Trader 10
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Posts posted by Trader 10
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1 hour ago, akirby said:
Tell me again how Mach-es aren’t selling?
Bronco Sport, Maverick way up.
What happened to Aviator? Was that the rear view camera recall/stop sale?i
Mach-E sales are down 10% year over year.
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13 minutes ago, akirby said:
Because the supercharged 5.2 already exists and more than 700-800 hp is just not feasible as a daily driver.I’m talking about an affordable truck not an 80k version. 450 to 500 hp is plenty.
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4 hours ago, DeluxeStang said:
Those engines are kinda shit compared to the 5.0 and 5.2, at least as far as performance engines go. I can't comprehend why the car community has been obsessed with suggesting them for performance applications. They're heavy, sluggish revving, and have relatively low redlines, literally the opposite of what you'd want in a performance vehicle.
Their only plus is they make a lot of power with forced induction, but so does the 5.0.
On a side note, could this make an appearance at the Detroit auto show in a few weeks? We know Ford is doing two reveals, we know one will be the f-150 refresh, they're being coy about what the other could be.
They love showing off concepts at Detroit, so maybe a preview of the electric explorer or T3? Potentially the expedition refresh? It's probably not going to be yet another mustang model, and I don't believe anything related to the bronco/bronco sport has been hinted at. Edge and escape are being killed off, so it's not that. We'll see I guess.
Nothing against the 5.0 - it’s a great engine, but I don’t know why an aluminum 6.8 wouldn’t be lighter than the 5.0 with excellent performance potential. The small block Chevy motor has been successfully used for everything from family cars to light trucks to Corvettes for more than half a century. A performance tuned 6.8 would surely be cheaper to build than the 5.0.
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1 hour ago, Oacjay98 said:
Nothing is rolling out of Oakville assembly in 2024. I think you know that anyways. I believe there will be no saleable units til 2025 at the earliest. Rumored Edge extension til May 2024. 6 month retool you get the picture.
I don’t think TE1 will be out before 2026 either.
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4 hours ago, jniffen said:
I used to run ethanol in my lawn mower, until I had to have the gaskets replaced.
Once the tech told me only to use real gas, which I have, it makes a huge difference.My Nautilus will not do E85, I do get a bit better MPGs, sure it's not a big enough increase to offset the price.
I’ve had no problems running 10% ethanol in any small motors. A gallon of ethanol has about 30% less energy than a gallon of gasoline, so blended fuel will likely result in worse fuel mileage.
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On 7/26/2023 at 6:58 AM, silvrsvt said:On 7/26/2023 at 6:58 AM, silvrsvt said:
https://ethanolrfa.org/ethanol-101/why-is-ethanol-important
A Cleaner, Greener Fuel
Ethanol reduces carbon emissions, removing the carbon equivalent of 12 million cars from the road each year. At the same time, the environmental impacts of producing ethanol have been greatly reduced. Natural gas and electricity use at dry mill ethanol plants has fallen nearly 40 percent since 1995, while consumptive water use has been cut in half. This has occurred while the amount of ethanol produced from a bushel has increased. Producers are getting 15 percent more ethanol from a bushel of corn than 20 years ago. The result? A smaller carbon footprint and an increase in energy efficiency. Ethanol use reduces greenhouse gas emissions by 44-52 percent compared to gasoline–even when hypothetical land-use change emissions are included. By displacing hydrocarbon substances like aromatics in gasoline, ethanol also helps reduce emissions of air toxics, particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrous oxides, and exhaust hydrocarbons.
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On 7/26/2023 at 10:25 AM, 92merc said:
This is a good article on what is going on with the US Government and Ethanol.
https://www.thoughtco.com/understanding-the-ethanol-subsidy-3321701
This article is outdated and incorrectly infers that the “ethanol subsidy” ( blenders credit) is still in effect. In fact, it ended several years ago. There aren’t any current subsidies being paid to corn growers, ethanol producers, or blenders of ethanol. I believe there are some subsidies in effect for advanced biofuels but that doesn’t include ethanol from corn.
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On 7/21/2023 at 9:38 AM, 92merc said:
The ethanol/corn industry is being subsidized to produce ethanol for cars.
What subsidies are you referring to?
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3 hours ago, akirby said:
And how do you know the cost? It’s 2 years away.It almost assuredly will be more than the Mach E. I don’t consider that “affordable”.
