How stupid is the UAW going to look

[Hvcpicker]

you know i wonder a few things.

Why did the right leaners only get upset with Bush for his spending policies in America? I recall conservative outrage over the proposed rebuilding of New Orleans, but little outrage over the money spent to rebuild Afghanistsan or Iraq.

 

Second, why is it that the right and right leaning showed such patience with Bush over his failure to place good policy decisions in front of his own loyalty to individuals (Rummie), but repeatedly attack Obama for any such show of loyalty.

 

As for spending it could be the answer, certainly there are many with much brighter economic minds than either of us who feel it is. (as there is against).

 

:reading: Ah , my friend we meet again.....How do you know there is no outrage about new orleans and just a note wasnt that state run by the left? :shades: I know.....the buck stops with the pres'. It does and he certainly didnt handle that right! That was Fucked up on Both sides but we give the chocolate city mayor and landreux a pass i guess right? :shades: Secondly , when , not if , but when obama goes to war and has to rebuild whatever he fucks up ill back him.....wars outside my countries limits is where my politics stops ...even with a pres i didnt elect! we can sort out any mistakes when its over....the left i dont think subscribes to the same theory...just something im wondering :shades:

as for the economics .....usually no matter what the pres does , outside of nationalizing everything, effects the free market except the free market. Government out , free market in. But hey , im just a poster on this prestegious site! :happy feet:

[Die Wahrheit]

:reading: Ah , my friend we meet again.....How do you know there is no outrage about new orleans and just a note wasnt that state run by the left? :shades: I know.....the buck stops with the pres'. It does and he certainly didnt handle that right! That was Fucked up on Both sides but we give the chocolate city mayor and landreux a pass i guess right? :shades: Secondly , when , not if , but when obama goes to war and has to rebuild whatever he fucks up ill back him.....wars outside my countries limits is where my politics stops ...even with a pres i didnt elect! we can sort out any mistakes when its over....the left i dont think subscribes to the same theory...just something im wondering :shades:

as for the economics .....usually no matter what the pres does , outside of nationalizing everything, effects the free market except the free market. Government out , free market in. But hey , im just a poster on this prestegious site! :happy feet:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/04/...ions/index.html

This is what happens when you have an educated President in office. You learn that you don't have to be afraid to talk to people and hear their side. Obama is going to give America a new look and a new found respect. Them days of the war loving right are over. The Republicans are so afraid of things and people they don't understand that war is always on their teabagging lips.

[fordworker]

 

 

 

after your other post on here i think we know that your problems with bush go deeper than his policies? :shades: discussion is useful and this is the place for ALL opinions. bush made HUGE mistakes and we who lean , yes lean , right were fed up with him and his spending. Hence Pres. Obama will get the same cry from us, or at least me, . check my posts ford, i just gave the Pres. credit for the banks starting to loosen up. I HOPE this dude succeeds but not this way. spending is not the answer. But hey , im just one of those WHITE boys you spoke of on another post. Your better than that man , come on get over it! By the way , i will post whatever BS i like , whenever i like dude. Settle down :reading:

[Die Wahrheit]

 

"Spending is not the way" Spoken like a true Republican, you know whats not the way but don't know whats the way. During the great depression the majority of the economist agree that the reason it lasted as long as it did was because spending was halted. Does it ever make you wonder why these individuals who are experts in economics don't agree on the same solution? You would think that there is a right way to correct an economy. THERE ISN'T. Thats because when you study economics it doesn't teaches you to forsee or even gives you a right answer on how to deal with critical events when they happen. what they will do is try all sorts of different methods to try and stop a recession or a depression when it happens or continuing. Don't you think if they had all the answers then they would know what exactly what to do. Its all trial by error. With me having studied economics I know this for a fact. But can you tell me how do you know that spendiing is not the way? Or can you tell me what is the way? Thats why you always hear the FED saying we gone lower rates if that dont work they lower them again. No one gets credit for forseeing this recession about to happen, when all these so called brian childs started screaming recession we were already in it.

