Robin Hood
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Posts posted by Robin Hood
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38 minutes ago, theoldwizard1 said:
Gasoline engines do engine braking better than diesels (unless you have a Jake brake).
In theory, if the ratio RANGE of the 10 speed transmission is wide enough, torque would not be an issue. Why do you think they used to make 18 speed Class 8 trucks l
I should have used the term "exhaust brake" in reference to the 6.7. Are you saying that the 7.3 engine package will slow down the vehicle equal or better than the 6.7 package? I know the older diesels would not slow the truck down, but these 6.7s you hardly have to use the brakes when descending hills or coming to a stop.
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Has anyone that owned a 6.7 switched to a 7.3 and has drive time and experience behind the wheel yet? What are your thoughts?
I just got home from a trip this weekend and I just don't think I could give up the diesel. One of things I like the most about my Super Duty is the exhaust braking and I just don't know if I would want to give that up.These trucks can control your speed, so well both under acceleration and deceleration.
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2 hours ago, aboyles2002 said:
Having a 6.7 currently with a 7.3 on order I can tell you the reason I switched was cost, not upfront cost but ownership cost. Repair bills on my 6.7 have made it easy for me to switch to the 7.3 for my next truck.
How many mile on your 6.7 and what kind of issues/cost did you have?
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Will you please check the status of my order?
Order # 5124
Vin 1FT8W3BT9NEC33556
Body Code: W3B
2022 F350 4X4 CC SRW LB 6.7
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4 hours ago, heavyd said:
I'm clearly doing something wrong because I cannot get X-Plan pricing.
Are you using the link on the page that has the code on it. When I click on the link, the next page asks for the code, then the next page allows you to select the vehicle and build for X-pricing. I hope this helps.
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On 7/16/2021 at 3:16 PM, ice-capades said:
No. Scheduled orders can be changed up until the time the vehicle is locked in for production. Changes to an order always change the scheduled production date. If the vehicle is locked in for production, any attempted changes will be rejected.
How do you know when a vehicle is locked in for production? Is that the same as a scheduled build date?
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41 minutes ago, IUEC135ELEVATOR said:
I chose the 7.3 for many reasons.
1. Price...with x plan it was $1500 over the 6.2.
2. Long term maint and repair. My last diesel was a 6.5 Detroit turbo. It had no power but I got 475,000 miles on it and it was still running but was in desperate need of a rebuild. By the time I put a new injection pump, injectors, other parts Plus the rebuild, it was cheaper just to sell truck and buy another. Out of the old Cummings, Detroit and the good old 7.3 D you could get many miles out of those engines, the new diesel stuff is too high pressure for me to be comfortable (and in MY THOUGHT AND OPINION) I will not get high miles out of the diesel as I will with the gas , and once the warranty runs out you better have deep Deep ....deep deep Pockets. But that is my thought and opinion maybe I am wrong maybe not.
3. I don't need a thousand foot pounds of torque, 475 w/4.30 is plenty to haul my equipment trailer rarely, my car trailer, or my travel trailer. ( some people may need thousand foot pounds of torque, I don't).
4. When warranty runs out I can stick a programmer on it and a procharger and boost the power up a bit and have plenty of extra play power that I don't need. I can get the extra power if I want it if I don't want it I can stick with the stock engine.
5. I can work on the gas engine, I can't work on the diesel as easy.
6. I'm an old school big block guy, drag racing days of Chevy and Ford big blocks. I have a special love for Big Block gas engines, so to get one and a 2022 truck was just plain ?.
7. Nothing irritated me more then stopping at the gas station with one gas/diesel pump and 10 gas only pumps. And you always have that one guy in a Prius that pumps his 5 gallons and leaves his car there at the only gas/diesel pump and goes into the convenience store 10+ minutes before he moves his car away from the only pump you can get fuel from.
These are my thoughts and my opinions which other people may agree or not agree with but that is why I chose the 7.3
Thanks for sharing! Honestly I never considered the gas motor, but based on some of the comments and feedback it might have been a good choice for the daily driver work truck.
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36 minutes ago, Tncdrew said:
I dont want the complexity of the modern Ford PSD. They're not like the relatively simple diesels of 20-30 years ago. You can add a Whipple supercharger to a 7.3 gas and with the power gains, it starts to make that overly complicated oil burner obsolete. Not to mention the weight advantage that others have noted. Hell, I can buy a complete second 7.3L gas crate engine from Ford for still less that the diesel upcharge! ?
But, to each his own.
A quick search of a Whipple supercharger and it is a $8500 price tag plus labor to install. Even if it was equal in power it wouldn't be worth it. You would lose your warranty, diminish the reliability of the motor, and you would no longer have your savings to buy your spare crate motor...?. The Wipple Supercharger states it isn't legal for highway use and in some states that may not be an issue, but others it might.
