2 shifts at KTP in April

[big blue fury]

The rumor going around is that 2 shifts will be at KTP in April and line speed is going up. Anybody know any truth to it?

[Q-bert]

The rumor going around is that 2 shifts will be at KTP in April and line speed is going up. Anybody know any truth to it?

 

 

yep, you can count on it!

[ky862]

The rumor going around is that 2 shifts will be at KTP in April and line speed is going up. Anybody know any truth to it?

 

Where did you hear this? Did it come from anyone of any importance? I hear order bank is around 70K, this is the big launch of the year, so why mess with things.

[Ktp1989]

Where did you hear this? Did it come from anyone of any importance? I hear order bank is around 70K, this is the big launch of the year, so why mess with things.

First let me state that I myself have not spoken to anyone directly inThis rumor is hot and heavy in here tonight. I am hearing this one is coming from some reps from Detroit in the building during this launch. We are hearing that after Easter we will go back to 2 shifts, 10 hour days, 5 days a week and Sats when they need them and that once the two shifts are up and running that they will let all the tpters go and cut loose all the buyout employees and have the right amount of employees left to run the two shifts without any layoffs or transfers. This, according to the Detroit Reps, is the reason we have not taken in any other transfers. This appears to be the reason for the line speed increase on line #1. We will see in about 3 weeks or so if there is anything to it or not.

[rc38]

First let me state that I myself have not spoken to anyone directly inThis rumor is hot and heavy in here tonight. I am hearing this one is coming from some reps from Detroit in the building during this launch. We are hearing that after Easter we will go back to 2 shifts, 10 hour days, 5 days a week and Sats when they need them and that once the two shifts are up and running that they will let all the tpters go and cut loose all the buyout employees and have the right amount of employees left to run the two shifts without any layoffs or transfers. This, according to the Detroit Reps, is the reason we have not taken in any other transfers. This appears to be the reason for the line speed increase on line #1. We will see in about 3 weeks or so if there is anything to it or not.

 

 

I have been telling people around me for months that this was going to happen. They only let 6 buyouts total go from trim in March,thats 2 per crew. I figured it was either cutting a shift or holding onto people till LAP had a line speed reduction. My guess was a shift reduction,well we see now what's going to happen. Several committee people said the same thing throughout the plant. Paint and body will go to 4-10's and trim chassis will go to 5-10's. That way if something goes down in paint or body,they will just run 10.7,plus it lets them schedule sat night if they get way behind.

Plus the 5-10's can be cut back to 8 if needed. Heard it will take April 99 senority to avoid being laid off,if there isn't enough buyouts to cover the shift loss.

Edited March 13, 2007 by rc38

[thintwowin]

I have been telling people around me for months that this was going to happen. They only let 6 buyouts total go from trim in March,thats 2 per crew. I figured it was either cutting a shift or holding onto people till LAP had a line speed reduction. My guess was a shift reduction,well we see now what's going to happen. Several committee people said the same thing throughout the plant. Paint and body will go to 4-10's and trim chassis will go to 5-10's. That way if something goes down in paint or body,they will just run 10.7,plus it lets them schedule sat night if they get way behind.

Plus the 5-10's can be cut back to 8 if needed. Heard it will take April 99 senority to avoid being laid off,if there isn't enough buyouts to cover the shift loss.

 

 

How is paint and body gonna go 4- 10's they cant keep up now?....unless its 3 shifts

 

Just my guess but 5-10's (10.7's)with tag relief trim,frame,chassis =20(21.4) hours 5-8's 3 shifts paint, body mass relief(no lunch like now)=21.6 hours

Edited March 13, 2007 by thintwowin

[big blue fury]

When they went to C crew and 3 8s the paper said to improve the quality of life. Will this paper say to worsen the family life? I remember those 5 10s. AWOLS left and right, broken marriages, being exhausted. I hate to think we will go back to that. What is the purpose of voting for COA if we are going to work like that? I think my days at Ford are numbered. I am done with a company that is probably the most poorly run business I have been associated with and a union that is losing all the benefits it once fought to keep. What good is the union if they cut your pay and degrade your insurance? That is what will happen in Sept. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

[superduty-1]

The rumor going around is that 2 shifts will be at KTP in April and line speed is going up. Anybody know any truth to it?

