Rob_K Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 I think one of the fundamental action items that need to be addressed in an effort to regain market share is a revamping of the dealer network. I've had numerous Ford products in the past and each time I purchased I ended up visiting multiple dealers before I found one I could tolerate. Yes, I did say tolerate. For my latest purchase, I decided on an '07 Mustang GT. Thanks to a well connected friend in Dearborn I had my x-plan PIN in my pocket and a copy of the '07 order guide so I knew all the codes and knew what had been added with Job 2. So, I went to my local dealer to see if a car they had in stock would suit my needs. It was close, but not quite there. They offered to order one, so that's what we did. This is where it got ridiculous. For starters, the salesmanager thinks he's the smartest man alive. Even though I walked in with an order guide under my arm and a list of all the order codes I was looking to get, it took four hours to complete the transaction. At first I wasn't able to deal directly with the sales manager (only one that new how to use Concepts). The poor salesman had to be a go between. I had a few new options from Job 2 as well as some VPC center installed accessories. The sales manager flagged some of these options and said I couldn't get them on a Mustang. I knew otherwise and was insistent. It finally got to the point I walked over the guy's desk and demanded he enter the darn codes as I had typed them up. To his amazement it took all of them. Throughout this whole process he was a total jerk and basically treated me like an idiot. They literally couldn't have had an easier sale. Now, here's where things got worse. He gave me a copy of a VOC to sign off on once he entered everything I wanted correctly (3rd try by the way). It wasn't until weeks later I realized the VOC they had given me was bogus, created just to get the pricing nailed down. So, when I stopped in to check on the status I learned the car had been serialized. I also found he had mis-entered one of the options. He insisted it could be fixed and days later confirmed it had been fixed. All the while I had my friend in Dearborn checking it in DORA and the error was still present. After a week and a half they finally admitted their mistake and offered to re-order. This time I stood over the salesmanagers shoulder and INSISTED that he enter the actual order on the spot, not a bogus one as he had before. The next day I realized he included California emissions (I'm in PA - an EPA border state). I requested that he remove it and he insisted it was required. After some research and again referencing the order guide I determined it is optional in border states. I finally was able to convince him to remove it when I pointed out that NONE of the cars in his inventory had it. So, long story short, after two attempts I'm finally getting my new Mustang. Now, if mine was an isolated incident I would simply right it off as a random issue. But I spend a lot of time on internet forums and it seems this is happening a lot. There were some many things that I knew about that the dealer had no clue about. As I mentioned at the beginning, I knew exactly what I wanted and did all the homework/leg work for them. If I had so many issues with my best case scenario, what must be happening to all the less informed folks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Don't ya just shake your head and almost laugh at business's that seem to be TRYING to lose your business with them??? In this day and age you have to be a smart consumer just to have a fighting chance to try and wade through the red tape and runarounds you find at a lot of business's out there. You would think that your story and the countless other ones out there would have reached someone's ears in Dearborn and that they would perhaps have the sense to re-examine their dealership network. Won't do any good to have a refreshed, exciting product lineup if the people you have selling it are a bunch of morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sim Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 There were some many things that I knew about that the dealer had no clue about. As I mentioned at the beginning, I knew exactly what I wanted and did all the homework/leg work for them. If I had so many issues with my best case scenario, what must be happening to all the less informed folks? Well the issue here is that the dealers are trained to deal with the general population, who dont have the x-plan (i didnt know about it until i came here), or the order guide, or bother researching on the internet. They see something nice on the TV, or in a rag/paper and go along to see what it is all about. They see the sticker, dont know the dealer invoice pricing only MSRP, have no idea what financing they might qualify for or get a quote from other institutions and start talking to the salesman. I read somewhere that this might be the case for up to 80/90% of all car sales. Its like lambs to the slaughter. We visited 4 Ford dealerships, as well as a few others brands before we purchased our Edge (which i hadnt seen an ad for - just found it in the market when we started looking at what was in the segment that interested us). I checked around online, did all the background stuff on my potential cars and my old car as well. I spoke with various salesmen at each place and each one had varying levels of knowledge. Some said they had to take a test on features and specs of each car before they were allowed to sell it. Again we still had a few questions and very few people knew any kind of answers until i checked again online. We had our Edge shipped down from Atlanta to Orlando as there wasnt one in the entire state that met our needs - according to the Ford dealer list they had or the one online. By the time it got here (about four days later) and we went in to pick up and sort out the last few bits of paperwork, the finance lady said that she didnt think she'd need to do any explaining on the car as we had a reputation as being experts on the car already, but she'd do it as it was part of the deal! It was quite odd to hear that though and knowing how few others do the same kind of research into something that might cost half the annual household salary and would take a year or four to pay off - a major ding in anyone's budget! But people do it all blindly so often. When a salesman is given a person who knows what they are talking about, i think it throws them off balance, either they cant get quite the deal they were hoping for, or else their candor and "knowledge" dont wow the customer - they are lost as to what to do next, how do they deal with you???? Rather than just take you how