Die Wahrheit Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 I wonder what new party will be in power because the one in now is losing popularity fast. PEW: Democratic Party ratings plummet... All in time things will change like they always do. In eight years the Dems will still remain the superior because the Rethugs have nothing to offer. Not one of them have anything to offer except NO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem12 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Share Posted August 20, 2009 All in time things will change like they always do. In eight years the Dems will still remain the superior because the Rethugs have nothing to offer. Not one of them have anything to offer except NO It's hard to offer anything with the uber Furor Pelosi won't let them have a say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale143 Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Yea Bush blew it this was the biggest screw up in the history of the country. I dont think this adminstration will lie to go to war. Bush should have been impeached for his war crimes and thrown into jail him and CHeney "I no longer argue this whole point. The "hate-Bush" crowd that didn't seem to utter one peep when Clinton pimped the US Army out to the Balklands cannot seem to even remotely intellectually assent to the fact that Saddam was doing what he was doing. It is the same as when dealing with the Holocaust deniers. Those people will never believe that Auschwitz was actually a death camp, not a poorly managed resettlement camp. In the same vein, they will deny that Saddam was benign at best, and made our enemy by the "evil" US/Israel "alliance." The idelogical dishonesty of the left has been around for quite some time. They denied the evil of Lenin and Bolshevism, they denied the evil and aggression of Mussolini, they denied the evil of Hitler as he proclaimed what he was all about (after all...he was a Socialist hero...look at what he did for the German economy!), they denied the evil of Communism as it resulted in the deaths of 150 MILLION human beings, they deny the evil of Islamism, and will deny that Saddam ever did anything remotely hostile to the boogeyman of their worst bedwetting nightmares": George Bush. Bill Clinton's Justice Dept., in 1998, tied Al Qaeda and Iraq to weapon's development in Iraq (in the Osama Bin Laden Indictment). I guess that was Clinton "lying" so he could shed blood for oil. Putin told Bush, before our 2003 Invasion, that Russian Intelligence had learned that Iraq was planning terror attacks against America. Google it. Operation Iraqi Freedom has reduced Nuclear Proliferation in the region: 1. Libya finally fessed up to it's nuclear program (and surrendered ALL Nuclear materials to the U.S.) just two weeks after we pulled Saddam from his spider hole. 2. The "Peace in Our Time" Neville-Chamberlain crowd believes Iran halted nuke weapons development in 2003. Gee ... what happened in 2003 that would cause Iran to think that continued nuke weapons development might be dangerous for them. I'll have to research this (tongue-in-cheek). 3. Saddam plans were (as the Duelfer CIA report showed) to get all UN sanctions lifted, and RESTART his WMD programs including nuclear. The Duelfer report is the definitive report on the status of Iraq WMD programs at the time of the 2003 invasion. Operation Iraqi Freedom is a testament to a President who learned the lessons of 9-11, the primary being to take serious the threats of seeming insignificant madmen. How many times did Saddam violate the conditions of the Gulf War I ceasefire?? The bottom line is that AQ decided that Iraq was going to be the central front on their war against freedom and western values. They could have made Afghanistan that battlefield but chose Iraq as well. AQ's own writings indicate their dream to setup a Caliphate in Iraq. And let's not forget that we are also fighting Iranian efforts amongst the Shia or Iraq. The last thing we can afford is to allow Iranian power to spread. The biggest disappointment for me has been to watch the stupidity and partisanship of Americans grow and grow. No resolve. The one thing we need in a post 9-11 world. The Osama Binladen INDICTMENT. http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/indict1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 "I no longer argue this whole point. The "hate-Bush" crowd that didn't seem to utter one peep when Clinton pimped the US Army out to the Balklands cannot seem to even remotely intellectually assent to the fact that Saddam was doing what he was doing. It is the same as when dealing with the Holocaust deniers. Those people will never believe that Auschwitz was actually a death camp, not a poorly managed resettlement camp. In the same vein, they will deny that Saddam was benign at best, and made our enemy by the "evil" US/Israel "alliance." The idelogical dishonesty of the left has been around for quite some time. They denied the evil of Lenin and Bolshevism, they denied the evil and aggression of Mussolini, they denied the evil of Hitler as he proclaimed what he was all about (after all...he was