CAW will give Ford cuts

[stapelec]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2009/...974401-sun.html

 

So what do you think, does Scott Smith have the fortitude to stand up to National if Ford says no change at STAP????? Example, no new product for STAP, but you now have an extension to 2012 in exchange for more concessions.

[stapelec]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2009/...974401-sun.html

 

So what do you think, does Scott Smith have the fortitude to stand up to National if Ford says no change at STAP????? Example, no new product for STAP, but you now have an extension to 2012 in exchange for more concessions.

 

 

Oh!!!! And that will be an extension based on Market Conditions. In others words we won't get anything, but will be giving back more.

[Jaah]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2009/...974401-sun.html

 

So what do you think, does Scott Smith have the fortitude to stand up to National if Ford says no change at STAP????? Example, no new product for STAP, but you now have an extension to 2012 in exchange for more concessions.

 

 

He has said he won't support concessions without a new product for STAP, if he says otherwise now it would destroy his credibility not to mention his integrety. An extension to 2012 is still only 2011 if they they are referring to model year. The question that needs to be answered is... What kind of comitment is good enough, a verbal promise or wriitten language? Neither is a garrantee but gettiing it in writing would alieve some of my concerns.

 

 

NO PRODUCT!...... NO CONCESSIONS!....... VOTE NO!

[Charged92]

does Scott Smith have the fortitude to stand up to National

 

Yes.

[stapelec]

Yes.

 

 

Soooo...What you're saying is....When it comes time for 1520 to ratify the same agreement that CAW GM employess ratified. If there's no new product for STAP, Scott Smith will reccomend to 1520 members that we reject the tentitive agreement?????

[stapelec]

Yes.

 

 

Or will he say "This is the best you're going to get, you guys decide".

[GuyfromSTAP]

Not a huge fan of Scott's but he's made it very known that he won't support an agreement without product.That said by the time it comes to us to ratify I'm not sure the elections won't have passed already and who knows if Scott is re-elected.

[gocash]

Not a huge fan of Scott's but he's made it very known that he won't support an agreement without product.That said by the time it comes to us to ratify I'm not sure the elections won't have passed already and who knows if Scott is re-elected.

I hope Scott does stick to his guns,CAW NATIONAL isn't going to bat for STAP,that has be shown to us for awhile now.Our Local 1520 leaders have the power to reject concessions,and hopefully the membership votes NO if it comes to a ratification vote....CAW National is only interested in themselves in my opinion....I think most of us would accept concessions for something in return,and I'm not talking about any promises by Ford.We have learned from the past 2 contracts that Ford doesn't bargain in good faith anymore....It's time for us to know what our fate is officially from Ford...Why don't you just let us know one way or the other???Mulally,if you are a man of integrity,why don't you just be honest to the hard working employees at the St.Thomas Assembly Plant....If STAP has no future then at least let us know this and we'll continue building your very profitable products til the very last day under the contract we have in place today.Is this too much to ask??

[iluvnascar]

A vote as suggested by CAW leadership at least keeps the door open a crack. A "NO" vote will just give Ford more reason to assume that St. Thomas employees are uncooperative and not deserving of a new product (or even a product extension).

 

With the problems that GM and Chrysler have, there's always a chance that some of St. Thomas' fleet competition may not be around - and so St. Thomas needs to do everything possible to show mgmt that employees are "on the team".

 

These are very difficult times....

[electrocutioner]

I hope Scott does stick to his guns,CAW NATIONAL isn't going to bat for STAP,that has be shown to us for awhile now.Our Local 1520 leaders have the power to reject concessions,and hopefully the membership votes NO if it comes to a ratification vote....CAW National is only interested in themselves in my opinion....I think most of us would accept concessions for something in return,and I'm not talking about any promises by Ford.We have learned from the past 2 contracts that Ford doesn't bargain in good faith anymore....It's time for us to know what our fate is officially from Ford...Why don't you just let us know one way or the other???Mulally,if you are a man of integrity,why don't you just be honest to the hard working employees at the St.Thomas Assembly Plant....If STAP has no future then at least let us know this and we'll continue building your very profitable products til the very last day under the contract we have in place today.Is this too much to ask??

 

I had been sitting out on the fence until this week when I saw two national governments put the screws to autoworkers at a time when we are down.

 

As far as I am now concerned, there is no evidence that any of this is going to help anybody.Until the market changes,the car companies are going to keep loosing money and when things do turn around there is no chance of getting these things back for a long time to come.

 

We have a legally binding contract good until September 2011-it's not much of a contract,but it is ours. Just like Mulally said when first asked to take a pay cut,I think we are good where we are.

[gocash]

A vote as suggested by CAW leadership at least keeps the door open a crack. A "NO" vote will just give Ford more reason to assume that St. Thomas employees are uncooperative and not deserving of a new product (or even a product extension).

