Yes were dead. when i was at the rouge 22years ago we had 75 tinners. now they have 17 with 5 of them in gen (jsp). only the glass plant has closed , they had 6 tinners. the tinners at the rouge now do not fabricate 99% of their material . they buy every thing they can. by doing this they also have forced welders into gen. i do not know if its plain lazyness or bad supervision why this has happened. the millwrights only want to be tinners on overtime. if we are listed as one of the 22 core trades, we should be represented in every plant, not just a few.in michigan ductwork, exhaust systems , hvac ,and refrigeration equipment, and all gas piping is to be permited by licensed mechanical contractors. many of the tinners in michigan have that license. all tinsmiths even the out of state guys should contact frank ketts at rawsonville, he is in charge of trade license to up grade the trades just like the electrician license program that fords set up.