, I don't think you or anyone else would be taking my job. My job is mine.. I got it, I.ve kept it and I'm keeping it. If they let toolmakers in, well thats ok with me...just have the seniority and the work ethic.....Come on down!!!

Hey Georgie tool and die IS the best place for a for a true tradesman in the ford system.. it IS what its "cracked up to be"...a skilled trades tool and die shop. Yes, toolmakers are not "tool and die makers" but they may be trying to change that. I hope Jeff did stop the flow for that reason but he and we, are at the mercy of the UAW Ford joint skilled trades bargainers, council or whatever they're calling it now. The fact is, we voted on a contract that was to be left open for trades...i voted NO,,,hey Georgie, you didn't REALLY want to leave Tool and die...Did you?...OIM

Here's somethig else you guys should know...I think on the second unemployment check, (about 4 weeks in) it will instruct you on the stubb that you MUST visit a michigan works office...if you don't go before your following check, it will throw your unemployment check AND SUB check in a whirlwind...and delay BOTH! Go online and find a Michigan Works office near you. You go in, they sit you down in front of a computer for 10 minutes, and your out....

Well, the whole key to this is...they're "asking" people. As far as security, you're right. There is very little security anywhere in the whole industry. The TLO's were offered in reverse seniority. Everyone who wanted it got it though. The ones who stayed, went on 5 9's + saturday...and it was MANDATORY. Now, this was timed curiously during the latest (current) buyouts, the local elections, the first quarter finacial result period and during decision making period on designs. Ford has State training money they must use (from Grannyholm) so 800 rouge employees will get training...my guess is this training will be targeted at design teams, skilled workers...basically anyone involved with the higher skilled or those in need of expanding their knowledge throughout classifications in their trade...that's really what consolidation is all about. Ford USED to run like McDonalds...just make a bunch of the same hamburgers ... throw 'em all under the heat lamp and wait for "afternoon" rush hour. NOW Ford is running more like Wendy's...put 3 people behind the counter and wait for the customer (better be cleaning while you "wait") then, when the customers come in...bust ass and make 'em the way they want 'em...this is very close to how we've been operating Also, I don't see them offering anyone a flow to T&D...It's always been VERY hard to get in....even if you are in the Rouge, so if it IS being offered somewhere to go ...DO IT....OIM