 

With the problems that GM and Chrysler have, there's always a chance that some of St. Thomas' fleet competition may not be around - and so St. Thomas needs to do everything possible to show mgmt that employees are "on the team".

 

These are very difficult times....

I guess you are part sheep nascar,we can still give concessions down the road when/if Ford wants to bring something to the table.STAP workers are not uncooperative ,but we are sick and tired of the bullshit...Why give anything back,when we have a contract?? Our plant is very profitable to Ford and the current contract we have with the few employees we have remaining isn't going to break FOMOCO....You should get a grip of the reality at STAP instead of putting more doubt in STAP workers minds..Another year to fight another day is obviously what you believe...Well another contract extension to 2012 with more concessions does nothing for us but make Ford more profit...The day has come for us to fight for knowledge of Ford's intentions now,not later as you suggest.

[end of time]

I guess you are part sheep nascar,we can still give concessions down the road when/if Ford wants to bring something to the table.STAP workers are not uncooperative ,but we are sick and tired of the bullshit...Why give anything back,when we have a contract?? Our plant is very profitable to Ford and the current contract we have with the few employees we have remaining isn't going to break FOMOCO....You should get a grip of the reality at STAP instead of putting more doubt in STAP workers minds..Another year to fight another day is obviously what you believe...Well another contract extension to 2012 with more concessions does nothing for us but make Ford more profit...The day has come for us to fight for knowledge of Ford's intentions now,not later as you suggest.

So, true

[the prisoner]

well canada welcome to the real world us got told not enough product for all plants and there stll promising unknown products to a few of the us plants. BASICALLY WE ARE ALL FUCKED. Ford is shopping plant against plant tax incentives whatever they get. Sorry st thomas But ford fucked you when they never updated the crown vic sorry . Vote and good luck just be glad you are not chrysler.

[GuyfromSTAP]

I guess you are part sheep nascar,we can still give concessions down the road when/if Ford wants to bring something to the table.STAP workers are not uncooperative ,but we are sick and tired of the bullshit...Why give anything back,when we have a contract?? Our plant is very profitable to Ford and the current contract we have with the few employees we have remaining isn't going to break FOMOCO....You should get a grip of the reality at STAP instead of putting more doubt in STAP workers minds..Another year to fight another day is obviously what you believe...Well another contract extension to 2012 with more concessions does nothing for us but make Ford more profit...The day has come for us to fight for knowledge of Ford's intentions now,not later as you suggest.

 

Nascar is a retiree gocash....his views are out of touch to the younger workers still at STAP.I'm an older guy now compared to alot(25 years) and totally agree with the stance that it's our time to know our future.STAP has shown over the last 20 years of profit their dedication to Ford and it's now our turn to be treated with respect.I think most of us just want to know what our future holds,not much to ask after giving,giving and more giving since 2001.We don't want another year,we want a future for our younger brothers and sisters at STAP and sometimes you need to be ready to draw a line to get that.

[gocash]

Nascar is a retiree gocash....his views are out of touch to the younger workers still at STAP.I'm an older guy now compared to alot(25 years) and totally agree with the stance that it's our time to know our future.STAP has shown over the last 20 years of profit their dedication to Ford and it's now our turn to be treated with respect.I think most of us just want to know what our future holds,not much to ask after giving,giving and more giving since 2001.We don't want another year,we want a future for our younger brothers and sisters at STAP and sometimes you need to be ready to draw a line to get that.

Well said Guy,well said.

[stapelec]

Nascar is a retiree gocash....his views are out of touch to the younger workers still at STAP.I'm an older guy now compared to alot(25 years) and totally agree with the stance that it's our time to know our future.STAP has shown over the last 20 years of profit their dedication to Ford and it's now our turn to be treated with respect.I think most of us just want to know what our future holds,not much to ask after giving,giving and more giving since 2001.We don't want another year,we want a future for our younger brothers and sisters at STAP and sometimes you need to be ready to draw a line to get that.

 

 

I couldn't agree more, now is the time to know our future. If we're closing, tell us and start negiatating a closing agreement.

[gocash]

http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/Business/2009/...974401-sun.html

 

So what do you think, does Scott Smith have the fortitude to stand up to National if Ford says no change at STAP????? Example, no new product for STAP, but you now have an extension to 2012 in exchange for more concessions.

I think that if CAW 1520 union leadership is against concessions without commitment from Ford,and Ken Lewenza is aware of this,and then publicly offers Ford the same concessions as the new GM deal,then Ken Lewenza should be removed from his position as CAW NATIONAL president. It seems obvious he isn't working in the best interest of ALL CAW MEMBERS to me.