What is the difference in weight between the 7.3 and 6.7PSD?
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2 hours ago, Robin Hood said:
I am surprised how many people are ordering the 7.3. Why are you all going that route. I would assume for some, cost is a major factor, but is there other reasons as well?
Above is my original post and below are the responses from the other thread.
2 hours ago, AndyG. said:For me...several reasons. Cost is one. Another is the added weight of the diesel vs. the 7.3, which subtracts from the payload. Another is the added maintenance costs of the diesel over the 7.3. Finally, I travel out of state a lot which means my truck will sit idle for couple weeks at a time. I've heard that's not good for diesels.
2 hours ago, Deanh said:Diesels I feel have a finite future....the F150sdiesel has now been discontinued...hard to argue when the Ecoboost hybrid boasts better all round numbers and equals the mileage...…..
2 hours ago, klinc said:I don't want anything to do with a diesel and the garbage/nightmare the EPA has forced on them. 7.3 with 4.30 gears will pull anything I need it to pull in the next 10 years.
Maybe if I was getting rid of it before warranty ran out, but not something I will eventually have to maintain and fix.
24 minutes ago, Tncdrew said:I dont want the complexity of the modern Ford PSD. They're not like the relatively simple diesels of 20-30 years ago. You can add a Whipple supercharger to a 7.3 gas and with the power gains, it starts to make that overly complicated oil burner obsolete. Not to mention the weight advantage that others have noted. Hell, I can buy a complete second 7.3L gas crate engine from Ford for still less that the diesel upcharge! ?
But, to each his own.
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There are some pretty strong opinions in the other thread regarding the question I posed regarding the 7.3 L gas motor. We'll move the discussion here so I don't derail the other thread.
My comment/question was "I am surprised to see so many people select the 7.3 L option. I assume cost plays a factor, but what are the other reasons.
Personally, I couldn't imagine buying a Super Duty without a Diesel motor. Am I out of touch with today's technology? I just don't see how a gas motor with 1/2 the torque can compare when under load.
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I am surprised how many people are ordering the 7.3. Why are you all going that route. I would assume for some, cost is a major factor, but is there other reasons as well?
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10 minutes ago, ice-capades said:
It's usually a week but with everything going on with scheduling and production issues these days I wouldn't count on it.
No sweat... I am more concerned about getting what I want. A few weeks or a month now, is easily forgotten in a couple of years.
Thank you for all the time you put into this. A lot of your responses are helpful and seen by others than just the poster.
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3 hours ago, ice-capades said:
Your Dealer would have to check to see if the order is locked in for production yet. Making the change in WBDO (Web Based Dealer Ordering) may generate a notice. Otherwise, the change would be sent to the plant for processing and either accepted or rejected with confirmation available within 48 hours. Note that altering a scheduled order usually changes the scheduled production date by at least a week.
Thank you! A week isn't a big deal to me.
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8 hours ago, ice-capades said:
No. Removing an option doesn't affect the original order date. Only changing the order type... Stock > Retail resets the clock for the original order date.
Is it possible to add a Heavy duty front suspension to a truck that is currently scheduled for the week of August 9th?
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You can clearly see the jack with the seat bottom up. It is under the seat, but yes...technically also behind the seat.
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16 hours ago, nickel plate said:
My truck has a 110/400W outlet on the dash, the inverter is taking up the whole space where the 2020 super duty owner's manual on page 426 states that the jack is under the rear passenger seat. NO it's not there, where is the jack?
Yes it is...unless someone took yours out. The jack is against the firewall further back under the seat.
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8 hours ago, Buckymaster said:
I place my order for the subject line truck. Dealer made a change to include the Snow Plow Package (springs). He said I would really apprciate them on the diesel. I currently have an '08 350 Diesel without this option. The ride is good. Is this package going to cause ride stifness in the front end, or will it raise/lift the front end? I pull a 5th wheel and concerned it will squat after loaded with trailer if it's sitting level without the load..
It is funny you bring this up today. I was just thinking today that the front springs on my 2019 CCLB 6.7 were to soft and that I should put a leveling kit on it. The truck feels like it bottoms out on speed bumps and such. He might be on to something with his recommendation.
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If you are trying to decide on a trim level and what the LED's will cost you from Ford, I've done a lot of research on this and a base Lariat with the value package is only $3K more than a loaded up XLT. It gives you a few more upgrades, leather, and the resell value on the Lariat is approximately $10K higher down the road. I struggled with this, because I don't need or really want leather for my work truck, but for re-sell down the road it was a no brainer for me. As stated above, you will need the Ultimate package to get the LED's. I personally didn't really see the value in the ultimate package over the value package, but I did add the tailgate step so the upgrade to the ultimate wouldn't be the full pop. Personally, I would upgrade to the ultimate package and add LED's before spending the $2,200 on aftermarket lights, have to install them myself, and deal with any warranty issues, but that is just me wanting to keep things simple now days.