DONT DRINK THE KOOL-AID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jamscal]

Yea, elimination of a crew is probably the most common rumor at KTP. BUT, I do think it will happen eventually, and the rumors are pretty rampant right now.

 

Of course, part of the problem is a serious lack of real communication, which makes rumors and hearsay all we have to go on.

 

I do find it very strange that we've (my team) have had four extra people since last year, and now have 6+, and no one has gotten their buyout (I think we have 8 signed up). We could've gotten rid of at least one a month Jan. Feb. and Mar., and still have awol coverage or flips. There are almost no buyouts from Chassis, and the latest rumor there is none are going in April either. It seems like the crew rumor and lack of flips are related.

 

Our sups tell us they 'put us on the list,' whatever that means, but they seem as in the dark about the buyout process as we are.

 

KTP has been on 5 10's and every other Saturday before the 3 crew arrangement, and could go back again just as easily. High or higher order bank then.

 

Finally, an alternate rumor I heard last night:

 

2 shifts going 10 hours, one shift laid off, rotating this arrangement, until the final decision. Of course it makes no sense, which is why it's possible.

[rc38]

Yea, elimination of a crew is probably the most common rumor at KTP. BUT, I do think it will happen eventually, and the rumors are pretty rampant right now.

 

Of course, part of the problem is a serious lack of real communication, which makes rumors and hearsay all we have to go on.

 

I do find it very strange that we've (my team) have had four extra people since last year, and now have 6+, and no one has gotten their buyout (I think we have 8 signed up). We could've gotten rid of at least one a month Jan. Feb. and Mar., and still have awol coverage or flips. There are almost no buyouts from Chassis, and the latest rumor there is none are going in April either. It seems like the crew rumor and lack of flips are related.

 

Our sups tell us they 'put us on the list,' whatever that means, but they seem as in the dark about the buyout process as we are.

 

KTP has been on 5 10's and every other Saturday before the 3 crew arrangement, and could go back again just as easily. High or higher order bank then.

 

Finally, an alternate rumor I heard last night:

 

2 shifts going 10 hours, one shift laid off, rotating this arrangement, until the final decision. Of course it makes no sense, which is why it's possible.

 

 

We were told in trim that you guys in chassis had quite a few take the buyouts for march. They only let 2 per crew go in trim.

We heard your manpower was overloaded also,and thats the reason for you guys getting most of the buyouts.

 

Sounds like that rumour was untrue,there something going to happen. They are holding on to us buyout people for some kind of reason. There was too many committee people saying the same thing about shift reduction.

Oh well,will probably know something soon.

[big blue fury]

The buyout deal in chassis is not true. They just asked 4 people on my team last week if they wanted to take the buyout. They were told they had until June to decide. One of the other shifts have already let people take the buyout. We have 3 tpts on my team. I think some thing is in the works. I think we should have weekly order bank reports. I would say that if body and paint have to work an extra shift to keep up something is wrong. We may be going 2 shifts with body and paint going 3 crew until they are able to keep up which then we would add a 3rd crew once again. Word is that LAP is pretty much gone and that making a 3rd crew open up at the right time would allow those neighbor employees to come over and not allow out of staters in pushing LAP people out of state. Does anybody know what will really happen to those people if the plant is closed being we are the same local? Why do they need LAP anyway when we could do it all?

[jamscal]

The buyout deal in chassis is not true. They just asked 4 people on my team last week if they wanted to take the buyout.

 

 

I can only speak for C crew, but the list up in Labor shows that there are very few buyouts from Chassis in March on any Crew. I can't remember the plantwide number, but I think it was around 75...could be wrong on that though.

 

They ask us all the time about buyouts, just nothing comes of it. I was asked just last week, again, if I was still interested in going, and if so, when. I said asap. Of course, I don't expect to be on the list for April.

 

As mentioned, we have a bunch of extras, including three TPTs who know jobs, and still nothing.

 

I wish I were wrong, but I don't see much movement on the buyouts from where I sit.

[Ktp1989]

Does anybody know what will really happen to those people if the plant is closed being we are the same local?