[fordworker]

"Spending is not the way" Spoken like a true Republican, you know whats not the way but don't know whats the way. During the great depression the majority of the economist agree that the reason it lasted as long as it did was because spending was halted. Does it ever make you wonder why these individuals who are experts in economics don't agree on the same solution? You would think that there is a right way to correct an economy. THERE ISN'T. Thats because when you study economics it doesn't teaches you to forsee or even gives you a right answer on how to deal with critical events when they happen. what they will do is try all sorts of different methods to try and stop a recession or a depression when it happens or continuing. Don't you think if they had all the answers then they would know what exactly what to do. Its all trial by error. With me having studied economics I know this for a fact. But can you tell me how do you know that spendiing is not the way? Or can you tell me what is the way? Thats why you always hear the FED saying we gone lower rates if that dont work they lower them again. No one gets credit for forseeing this recession about to happen, when all these so called brian childs started screaming recession we were already in it.

And this recession started in NOV of 2007 and the bush administration fixed the numbers so it showed no recession until oct 08 but before they left office they admitted it started in 2007. They lied to help the old man get elected...... and when it did not work they had to admit it

It was Bushg who said over and over in 2000 that we have to be careful with the peoples money He was careful alright he carefully GAVE it to the SUPER RICH who then took that money and off shored it and took American jobs with them

Thats why were in a depression

[kpc655]

"Spending is not the way" Spoken like a true Republican, you know whats not the way but don't know whats the way. During the great depression the majority of the economist agree that the reason it lasted as long as it did was because spending was halted. Does it ever make you wonder why these individuals who are experts in economics don't agree on the same solution? You would think that there is a right way to correct an economy. THERE ISN'T. Thats because when you study economics it doesn't teaches you to forsee or even gives you a right answer on how to deal with critical events when they happen. what they will do is try all sorts of different methods to try and stop a recession or a depression when it happens or continuing. Don't you think if they had all the answers then they would know what exactly what to do. Its all trial by error. With me having studied economics I know this for a fact. But can you tell me how do you know that spendiing is not the way? Or can you tell me what is the way? Thats why you always hear the FED saying we gone lower rates if that dont work they lower them again. No one gets credit for forseeing this recession about to happen, when all these so called brian childs started screaming recession we were already in it.

 

Revisionist history at it's best (or worst).

 

What flavor is the kool-aid today?

Edited April 21, 2009 by kpc655

[fordworker]

"Spending is not the way" Spoken like a true Republican, you know whats not the way but don't know whats the way. During the great depression the majority of the economist agree that the reason it lasted as long as it did was because spending was halted. Does it ever make you wonder why these individuals who are experts in economics don't agree on the same solution? You would think that there is a right way to correct an economy. THERE ISN'T. Thats because when you study economics it doesn't teaches you to forsee or even gives you a right answer on how to deal with critical events when they happen. what they will do is try all sorts of different methods to try and stop a recession or a depression when it happens or continuing. Don't you think if they had all the answers then they would know what exactly what to do. Its all trial by error. With me having studied economics I know this for a fact. But can you tell me how do you know that spendiing is not the way? Or can you tell me what is the way? Thats why you always hear the FED saying we gone lower rates if that dont work they lower them again. No one gets credit for forseeing this recession about to happen, when all these so called brian childs started screaming recession we were already in it.

If your economy depends on people spending money then spending is the way to get out of a recession common sence.....

Oh I know lets cut taxes on the top 2% AGAIN and that will trickle down and spur economic growth

What was it Bush SR. kept saying of that theory oh ya he said it was "VOODOO Economics" and he was right

[condor]

If your economy depends on people spending money then spending is the way to get out of a recession common sence.....

Oh I know lets cut taxes on the top 2% AGAIN and that will trickle down and spur economic growth

What was it Bush SR. kept saying of that theory oh ya he said it was "VOODOO Economics" and he was right

 

Cutting taxes creates jobs. Job creation stimulates the economy. Quit crying about the top 2%. Jesus 39% of americans don't even pay taxes. How fucked up is that. "Share the wealth" but don't share the burden. Don't worry the "Messiah Obama" will save us all and its all going to be FREE.