[ute]

stay strong STAP if i was there still i would vote NO unless there is something in writing

 

Scott will probably do what national tells him ...to save his own ass and go to the national position

 

 

 

as i said before Proudfoot was the man to have at this point

 

 

 

 

the bad thing about this is that the national does not need 1520 a majority vote will come from the other locals

[GuyfromSTAP]

the bad thing about this is that the national does not need 1520 a majority vote will come from the other locals

 

I'm not sure Ute...OAC voted the last set of concessions down so I doubt their vote if it did pass would be very strong in favour.We'd definately need a well organized no vote at STAP.It sure would be nice to know what the future has in store so as that stress can be rectified one way or the other for STAP employees.

[stapelec]

I think that if CAW 1520 union leadership is against concessions without commitment from Ford,and Ken Lewenza is aware of this,and then publicly offers Ford the same concessions as the new GM deal,then Ken Lewenza should be removed from his position as CAW NATIONAL president. It seems obvious he isn't working in the best interest of ALL CAW MEMBERS to me.

 

 

From what I was told by a union rep, STAP's position was made perfectly clear at the deligates meeting in Toronto back in Febuary. There will be no concessions from STAP if there is no new product.

 

I also read on facebook that Ken Lewenza said STAP was closing at an Oakville Union meeting. He told the group it wasn't to leave this room. Don't know if this is true but it wouldn't surprise me.

[gocash]

From what I was told by a union rep, STAP's position was made perfectly clear at the deligates meeting in Toronto back in Febuary. There will be no concessions from STAP if there is no new product.

 

I also read on facebook that Ken Lewenza said STAP was closing at an Oakville Union meeting. He told the group it wasn't to leave this room. Don't know if this is true but it wouldn't surprise me.

What you read on Facebook has apparently been denied by the Lewenza camp.I personally believe it was said,but not being at that meeting I can't confirm it.More than 3 people have told me that he did make those remarks,and they attended the Local 707 meeting that Sunday.Who really knows what the truth is.

[xstapr]

Ken is using Ford as a pawn, so he can bring Chrysler in line and accept the GM pattern.

Having Ford and GM under his belt puts more pressure on chrysler to sign. He is not looking out for STAPs welfare, we at STAP need to look after our own welfare. No product= No concessions. When it comes time to vote at STAP. I encourage all NO voters to stay strong because the national will have it's hard sell tactics in top gear. We had the "Perfect Storm" speech. Now get ready for the "Perfecter Storm" speech.

[gocash]

Ken is using Ford as a pawn, so he can bring Chrysler in line and accept the GM pattern.

Having Ford and GM under his belt puts more pressure on chrysler to sign. He is not looking out for STAPs welfare, we at STAP need to look after our own welfare. No product= No concessions. When it comes time to vote at STAP. I encourage all NO voters to stay strong because the national will have it's hard sell tactics in top gear. We had the "Perfect Storm" speech. Now get ready for the "Perfecter Storm" speech.

You don't have to try and convince me that is exactly what is happening.What kind of CAW NATIONAL leader do we have??In my opinion he is willing to sacrifice STAP and all of it's members for Chrysler to sign.Chrysler is either merging or going bankrupt or leaving Canada,nothing he's going to be able to change.

[itsme]

The 20% figure for Canada's share of the NA market has been thrown around lately. I expect you will hear at some point that Ford has agreed to keep 20% of its north american production in Canada and the union will try to sell that to us as a product guarantee for STAP. Do the math, 9 million is a high end forecast for total sales this year, 13% of that (being optimistic here) is Fords share of the market or 1,170,000 and 20% of Fords market share equals 234,000 or 1 plant at full production. If this is the way they sell it to us I guess my only question would be .."Does OAC know its closing?" :shades: sarcasm

 

There are still a lot of people at STAP who don't see the finality of our situation and will vote for concessions. I urge all STAP'ers to talk to anyone that will listen and urge them to fight for our plant not next contract but NOW! We need a NO vote to concessions without a product guarantee, there may not be another chance. Show Ford and out union we want a future or negotiate a closure contract for us.

[gocash]

The 20% figure for Canada's share of the NA market has been thrown around lately. I expect you will hear at some point that Ford has agreed to keep 20% of its north american production in Canada and the union will try to sell that to us as a product guarantee for STAP. Do the math, 9 million is a high end forecast for total sales this year, 13% of that (being optimistic here) is Fords share of the market or 1,170,000 and 20% of Fords market share equals 234,000 or 1 plant at full production. If this is the way they sell it to us I guess my only question would be .."Does OAC know its closing?" :shades: sarcasm

 

There are still a lot of people at STAP who don't see the finality of our situation and will vote for concessions. I urge all STAP'ers to talk to anyone that will listen and urge them to fight for our plant not next contract but NOW! We need a NO vote to concessions without a product guarantee, there may not be another chance. Show Ford and out union we want a future or negotiate a closure contract for us.

I couldn't have said it better myself.Well said.