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21 minutes ago, Rick73 said:
Would you not expect newer version of 2.3L in Mustang to replace the older engine over time, at least in RWD applications? The new engine should be more fuel efficient, and I’d guess better suited to run at lower RPMs, so if used in a sports car like Mustang, heavier vehicles like SUVs and pickups favoring greater low-end torque should be even better. Just a wild guess on my part.Yes that’s what I was thinking - since Ranger is new, figured it would get the new 2.3. I don’t think there will be any FWD vehicles getting anything larger than the 2.0 eco, outside of the 2.5 hybrids. Maybe Ford switches both Ranger and Bronco over to the new motor at the same time in another year or two.
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I’m surprised Ford will build 2 completely different 2.3 ecoboost I-4 engines.It will be interesting to see which one goes into the refreshed 24 Explorer.
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7 hours ago, silvrsvt said:
But it also pushed unleaded gas and catalytic converters too almost 50 years ago...and EFI to a lesser extent...all items that have had push back on them because they where new and different.
You’re suggesting leaded to unleaded gas and carburetors to fuel injection are comparable changes to gasoline to electric?
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On 3/21/2023 at 5:54 PM, bzcat said:
This should be a very good and successful replacement for Focus. You can see how Ford has really made this its own despite using the MEB platfrom.
Remember last year Farley said more Ford nameplates will become sub-brands? We thought it was a trial balloon to see if Escape EV will be named Explorer Sport (or something like that) but he really actually mean he will use the Explorer name on a bunch of different models.
A Focus replacement that starts at $48,500 is an abject failure.
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13 hours ago, silvrsvt said:
And Ford came out with the 7.3 and 6.8L V8 recently…Yes there is going to be a need for ICE, but in the next few years coming out with a new engine architecture (which the GM V-8 isn’t) is foolish.
apparently GM has gotten that memo and has killed off their rumored I6 turbo engine
https://jalopnik.com/gm-cancels-rumored-turbo-straight-six-engine-1850194467
I imagine GM decided that there would be no need for the NG small block and the I-6 which likely would have had similiar output and fuel economy numbers. Plus the turbo I-6 would likely be more expensive to build. I doubt the rumored I-6 would have been an all new engine. It probably would have shared bore spacing and maybe tooling from GM’s I-5 and I-6 family of 15 years or so ago.
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43 minutes ago, silvrsvt said:
How many V8s has GM come out with over the past 20 years that they are no longer manufacturing? The "new" V8 appears to be a 6th gen engine based off tooling from almost 70 years ago. I wouldn't call that exactly a resounding success that your claiming to be.
I didn’t suggest anything was a resounding success in that post, but I don’t know how you couldn’t call the small Block Chevy a huge success over the years. It puts out as much power as the way bigger and more complicated OHC V-8s that you know have to be much more expensive to build. Ford would have been much better off developing its OHV V8s rather than replace them with the modular V8 30 years ago. My point was GM is investing nearly a billion dollars in a new version of its V-8. It recognizes that demand for V8 engines will be strong for another 10 to 15 years or more.
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On 3/4/2023 at 5:24 PM, silvrsvt said:
The issue is realistically, can any manufacture, right now, make NOTHING but HEV products without selling any purely ICE products and not have any impact of production BEV products that are in their lineup? Or having to spend development $$ on new HEV powertrains that would need to be developed to meet this goal?
Realistically, using Ford as an example-they've already plotted out how they are intending on doing this-new BEV products will be replacing/supplementing current ICE programs-First the Explorer then the Escape/Bronco Sport. The Ranger and Bronco won't be BEVs till 2030 or so. The Maverick is staying ICE/Hybrid till 2032 I think. Ford has said zero about the Bronco or Ranger getting a HEV powertrain anytime soon, and with the BEV version coming in 6-7 years, does it actually make any sense to spend money on putting a 2.3L Powerboost in that won't really improve MPG or CO2 emissions, just for a 5-7 year time frame?
As for the affordability issues-that will be improved as battery/manufacturing prices shrink...but yet people have no problem spending an average of $50K on a car today or spending an extra $10K on a Maverick Hybrid that costs $20K.
Spending money on new ICE or HEVs is stupid at this moment-say a new program starts this year for an I6-will Ford actually be able to make money off it by 2030, since all the programs outside of the ICE F-150 will offer an BEV by then? Ford would be better just sticking with what it has now and just ride it out till it dies.
The CAFE requirements are getting more stringent-its supposed to go up to 26% from today come 2026...I'm sure that the 2029 regulations will be even more stringent and require even more BEVs to be able to make it. So that further crimps whatever savings HEVs can make.