[Die Wahrheit]

Cutting taxes creates jobs. Job creation stimulates the economy. Quit crying about the top 2%. Jesus 39% of americans don't even pay taxes. How fucked up is that. "Share the wealth" but don't share the burden. Don't worry the "Messiah Obama" will save us all and its all going to be FREE.

 

Cutting taxes DOES NOT create jobs (Thats nonsense). A good product that consumers want to buy creates jobs. Do you think that a company hires you because they are nice? NO! They hire because they have a product thats in demand and they know that they can make more money from selling the product than what they pay their employee to make the product...

[kpc655]

Cutting taxes DOES NOT create jobs (Thats nonsense). A good product that consumers want to buy creates jobs. Do you think that a company hires you because they are nice? NO! They hire because they have a product thats in demand and they know that they can make more money from selling the product than what they pay their employee to make the product...

 

Taxes, particularly those tied directly to employment, effect company staffing. For every worker hired there's an additional 20%-40% (avg) internal cost. Every businss owner takes this into account before hiring.

 

This effects the COGS portion of the income statement.

 

Corporate taxes reduce return

 

This effects the revenue side of the income statement.

 

i.e. taxes impact a company's revenue and costs directly and indirectly related to staffing levels.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

A company will always strive to maximize productivity..i.e. minimize workforce and maximize output. Taxes skew this relationship.

[Die Wahrheit]

Taxes, particularly those tied directly to employment, effect company staffing. For every worker hired there's an additional 20%-40% (avg) internal cost. Every businss owner takes this into account before hiring.

 

This effects the COGS portion of the income statement.

 

Corporate taxes reduce return

 

This effects the revenue side of the income statement.

 

i.e. taxes impact a company's revenue and costs directly and indirectly related to staffing levels.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

A company will always strive to maximize productivity..i.e. minimize workforce and maximize output. Taxes skew this relationship.

 

With all that said taxes still DOES NOT CREATE JOBS!!! This isn't rocket science! A product thats in demand create jobs. Sure me where you.ve studied or read that taxes create jobs and I'll show you a liar.

[Die Wahrheit]

With all that said taxes still DOES NOT CREATE JOBS!!! This isn't rocket science! A product thats in demand create jobs. SHOW me where you.ve studied or read that taxes create jobs and I'll show you a liar.

[Die Wahrheit]

responsible corporate tax cuts are different than tax cuts in income and gains for the wealthy.

 

You can name off every tax known to man, But the fact still remains that CUTTING TAXES DOESN'T CREATE JOBS!!! Show me where it does.

[kpc655]

With all that said taxes still DOES NOT CREATE JOBS!!! This isn't rocket science! A product thats in demand create jobs. Sure me where you.ve studied or read that taxes create jobs and I'll show you a liar.

 

CAPS aside..you are simply wrong. And clearly all the logic in the world won't change your emotional response. Perhaps you misunderstand what is meant by taxes "creating" jobs, but to deny the impact of taxes on a corporation is naive.

[Die Wahrheit]

CAPS aside..you are simply wrong. And clearly all the logic in the world won't change your emotional response. Perhaps you misunderstand what is meant by taxes "creating" jobs, but to deny the impact of taxes on a corporation is naive.

 

 

Know I dont tink you get it. You cannot show me anywhere in any text or in any research where cutting taxes create jobs. A demand for a product or service create jobs. I tell you what you do, stop listening to politics and do some research on your own than get back with me on it. I guarantee you will agree with me. Maybe your are wording what you are saying wrong.

[deflep1]

Die Wahrheit, if what the other guys meant was that lowering taxes on businesses frees up more cash for them to expand and hire more employees, then YES...jobs are created when that happens. As long as the demand is there and the public likes the product, businesses are more likely to add workers and become bigger (expansion or more franchises). If there's no demand and you lower taxes, there's no need to create more jobs because the sales don't justify it. On the other hand, if taxes are lower across the board and consumers have more money in their pockets to spend, they usually will. This can signal a business owner to try to expand. LOWER TAXES = EXPANSION = JOBS CREATED! ........HIGHER TAXES = JOBS LOST = MICHIGAN!!!!!!