If Lap closes, anyone who's home plant is Ktp will have the right to come back to this plant and bump the low seniority. No questions about this. No other employee can bump anyone else from here and can only come if there is a opening. The only other possible seniro would be that if Lap's product came here (explorer) they would have the option to come with it if their seniority allowed it. I was laid off from Ktp in '89 and went to Lap and came back in '95 so I'm quite aware of how the home plant issue works. I am fairly sure on this one which is a real rarity these days about anything with this company.

[KTP_Sparky]

Not that it's anything more than a rumor, but a chassis repairman was telling me two months ago he was hearing that paint and body would stay on 3x8(5 days) while final would transition to 2x10(5 days) and there would be extra saturdays.

 

I know it's just another rumor (albiet, two monthes old) but I believe the company could actually pull this off without layoffs since we have so many already signed up for the buyouts.

 

On a side note, my sup told me a couple of days ago that there will be many saturdays of at least 2 and maybe 3 shifts. He was saying that we will be doing the majority of our repairs to equipment on sundays. He actually indicated that we may run 2 or 3 shifts as early as 17-Mar-2007. We will see shortly...

 

The one fact I am sure of is that 3x8(5 days) will not work long term for the maintenance infrastucture. Body and Paint do not have enough overspeed to recover from major breakdowns and the tire room absolutely does not have enough overspeed (with full tag relief, i.e. 8 hrs straight running) and will not run for 120 hrs. without downtime for repairs.

[40anout]

Earth to KTP

 

When gas reaches $3.00 plus per gallon all this 3 crew, 2 shift of tens and Saturdays will be history. You folks are dreaming. Quality of life. Do you think Ford cares about your quaility of life?

[rc38]

Earth to KTP

 

When gas reaches $3.00 plus per gallon all this 3 crew, 2 shift of tens and Saturdays will be history. You folks are dreaming. Quality of life. Do you think Ford cares about your quaility of life?

 

Geez thanks for your full of wisdom post. Why would gas go to $3.00 a gallon,the almighty democrats are now in power. Cheap gas for everyone. B)

 

Now back to the topic.

 

The union is talking with the management about the possible ways for crew realignment.

 

Still the three crew 4-10's for paint,body,and possibly final. Trim and Chassis would be 5-10's.

 

Of course this could all change knowing how Ford is,and yes the main reason being said is the breakdowns in paint and body. They don't have the ability to catch up with the current 5-8's.

 

What is going to happen to buyout release dates and TPT's is anybody's guess at this time. Not heard any credible info on this yet,my guess this hasn't really been gone over until the rest of the issues are resolved.

[KWMJ-KTP]

If ever they are going to go to 2-shifts, this year would be the year to do it, given that most people should be safe considering that we have the buy-outs. In addition, at our current 1700 employees per shift, in the event that they were to add tag relief, it would add about 245 tag relief jobs per shift, but that's if they were to do tag relief. I think they would need it to get the volume they want out of 2 shifts, but who knows what the market will call for 6 months from now?

 

As for when we would go to 2 crews, if it even happens at all, my bet would be when we return from shutdown. I do know that we currently have 8 Saturdays on the schedule, which 3 is supposed to be 1 shift and 5 will be 2 shifts. The first one is March 24, with two in each of March, April, May & June. I do not know which shifts are working though. I will point out that these Saturdays are on the schedule, but there is concern about rather our suppliers can keep up, since they are having trouble now, so they may have to cancel them due to parts shortages. I think those Saturdays are just to make up what we lost during the Navistar Engine shutdown, because we lost 13 shifts when that happened, and that is conveniently the number of shifts they have scheduled for Saturdays right now ((3x1)+(5x2)=13).

 

If I recall, the order bank this week was around 70,200, so unless they are expecting a big slowdown, 2 shifts will not work unless we alternate 50 & 60 hour weeks, probably with tag relief. Although, if the market tumbles, which given the state the housing market is in, it could end up slowing down a good bit. Definately a lot of uncertainty out there right now, both with in the company and the condition of the economy itself, so it's certainly a crap-shoot right now.