you are, they can only go back into typical sales mode and do it their way, treating you like an idiot. Our salesman at the fourth place we visited, mostly understood that and let us be, trying to find us our car and sorting out things as we asked for them. I think that due to this dealer generally working with fleet managers on pick-up and big work trucks (they also sell pick-up and drill rig trucks to my company), they have gotten into doing what the customer wants without letting the ego control, that is why they got our business - they also found the one in GA, whereas the others just kept saying they couldnt find jack in FL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_K Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 Well the issue here is that the dealers are trained to deal with the general population, who dont have the x-plan (i didnt know about it until i came here), or the order guide, or bother researching on the internet. They see something nice on the TV, or in a rag/paper and go along to see what it is all about. They see the sticker, dont know the dealer invoice pricing only MSRP, have no idea what financing they might qualify for or get a quote from other institutions and start talking to the salesman. I read somewhere that this might be the case for up to 80/90% of all car sales. Its like lambs to the slaughter. We visited 4 Ford dealerships, as well as a few others brands before we purchased our Edge (which i hadnt seen an ad for - just found it in the market when we started looking at what was in the segment that interested us). I checked around online, did all the background stuff on my potential cars and my old car as well. I spoke with various salesmen at each place and each one had varying levels of knowledge. Some said they had to take a test on features and specs of each car before they were allowed to sell it. Again we still had a few questions and very few people knew any kind of answers until i checked again online. We had our Edge shipped down from Atlanta to Orlando as there wasnt one in the entire state that met our needs - according to the Ford dealer list they had or the one online. By the time it got here (about four days later) and we went in to pick up and sort out the last few bits of paperwork, the finance lady said that she didnt think she'd need to do any explaining on the car as we had a reputation as being experts on the car already, but she'd do it as it was part of the deal! It was quite odd to hear that though and knowing how few others do the same kind of research into something that might cost half the annual household salary and would take a year or four to pay off - a major ding in anyone's budget! But people do it all blindly so often. When a salesman is given a person who knows what they are talking about, i think it throws them off balance, either they cant get quite the deal they were hoping for, or else their candor and "knowledge" dont wow the customer - they are lost as to what to do next, how do they deal with you???? Rather than just take you how you are, they can only go back into typical sales mode and do it their way, treating you like an idiot. Our salesman at the fourth place we visited, mostly understood that and let us be, trying to find us our car and sorting out things as we asked for them. I think that due to this dealer generally working with fleet managers on pick-up and big work trucks (they also sell pick-up and drill rig trucks to my company), they have gotten into doing what the customer wants without letting the ego control, that is why they got our business - they also found the one in GA, whereas the others just kept saying they couldnt find jack in FL! I actually was very pleased with the salesman. He immediately recognized I was not the average customer and adapted to that fact very quickly. It was the sales manager that was such a challenge. The salesman himself was getting very upset because of the BS that was being delivered. It literally was as if he didn't have time to "deal" with me. It honestly should have been at most a 30 minute transaction. Instead it ended up being 4 hours of torture. When they got the first order wrong, I initially was going to pull my deposit and go to another dealer, but I stuck with them for the salesman's sake because he really was making an effort to make things right. As stated above, having the best portfolio of products on the planet will do little good if the dealers are chasing customers away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 not defending the sales person in the slightest but I am going to give you mustang experts a different perspective......as a sales person for over 20 years I see this day in and day out....realise as Mustang customers you are researching ONE vehicle as the way YOU desire it....just look at the guide...do you see how many different ways YOUR Mustang can be ordered...mind boggling isn't it! Now..probably about 6 -8 different ways correct ? now add to that as premium and deluxe versions....and this is a Mustang...one of the simpler ordering guides. now add Focus, fusion, Taurus, taurus X, Ranger, F150, 250, 350, 450 in std super and Crewcabs with 5.4, V10...Diesels...and ARRRRRRRRG! While i understand where you are coming from please empathise with the sales dept...what used to be easy to memorise ...is now IMPOSSIBLE....customers educate me all the time...they are focused on one product and one product only...hell of a lot easier..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_K Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 not defending the sales person in the slightest but I am going to give you mustang experts a different perspective......as a sales person for over 20 years I see this day in and day out....realise as Mustang customers you are researching ONE vehicle as the way YOU desire it....just look at the guide...do you see how many different ways YOUR Mustang can be ordered...mind boggling isn't it! Now..probably about 6 -8 different ways correct ? now add to that as premium and deluxe versions....and this is a Mustang...one of the simpler ordering guides. now add Focus, fusion, Taurus, taurus X, Ranger, F150, 250, 350, 450 in std super and Crewcabs with 5.4, V10...Diesels...and ARRRRRRRRG! While i understand where you are coming from please empathise with the sales dept...what used to be easy to memorise ...is now IMPOSSIBLE....customers educate me all the time...they are focused on one product and one product only...hell of a lot easier..... Dean, I agree with you 100%. There are WAY too many options/codes to remember for the whole line. I think I recall that there are litterally thousands of combinations you can spec out for the F-series alone! My beef is with the sales manager treating his sales guys like lakeys and customers like morons. As I mentioned above, I had already listed out the options I wanted by order code. He literally had to enter the codes and type in my name - done. Instead he insisted on arguing that I didn't know what I was talking about regarding the options I had selected. You're absolutely right that an educated customer who has spent a bunch of time researching a particular model will definitely be better versed than the salesman that needs to know the whole line up, and quite honestly likely sells 9 cars off the lot for every 10 sold. Egos need to be set aside and ears need to open to realize "hey this guy has done his homework" and simply make sure that he's on the right track. Taking an "here comes another idiot who did research on the internet" attitude does nothing but drive customers away. I can't bash sales guys as that's MY profession! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 Dean, I agree with you 100%. There are WAY too many options/codes to remember for the whole line. I think I recall that there are litterally thousands of combinations you can spec out for the F-series alone! My beef is with the sales manager treating his sales guys like lakeys and customers like morons. As I mentioned above, I had already listed out the options I wanted by order code. He literally had to enter the codes and type in my name - done. Instead he insisted on arguing that I didn't know what I was talking about regarding the options I had selected. You're absolutely right that an educated customer who has spent a bunch of time researching a particular model will definitely be better versed than the salesman that needs to know the whole line up, and quite honestly likely sells 9 cars off the lot for every 10 sold. Egos need to be set aside and ears need to open to realize "hey this guy has done his homework" and simply make sure that he's on the right track. Taking an "here comes another idiot who did research on the internet" attitude does nothing but drive customers away. I can't bash sales guys as that's MY profession! shhhhhhh, why is it that the people that have Managerial titles NEVER seem to have people skills???????? We had a GSM here that was a total hitler re-incarnate...and THAT is being nice...there is NO place in a people business like this for people like THAT! Seems you met one...and what pi$$es me off is it is those types of morons that basically give the business a majority of its bad rap and pre-conceptions...hope you got handled...personally I LOVE X-plans and educated customers...saves me a BUNCH of time and everything is above board... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_K Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 shhhhhhh, why is it that the people that have Managerial titles NEVER seem to have people skills???????? We had a GSM here that was a total hitler re-incarnate...and THAT is being nice...there is NO place in a people business like this for people like THAT! Seems you met one...and what pi$$es me off is it is those types of morons that basically give the business a majority of its bad rap and pre-conceptions...hope you got handled...personally I LOVE X-plans and educated customers...saves me a BUNCH of time and everything is above board... They did finally take care of me when I reordered, but I insisted that the salesman go pick up some lunch while I had some "quality time" with the sales manager. I hovered over his shoulder while he entered the order. There was no way I would let him screw up the order a second time around. I also made it a point to let him know that his customer service skills were absolutely awful. While I never purchased from this particular store, I had family and friends who had. All had some sort of tale to tell and it all led back to this one guy. They all cringed when I told them I ordered my car there. I did it out of convenience since pricing wasn't an issue. I can't believe the GM or owner hadn't done anything about him over all the years he's been there. He must be the owner's son in law or something. The worst thing he had pulled was repairing a significantly damaged Mustang and selling it as new. He sold it to one of my technicians. I actually discovered a run in the paint on one of the fenders, then realized the VIN sticker was missing and the fender liner was new. The hood was also missing the VIN sticker. Upon closer scrutiny I could see the fender, hood and passenger side back to a blend in the rear quarter had been painted. I told my tech to go back and ask what the heck these guys were trying to pull. The GM immediately intercepted the conversation, admitted they sold the car by accident, then immediately offered another car and $5,000 cash to keep things quiet. And yes, this same sales manager was the guy who said, sure it's for sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanh Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 They did finally take care of me when I reordered, but I insisted that the salesman go pick up some lunch while I had some "quality time" with the sales manager. I hovered over his shoulder while he entered the order. There was no way I would let him screw up the order a second time around. I also made it a point to let him know that his customer service skills were absolutely awful. While I never purchased from this particular store, I had family and friends who had. All had some sort of tale to tell and it all led back to this one guy. They all cringed when I told them I ordered my car there. I did it out of convenience since pricing wasn't an issue. I can't believe the GM or owner hadn't done anything about him over all the years he's been there. He must be the owner's son in law or something. The worst thing he had pulled was repairing a significantly damaged Mustang and selling it as new. He sold it to one of my technicians. I actually discovered a run in the paint on one of the fenders, then realized the VIN sticker was missing and the fender liner was new. The hood was also missing the VIN sticker. Upon closer scrutiny I could see the fender, hood and passenger side back to a blend in the rear quarter had been painted. I told my tech to go back and ask what the heck these guys were trying to pull. The GM immediately intercepted the conversation, admitted they sold the car by accident, then immediately offered another car and $5,000 cash to keep things quiet. And yes, this same sales manager was the guy who said, sure it's for sale. needs to be reported to the DMV...guys like this are responsible for a lot of the business's bad reputation, and they NEED to be held accountable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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