[Die Wahrheit]

Die Wahrheit, if what the other guys meant was that lowering taxes on businesses frees up more cash for them to expand and hire more employees, then YES...jobs are created when that happens. As long as the demand is there and the public likes the product, businesses are more likely to add workers and become bigger (expansion or more franchises). If there's no demand and you lower taxes, there's no need to create more jobs because the sales don't justify it. On the other hand, if taxes are lower across the board and consumers have more money in their pockets to spend, they usually will. This can signal a business owner to try to expand. LOWER TAXES = EXPANSION = JOBS CREATED! ........HIGHER TAXES = JOBS LOST = MICHIGAN!!!!!!

 

let me try to make it plain for you guys. You can have a company that pays no taxes it doesn't matter. If they do not have a product or service thats in demand than not one single job will be created new. Now it might help to save the jobs that the employees that the company employs for a while. Do you know how many tax breaks chrysler has received? And I don;t see them hiring. Maybe because they do not have a product thats selling. Big corporations have been getting tax breaks and paying lower taxes for the last eight years and unemployment is at a all time high, explain this please. Bankruptcy filings is at a all time high. LOWER TAXES + NO PRODUCT OR SERVICE THATS IN DEMAND = NO HIRING. With that said class is over!

[deflep1]

Die Wahrheit, I clearly stated the demand has to be there. What you probably don't realize is that 70% of all new jobs created are from SMALL BUSINESSES.(CNN, CNBC, & others have stated this) IF taxes are lower, they can expand and hire more workers. They can also take customers from competitors even if the demand is the same. If they have a better product at a lower price, they will get more business. Large corporations get too many tax breaks, but small business rely on lower taxes. If the taxes are too high, they move away, residents move away (less jobs) and the cycle continues. Small businesses have been failing at a much higher rate than large corporations. With more people unemployed from small businesses, those people can't buy as much product from large businesses. They stop spending which causes the big corporations start mass layoffs, and unemployment goes through the roof. Unemployment is not at an all time high, 8.5% national unemployment is no where close to the 1930's when it was 15 - 25% for many years. By the way taxes were at an all time high in this period. 90% income tax for top earners and 45 - 60% for others. We couldn't spend our way out of that depression, it took WW2 to get us out of it. Taxes were then drastically cut, and then major expansion started and small businesses started to flourish. I think you're too focused on saying big corporations are the whole economy, they are not. It is far more important to let private entrepreneurs start businesses, higher local workers, expand to other areas and help that states' economy (with lower taxes) than to just try to take care of giant corporations. Lower taxes are more important for small business, so they can survive. Large corporations will survive with higher taxes, but they will cut jobs and relocate to areas with lower taxes. Demand is very important for both businesses, but if consumers have jobs and more money in their pockets, they will create more demand, just by spending more money. If taxes are too high, there's less jobs, less disposable income, people spend less, which lowers demand!

[Die Wahrheit]

Die Wahrheit, I clearly stated the demand has to be there. What you probably don't realize is that 70% of all new jobs created are from SMALL BUSINESSES.(CNN, CNBC, & others have stated this) IF taxes are lower, they can expand and hire more workers. They can also take customers from competitors even if the demand is the same. If they have a better product at a lower price, they will get more business. Large corporations get too many tax breaks, but small business rely on lower taxes. If the taxes are too high, they move away, residents move away (less jobs) and the cycle continues. Small businesses have been failing at a much higher rate than large corporations. With more people unemployed from small businesses, those people can't buy as much product from large businesses. They stop spending which causes the big corporations start mass layoffs, and unemployment goes through the roof. Unemployment is not at an all time high, 8.5% national unemployment is no where close to the 1930's when it was 15 - 25% for many years. By the way taxes were at an all time high in this period. 90% income tax for top earners and 45 - 60% for others. We couldn't spend our way out of that depression, it took WW2 to get us out of it. Taxes were then drastically cut, and then major expansion started and small businesses started to flourish. I think you're too focused on saying big corporations are the whole economy, they are not. It is far more important to let private entrepreneurs start businesses, higher local workers, expand to other areas and help that states' economy (with lower taxes) than to just try to take care of giant corporations. Lower taxes are more important for small business, so they can survive. Large corporations will survive with higher taxes, but they will cut jobs and relocate to areas with lower taxes. Demand is very important for both businesses, but if consumers have jobs and more money in their pockets, they will create more demand, just by spending more money. If taxes are too high, there's less jobs, less disposable income, people spend less, which lowers demand!