Once again it boils down to nuances-lots of things can change in the next 12 years. I don't think the affordability issue will be as big of a deal as it is today. Just as an example, we will have 20 times the amount of battery production in the USA in 2030 then we had in 2021.https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fotw-1271-january-2-2023-electric-vehicle-battery-manufacturing-capacity#:~:text=A wave of new planned,production between 2025 and 2030.
There will be enough battery production in the USA alone in 2030 to support producing 10-13 million autos a year. I think the average sales are anywhere between 9-17 million a year depending on the economy etc.Apparently GM doesn’t think it’s “stupid” to spend money on ICE.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a42746723/why-gm-is-launching-a-new-small-block-v8/
When ICE sells many multiples compared to BEV and makes all your profits (and will for years) it is smart not to let your products wither on the vine.
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18 hours ago, tbone said:
We export a significant amount of corn annually, so we could conceivably start holding some of it back. They could also start looking at genetically modifying corn that is specifically for ethanol production that has the best characteristics, and as mentioned, there are other plant materials that can be used.We really don’t export that much corn. This crop year (Sept 1 - Aug 31) exports are just 14% of corn production. 38% will be used in ethanol production and about half of total corn production will be used for animal feed, seed, and other industrial uses. 5.3 billion bushels of corn will be used for ethanol. (A bushel is 56 pounds). It’s true ethanol can be made from lots of different plant matter, but there’s nothing else currently available that could provide anywhere near the amount of ethanol feedstocks that corn does.
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“Both have unique disadvantages” can be substituted for “Both have unique benefits”.-
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I’m most unhappy that Ford is partnering with the Chinese. They’ve proven time and time again that they can’t be trusted.
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13 hours ago, silvrsvt said:
What I can see happening is a freezing of almost all development of ICE products-your quality will improve if you keep building the same thing. If anything new is introduced, its to simplify the lineup, like the rumored I6 engine.
So basically by the end of the decade, you'd have this:
1.0/1.5L I3
2.5L hybrid2.0/2.3L I4
I6 to replace the Nano and Cyclone based V6s (no need for FWD application for V6s)
5.0L V8-though that might be dead at the end of the decade, due to the Mustang coupe going BEV and the current Ecoboost engines being a good enough V8 replacement in the F-150
6.8/7.3L V8
7.3L Diesel for Super Duty
They might be even able to drop some of the I3/I4 engines...but I think the Maverick is supposed to stay into production till 2033 or so? I didn't recall seeing a BEV version of it.
I don't see the Escape getting any more changes after this refresh. The Bronco Sport will hopefully add a hybrid when it gets refreshed in 2025, but I don't see any other changes outside of some styling changes. The Bronco won't get any major changes till 2029, outside of maybe the newer I4 that the Mustang is getting and maybe the 2024 Ranger is getting. The Explorer will get a refresh in a year or two also and be locked in till mid 2030 like the Panther.
Ford isn't going to say anything about FordBlue going away till it needs to go away and that isn't happening till 2030-35 at the earliest IMO.
Thanks for posting your thoughts on future engines and models. The I-6 is intriguing. I’m a bit surprised Ford didn’t drop the 5.0 now that the 6.8 is ready as it has to be cheaper to build and should be able to make big horsepower numbers and better torque than the 5.0.
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5 hours ago, rmc523 said:
More importantly, you're proposing spinning off the division that makes 96.4% of the profit that would pay for the EVs....
I think it’s actually 100% of the profit as Ford has stated that It’s BEVs aren’t profitable.
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1 hour ago, jpd80 said:
Tesla seems to be picking up a lot of its sales from premium buyers in USA, China and Europe who are prepared to make the switch. A lot of that may be due to regulations coming to China and Europe pushing buyers towards BEVs but there’s definitely a transition going on….,,
I get the feeling that those lost sales are starting to be felt last year and more so in 2023
That makes sense - only premium buyers are able to afford Teslas.
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40 minutes ago, jpd80 said:
Well obviously they are doing some sort of smaller vehicle given the obvious evidence but agree that perhaps not a “Focus” or “Fiesta” in the traditional sense but equally, Ford Europe also has a BEV Puma on the way.
It may be small but almost certainly not low cost. Maybe a premium small Lincoln?
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Ford August 2023 Sales Results
in Ford Motor Company Discussion Forum
Posted
Those buying these first gen Mach-Es and Lightnings are going to get their heads handed to them when it comes to trade in time.