TStag

Looks like VW is after control of Suzuki. That will help get them into parts of Asia like India where they are weak. Suzuki are said to be keen on a deal because they can raid VW group for components. As for VW being poor at brand management then I'd ask anyone to back this statement up. I accept that the VW brand is not strong in the US, but it is strong in Europe and all it's other brands are thriving with the possible exception of SEAT. I'd argue VW is well on it's way to becoming the most sucessfull auto maker in the World.

Criticise VW all you want but they are wizards at brand management and making money it seems.

Maybe they believe they can sell a lot more bikes by using their car dealer networks to boost sales or maybe they want to make a VW bike? They are becoming a Goliath. So where's David?

I kid you not: http://au.biz.yahoo.com/090914/2/28lwa.html They have denied it's Suzuki or Ducati today. It was muted that they were after motorbike maker KTM not sure if they still are though. Not sure there are many well know independant Motorbike brands but I suppose "Triumph" would be the most obvious one to buy as it's now the number one exporter of motorbikes from Europe to the US. If they bought that then I guess they could try and buy the car brand off BMW...

There are hybrids and hybrids. The Vold vs the Prius for example. Volt is technically superior perhaps but also extremely expensive for an "electric Astra". Prius is cheaper but not the real deal. 20K for an Electric small car just doesn't float my boat. Personally I think the technology needs to find it's feet in the premium sector first and then trickle down like most things do....

Agreed. I can see this going "tits up". The EU will look very carefully at this deal. Moving work from Spain to Germany will not go down well especially given some of the reasons that have been given for it. The smaller EU counteries can effectively block this deal and quite rightly in my opinion. Germany has played dirty. I can see Fiat coming back with an offer to preserve more jobs, then watch all hell break loose.

So few new car sales to be had in the UK once the scrappage scheme is scrapped?

Also worth mentioning that Opel/ Vauxhall was a big presence in Western Europe whilst Chevy focused on the former soviet states! So Chevrolet is seen as nothing more than rebadged Daewoo's in the UK. This is like GM turning itself into Chrysler. Maybe in the future they will link up with another big European brand. PSA might be a logical choice.

I agree with most of the things said here. At the end of the day MG Rover group lost 700 million pounds a year in it's final year at BMW. The P4 were given 500 million pounds and assets to save the company with. But no engine plant. They had to buy that back of BMW for a few hundred million. The P4 refreshed models using the MG monkier that were a commercial sucess for the business and cut losses dramatically. They mortgaged everything to keep the company going and hocked the rest to the Chinese (who incidentally are going to give the company a future of some kind). This kept the company on life support for 5 years or so but the money was never there to build new models. The 4 directors paid themselves 40 million pounds for doing a job no one else actually wanted. Apart from Alchemy who's plan was to dismember the company, and turn it into the equivalent of TVR. Did they do a bad job? Well let's be fair others did a lot worse to the UK car industry and were richly rewarded. How much did the boss of Lehmans earn for running an already sucessfull company into the ground, or the boss of RBS or Northern Rock. MGR's collapse was inevitable. The P4 are simply the fall guys who took the 40 million safe in the knowledge that the Government would probably hang them out to dry.

Nah it's minging. It's a mish mash of modern and retro that doesn't work. The Headlights are awfull and it's up against cars from Ferari, Lambo and soon to be Mclaren, all of which are better styled in my view and likely to be better technically.

This car is all about the engineering and Mclaren's legacy from F1. For that reason they will sell every one they make.

Do Americans buy many diesels though?

Range Rover sales in July up 50%: http://www.birminghammail.net/news/top-sto...97319-24343207/ A taste of things to come I suggest.

You remove X type sales from Jag's numbers to understand growth in real terms. How does including the X type help to demonstrate the sucess or failure of Jaguar's current business model. It really only helps to understand the inept management decisions that led to the creation of the mondeo X type in the first place. As for the sales numbers then I'll happily post links once the actual numbers become available (Over the next coupleof months). At present I'm working on the numbers given to the UK press by JLR very recently, which understandbly haven't had time to filter through onto the actual figures. Once I do I'll start a thread so you can all express your joy...