 

I do not totally disagree with you on that. But I simply replied to the orginal post which stated that lower taxes create jobs and that is not the truth. Small or large business with out a product or service thats in demand will not remain open no matter what the tax rate is. That was my point. LOWER TAXES DO NOT CREATE JOBS!

[kpc655]

Know I dont tink you get it. You cannot show me anywhere in any text or in any research where cutting taxes create jobs. A demand for a product or service create jobs. I tell you what you do, stop listening to politics and do some research on your own than get back with me on it. I guarantee you will agree with me. Maybe your are wording what you are saying wrong.

 

Well i did show you, and you chose to ignore it and repeat your same false assertions. If you don't understand how business works (even at a basic level) it's hard to educate you through a forum. I suggest you go read a 10k, economics textbook, or even start a business so that you understand the multitude of factors that impact staffing at a firm (including taxes).

 

Are you one of those people that believes government spending creates jobs?

Edited April 22, 2009 by kpc655

[fordworker]

Well i did show you, and you chose to ignore it and repeat your same false assertions. If you don't understand how business works (even at a basic level) it's hard to educate you through a forum. I suggest you go read a 10k, economics textbook, or even start a business so that you understand the multitude of factors that impact staffing at a firm (including taxes).

 

Are you one of those people that believes government spending creates jobs?

Ya OK smartass your right All that govt spending supports about 2-3-4 million govt jobs. I guess All that $$ does not support all of the many millions working in construction jobs

[Die Wahrheit]

Well i did show you, and you chose to ignore it and repeat your same false assertions. If you don't understand how business works (even at a basic level) it's hard to educate you through a forum. I suggest you go read a 10k, economics textbook, or even start a business so that you understand the multitude of factors that impact staffing at a firm (including taxes).

 

Are you one of those people that believes government spending creates jobs?

You need to study for yourself and not listen to who ever you listen to. There is nothing false about what I say. I no because I've done it. ANd as for reading an economics textbook I have a degree in econ. So like I was saying. This is what you do. Start a business without a product or service thats in demand. And see how long you stay in business. ANd I want you to do this while paying your low taxes or no taxes for that matter. Let me see you create jobs and not make a profit at the same time. GENIOUS!

[kpc655]

You need to study for yourself and not listen to who ever you listen to. There is nothing false about what I say. I no because I've done it. ANd as for reading an economics textbook I have a degree in econ. So like I was saying. This is what you do. Start a business without a product or service thats in demand. And see how long you stay in business. ANd I want you to do this while paying your low taxes or no taxes for that matter. Let me see you create jobs and not make a profit at the same time. GENIOUS!

 

You are truly a confused little man. We're talking about the impact of taxes, not demand. no-one denies that lack of demand for a product will kill a company.

 

Do you understand the difference between taxes and demand?

 

Do your parents know your on the computer?

[Die Wahrheit]

You are truly a confused little man. We're talking about the impact of taxes, not demand. no-one denies that lack of demand for a product will kill a company.

 

Do you understand the difference between taxes and demand?

 

Do your parents know your on the computer?

 

You need to read the original post. It ws stated that LOWER TAXES CREATE JOBS, and that is simply not the case. Now with you going all around the block with these tax theories you still haven't proved that lower taxes create jobs. Mst be a republican because you hate what you don't understand and name call when your are wrong. Let me make a liar out of you. DO YOU SAY THAT LOWER TAXES CREATE JOBS? its a simple yes or no question.