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I'll take the other side. Quality control good be better. Rested employees that want to get back to work. Chip manufacturing moving to the US? All sorts of things could lead to a better truck, not worse. Only time will tell, but IMO extended warranties are rarely worth it.
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1 hour ago, chadstickpoindexter said:
Are you near this dealership? If so I'd love if you could snap some photos of both the door jamb stickers! Also, being that this one is a 4x4 with the snow plow package I am curious which front springs it has.
So that's the thing... in the towing guide there is no mention of a lesser rating for a F250 with the HCTT for the 5th wheel/gooseneck tow rating except for on the Tremor set up. This leads me to believe that the ratings on the conventional towing is a typo... otherwise, lesser rated tires would have a lesser capacity, no matter how the weight is applied.
As far as other guides, the dealer looked through all the guides that they have and this is the only place this is mentioned, and still, no one can explain how a lesser rated tire would have result in a higher capacity. As well, if the listed 20,000 lbs isn't the actual rating, then there is no listed rating documented for this truck setup with 18" A/T (non Tremor) tires. It just doesn't make sense. Also, for what it's worth, I will never have anywhere near 20k towing on this truck, but like I mentioned earlier, I don't want any permanent derating on it for something silly like this.
Also, just curious, if both of your 350's are the same year models and the same set up, is one rated more or less than the other on any of the ratings (GVWR, GCWR, towing capacities, etc...) Also, are the towing capacities permanently assigned to either truck anywhere like the GVWR or the payload is?
I am not saying the tires are lower rated. I am suggesting that Ford may consider a AT tire to have less traction and may not recommend it for the higher load with a bumper pull trailer. I am not aware of any sticker or nameplate on either truck that states specific trailer tow capacity. Both trucks are F350's with GVWR of 11,500 lbs. The truck with the 20's is a 2017 and the truck with the 18" AT is a 2019 with an FX4 package. Personally, I wish you could get the hill descent without the FX4 package and AT tires.
I don't think your truck will be de-rated. I think based on your trim and accessories that Ford recommends a maximum trailer tow weight.
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2 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said:
I posted a screenshot of the towing guide that we are talking about in one of the first few posts over on page 1 of this thread, but if you want to look through the whole guide, here is a link to the 2022 Ford Towing Guide. The part in question is in the F250 Conventional Guide on page 5, and then it is mentioned again under "Required Equipment" on page 10.
Also here is a link to the typically used Continental ContiTrac LT275/65 R18E A/S tires, which have a Load Index of 123, a Load Range E and the Max Load of 3,415 lbs.
And here is a link to the typically used Goodyear Wrangler LT 275/70 R18E A/T tires, which has a Load Index of 125, a Load Range E and a Max Load of 3,640 lbs.
(Notice the higher rating of the A/T tires over the A/S tires...)
In the towing guide on page 10 (top left corner) it states:
"F-250: For 20,000-pound conventional tow rating – High-Capacity Trailer Tow Package (535) with 18" All-Season or 20" All-Terrain Tires."
Then on page 5 when following the line across the chart for the 6.7 engine with 3.31 gears at 30,000 lbs GCWR (trucks with the HCTT/535 package equipped for F250's) this comes up again.
The truck I ordered is a 6.7 V8 with 3.31 gears with the HCTT package, Crew Cab, 4X4 159"WB 6-3/4' Box. For this truck on this chart the listed ratings for "Conventional Towing" is simply listed at 20,000 lbs....but is noted that this is if 18" A/S or 20" A/T tires are equipped. (Also notice that on the line below for the 6.7, 3.55, 30,000 GCWR Tremor package, 2 weights *ARE* listed: 20,000 lbs - again with 18" A/S or 20" A/T tires, neither of which the Tremors come with since they come with 35" Off Road A/T tires *on an 18" wheel*, and 15,000 lbs - if equipped with the Tremor package.)
So this leaves 2 questions:
1. What is the conventional tow rating of the standard (non Tremor) F250 with the HCTT package and 18" (non Tremor) A/T tires?
2. How can the tow rating be higher with the lower rated 18" A/S tires over the higher rated 18" (non Tremor) A/T tires?
IMO, this is some sort of a typo. I have looked at the 2022, 2021 and the 2020 Towing guides and they are all the same, so maybe a copy and paste from year to year... Or maybe it has something to do with the Tremor package also technically being an 18" A/T tire and the wording is just all screwed up... Maybe the correct wording is that the Conventional Towing is 20,000 lbs for the standard F250's with the HCTT package and no Tremor package, but with the Tremor package it is 15,000 lbs.