 

Also, if Ford wants to get more people to accept the buyout, cutting a shift would convince a lot of those currently on the fence about taking a buy-out to go ahead and accept it, I think. In addition, the prospect of potentially working alternating 5 and 6 day weeks on 10 hour shifts would probably scare more out the door too. I know a lot of the people that are signed up for the buyouts are uncertain what to do, and I understand how they feel, so it would be nice if we could just get a clear cut message about the company's intentions so that people can go ahead and decide what is going to be the best choice for them and their families to make. But getting the company to tell us anything that would be of some benefit to us is probably a slim chance. I just hope for the best for all involved, rather staying or leaving, no matter what happens to our schedule.

Edited March 14, 2007 by KWMJ-KTP

[big blue fury]

I'd like to see c crew with no time and a half , just straight 40 with shift premium. Beats 5 10 and every other saturday. If you have to work overtime , you are already behind. Let's stay ahead.

[big blue fury]

Several union reps saying 2 shifts. At the union meeting everything is supposed to stay the same. Heard the only other option on the table is 3 crews/ 4 10s , no overtime. If that is true I think the membership should vote on it. I hate not being able to get a straight answer good or bad. In the end it just turns more people away from Ford and the UAW. 5 10 days , every other sat makes no sense any way you look at it.

[KWMJ-KTP]

It looks as though nothing is definate, but the fact of the matter is that it is on the table and being considered as an option on our COA. From what I understand, Todd Bryant has told the union he wants the 2 shift set-up in "part" of the plant. I was told that at this point the union is not in favor of having different operating patterns for different parts of the plant, and believe that the whole plant should be on the same shift pattern, and I must say that I agree.

 

I know it was mentioned Paint & Body being on a 5-day 8-hour schedule on 3 shifts, and Trim being on 5-day 10-hour schedule on 2 shifts. I believe Engine, Frame and Chassis would run like Trim in this proposal, but it was not made clear. Seems kind of silly to have two operating patterns within one plant, but I guess if it means added security, it's worth looking at.

 

As I mentioned in an earlier post, it's hard to imagine them getting the volume they need this way, but if the economy continues to slide into a recession as it appears to be, and the housing market keeps going to shit, it may be possible that the Light Commercial Truck market could decline 10% or 15% or maybe more, and at that rate, the the proposed pattern might be enough to get what they need.

 

But back to the point, I was told to bet on there being a change coming soon, but what it is going to be has not been decided yet. From what I was told, Management & the UAW are still very early in the COA negotiations, but it was not expected to take too long to work out a deal. The good news is that at this point they believe that regardless on what is decided, there should not be anyone getting laid off, as we just wouldn't be filling in the positions of those who are taking the buy-out.

 

However it turns out, it will be interesting to see what they come up with. It sounds as though we will know something in April or maybe by April. As for when the agreement would be put into place, I guess that is yet to be negotiated.

Edited March 15, 2007 by KWMJ-KTP

[big blue fury]

I think the term "security" is being used too freely. It is only "security" when the company wants to change something. This plant and workforce has shown over and over that it can adjust and perform. We produce the most volume and have had the biggest quality improvement of any plant. I hope that 2 shifts is not implemented. Quality would be at risk , tension amongst union members would rise, and absenteeism would definately go up. I can already see lower senior people working favorable hours while the higher ones work their ass off missing everything going on in their family lives.

 

If we have to vote on the majority of the plant working 5 10s with possible every other sat. while the easiest departments have more favorable working schedule, I think it would fail. I would rather be laid off than live to work.

 

They can take that "security" and shove it up their ass. Sooner or later this union will have to stop voting on the fear of losing people or being closed. This membership has earned a little say so in what should happen. We have to stand for something eventually, but by then it will be too late. 5 10s making $5 less an hour is for the birds. "Security" or not.

[Zora]

The Company has come to the table with some depts going to 2 crews, some staying on 3. Nothing set in stone yet. But I'm sure it's coming....do not see how they will pull this off without some kind of layoff. They will be lucky if half the people that signed up for the buyout take it.

[fantasyfrank]

Does anybody have any info on flowback for KTP??

[big blue fury]

Just heard a rumor that C crew will possibly be coming back with 15% shift premium on sat and no time and a half. Supposedly word is getting out about 2 shifts and members are getting pissed about who is where and who is working what. All high seniority wants to get off at 3 and work 40hrs not 50.

[hendew_15]

Does anybody have any info on flowback for KTP??

Don't look good for Flowback if these "Rumors" come true.