Fair play should have qualified that: Cayanne is hugely profitable (prove me wrong) Panamera is expected to be hugely profitable

Right thanks for giving me so much amunition Jellymoulds. Firstly do you understand why a car that doesn't come out until next year can't be pre-registered? When car makers pre-register they normally do so in order to dump cars onto the market quickly. If sales are strong you don't pre-register. Secondly how many V50's did Volvo sell? 1000? 2000? or about 300? Thirdly you said Jag sales were down by about 30% for July right? I assume you were smart enough to remove the X type and XJ from those calculations bearing in mind Jaguar no longer makes the X type and the new XJ hasn't hit the figures yet as it's not actually on the road yet? No funny that. It's amazing what you can make numbers say isn't it! Because if you do strip those numbers out then you will note JLR sales are up significantly. I'll let you tell everyone the numbers for the XF and XK shall I? Should Volvo have been sold first? Of course. The Jaguar XF SALOON (note the body type) is the top seller in it's class with a whopping 60% market share (see link above). And with similar pre manufacture sales patterns being seen for the XJ as the XF then there is no reason to believe the XJ can't retake it number 1 position too (a position vacated under former Dearborn management). So 60% market share in the UK for the XF. Name 1 Lincoln product (with competiton) that can claim that at home. Just one....... Looking forward to the replys given the baiting in the thread's title. Best of it is I'm more of a Land Rover fan than a Jag fan!

Let's see if they really go through with this plan. The Panamera and Cayanne are hugely profitable vehicles for Porsche and if VW starts getting so brand focused then does that mean the end of Audi's supercar as surely that competes with the 911? I see the logic as a car fan, but will VW's shareholders?

Will go through your other comments later as busy. But since when were pre-regstrations necessarily a good thing? Very often companies only pre-register vehicles so that they can dump stock quickly... The fact JLR hasn't got anything to pre-register suggests they aren't carrying much stock which is a good thing.

Love the way you guy's pick and choose your news stories. Well how about this one then: Jaguar XF MEGA sales hit at home: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/242830/ Yes that's right folks, the Jaguar XF saloon is the top seller in it's class in the UK. Remarkable bearing in mind Brits generally prefer German cars. A return to form for Jaguar and a sign that in a recession Jaguar can fight back. By the way before Ford took over the XJ was also the sales leader in it's class, which is why Ford bought them. Funny that! Also there are a number of figures that aren't forming part of TATA's JLR losses. Such as - the high number of advanced orders Jaguar collected for it's luxury car the XJ (5,000 in the UK alone in month 1) - Range Rover's 40% sales increase in July - RR Sport/ Disco expected to do similar in August Lot's of stories on the internet you just have to look. So strong is Land Rover's turn around that Solihull has gone back on a 5 day week! Oh and did I mention the XK is also up 40%. Do the research for yourselves and you will just how sucessfull TATA managment is proving.

Oh dear: http://www.motor-trade-insider.com/index.p...heme-end-early/ Sales recovery built on foundations laid in sand?

Check the date on the article! You will find with not to much effort that TATA has now rejected the loan from the UK Government. Instead they have found private backers to help them out because no doubt JLR's recovery is gaining strength! Also please be aware that JLR has had less money from Government than Ford. And who's benefiting from that other bailout known as 'cash for clunkers'? Wait till that ends....... Ending soon in Germany and the US......watch those sales dry up.... Much better to be in JLR's position where sales are picking up quickly without any government socialism....

This weeks Autocar Magazine pointed it out in their confidential column. A senior person at Ford pointed it out when talking about the F150. You can choose to believe it or not, but it was hardly sensational journalism.

Good I hate Toyota's and the weak pound is great for JLR Exports. :happy feet:

"do you really think L/V has the same brand cache as LR to be able to (at this time) command the prices (and therefore high profit margin) that LR can?" No I don't, which is why Volvo should have been sold instead of JLR. Particually as JLR was not reliant on Ford components and could therefore be expected to contribute tech back to the Blue Oval. Also don't confuse Land Rover 'losses' with Jaguar 'losses'. Jag was dumped on Land Rover. Which ironically is was good for Land Rover as Jaguar is about the only car maker anywhere in the world seeing huge sales growth.... (currently 40% for the XK and 20% for the XF, with well over 5,000 advanced orders for the new ZJ).

Of course it can become more expensive to keep an old vehicle in production if some of the parts and materials required are no longer sold in the same volumes.... I'd go wih the F-150 as the ticket price is relatively high to the cost. Doesn't matter so much about volume as we are talking about margins. Interesting that the RR Sport was the number 1 Ford product for profit margins given the amount of crap they took for not using 'enough Ford parts'. Also what does it say about Volvo and Lincoln brands if they are using a lot of Ford bits but not performing as well as Land Rover did? Actually surely Lincoln should be leading the way in this area?