It just doesn't make sense that a lower rated A/S tire would offer more towing capacity, and by how much? No way that the lower rated A/S tire will offer 5000 lbs more towing capacity than a higher rated A/T tire...
So, after 2 pages of this topic now, my only concern is will my truck somehow be permanently derated since I went with the regular 18" A/T tires over the regular 18" A/S tires? I don't think it will, but after spending money on both the snow plow/camper package to max out the front end, and the the HCTT package to max out the rear end I would be very disappointed if it did. I know that without the HCTT package the max GVWR on the F250 is 10k. I don't have a truck to look around on, but is the "max towing capacity" listed somewhere on the truck that won't change like the GVWR is?
My guess is that it has to do with the contact patch of an AT tire. It doesn't seem to apply on the 5th wheel rating that would have a direct load over the tire patch. I will say that my F350 LB with the FX4 package (18" AT tires) is way more loose on the rear end than my F350 LB with 20" AS tires. Just a thought that a 20K lb trailer could really push that AT tire around.
Have you seen or looked at the final version that was supposed to be available September 2021? Also, maybe someone can get there hands on the "dealer and reference “eSourceBook” Job Aid “Spec’ing F-Series Trucks for Towing”? as referenced in the tow guide that you attached.
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5 hours ago, chadstickpoindexter said:
Umm… because I don’t need a 350. With what your saying though, why would you want a 350, why not a 450? You see how that can go… on and on…
After looking at the numbers on higher trim 250’s than mine (more options/weight) I am now anticipating a 2800-2900 lb payload in my 250 set up, and I actually don’t need it for what I’m currently doing, but is there something wrong with getting the most out of whichever truck we choose to go with? By making sure the ratings are listed correctly I am future proofing this 250, which will be all we’ll ever need. We have no plans or wants for a 5th wheel (didn’t even get the package… and if we were planning to get a 5er we would just go with a 450) and while we may upgrade our current camper years down the road, it’ll still be under 10k. So there’s no need for a 350, but I feel justified in wanting to make sure that what I am getting is the most I can get out of it. Besides that, there really won’t be any differences between my 250 and a stock 350 since I upgraded both front and rear ends, so it really kind of is a 350, but with badging and paperwork for a 250 (less registration issues/costs in some areas).
So, do you have any thoughts on the question about the tires…?
Sorry I got off topic ...I can't find the 2022 tow guide, post up a link to the actual guide and I'll look thru it.
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On 6/23/2021 at 2:15 PM, chadstickpoindexter said:
I understand that there are multiple ratings and they all just boil down to basically the lowest, but the examples I gave above show that the A/T tire have a higher load rating than the A/S tire (both 18's)... so I don't understand this...
Especially after adding both the snow plow/camper package and the HCTT package to my 250, I would hope that simply because I chose the 18 A/T tires it isn't going to decrease the official numbers on *my* truck by 5000 lbs! I posted the load ratings for the 18 A/S and A/T tires above and the A/T tires have the higher rating by 225 lbs. Even if it were the other way around, how in the world would that drop the towing capacity by 5000 lbs?
I added the HCTT to my truck so that I could get the higher GVWR (10800 vs 10000) and the higher GCWR (30000 vs 23500) and presumably the higher conventional tow rating (20000 vs 15000). What's interesting, on that towing guide, in order to get the 30000 GVWR it is noted that the HCTT package is required and then also bumps the GVWR up to 10800 lbs, but with no mention of which tires are required for these weights. I'm hoping that they just made a mistake on the "guide"... or maybe I am just not understanding it (which I accept is possible). What's also interesting is that on that same line (for the 3.31 rear end) under max weight carrying/distribution there is no weight indicated for 18" A/T tires... it only says 20000 and then indicates that this weight requires 18 A/S or 20 A/T tires... so with 18 A/T, what is the number then? There's not one listed.
Why are you buying a F250 if you want the max ratings?
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On 6/30/2021 at 4:32 PM, Nick1236 said:
I will add that if you getting serious into camping and plan on ordering a large fifth wheel (anything over GVWR 15k) I would skip the F250 all together and immediately go F350 dually.
even if you are within spec of the F250 you will wish you had the bigger truck for a trailer that size.
You don't need a dually for anything over 15K, but I would recommend a F350 and long bed for any truck with a diesel motor.
7.3 liter Gas option verse 6.7 liter PSD
in F-Series SuperDuty Forum
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Will you post a link to the video. I can't seem to find it.