a Socialist hero...look at what he did for the German economy!), they denied the evil of Communism as it resulted in the deaths of 150 MILLION human beings, they deny the evil of Islamism, and will deny that Saddam ever did anything remotely hostile to the boogeyman of their worst bedwetting nightmares": George Bush. Bill Clinton's Justice Dept., in 1998, tied Al Qaeda and Iraq to weapon's development in Iraq (in the Osama Bin Laden Indictment). I guess that was Clinton "lying" so he could shed blood for oil. Putin told Bush, before our 2003 Invasion, that Russian Intelligence had learned that Iraq was planning terror attacks against America. Google it. Operation Iraqi Freedom has reduced Nuclear Proliferation in the region: 1. Libya finally fessed up to it's nuclear program (and surrendered ALL Nuclear materials to the U.S.) just two weeks after we pulled Saddam from his spider hole. 2. The "Peace in Our Time" Neville-Chamberlain crowd believes Iran halted nuke weapons development in 2003. Gee ... what happened in 2003 that would cause Iran to think that continued nuke weapons development might be dangerous for them. I'll have to research this (tongue-in-cheek). 3. Saddam plans were (as the Duelfer CIA report showed) to get all UN sanctions lifted, and RESTART his WMD programs including nuclear. The Duelfer report is the definitive report on the status of Iraq WMD programs at the time of the 2003 invasion. Operation Iraqi Freedom is a testament to a President who learned the lessons of 9-11, the primary being to take serious the threats of seeming insignificant madmen. How many times did Saddam violate the conditions of the Gulf War I ceasefire?? The bottom line is that AQ decided that Iraq was going to be the central front on their war against freedom and western values. They could have made Afghanistan that battlefield but chose Iraq as well. AQ's own writings indicate their dream to setup a Caliphate in Iraq. And let's not forget that we are also fighting Iranian efforts amongst the Shia or Iraq. The last thing we can afford is to allow Iranian power to spread. The biggest disappointment for me has been to watch the stupidity and partisanship of Americans grow and grow. No resolve. The one thing we need in a post 9-11 world. The Osama Binladen INDICTMENT. http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/indict1.pdf the Balkins war was a genicide.. it was a just war.. there was no LYING about y we went there as there was with Bush's war.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 So Bush was ising the terroe threat to get elected!! we all knew that was true 5 years ago.. now Tom Ridge and several retired Army Generals back him up.. I wonder what the right wing would have done if Clinton or Obama had done this?? But since Bush did it I dont hear a peep out of Hannity or Rush or the rest of the right wingers... not a peep from the tv preachers either... U see the GOP presidents all do this they all do illegal acts and hide behind the preachers and use the "Moral" card and until now they got away with it.. Reagan traded arms ILLEGALLY to Iran,Nixon did many illegal acts and the Bush's both did them.. I want to hear what was Bush qualifications to be president?? 1. his daddy was president 2. his daddy was president 3. his daddy was president those were his 3 qualifications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 So Bush was ising the terroe threat to get elected!! we all knew that was true 5 years ago.. now Tom Ridge and several retired Army Generals back him up..I wonder what the right wing would have done if Clinton or Obama had done this?? But since Bush did it I dont hear a peep out of Hannity or Rush or the rest of the right wingers... not a peep from the tv preachers either... U see the GOP presidents all do this they all do illegal acts and hide behind the preachers and use the "Moral" card and until now they got away with it.. Reagan traded arms ILLEGALLY to Iran,Nixon did many illegal acts and the Bush's both did them.. I want to hear what was Bush qualifications to be president?? 1. his daddy was president 2. his daddy was president 3. his daddy was president those were his 3 qualifications speaking of playing the "moral card"...I think obama used it this week in a feeble attempt to get his healthcare bill through....what a loser! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 speaking of playing the "moral card"...I think obama used it this week in a feeble attempt to get his healthcare bill through....what a loser! what r u talking about??? Bush won by pretending to be a "MORAL"christian "so did sanford and eisign... go read what Ridge says Bush and his boys did,, using the military as a election tool thats terrible thats unamerican. and palin using it in every speech when she has nothing else to say thats fake also. wink,wink And as far as Obama being a loser, I believe he got more electorial votes then Bush got hell obama even won his election without cheating unlike the 2000 election... remember this when not if but when the healthcare bill passes it will win the day next election as the dems will keep there huge majorities in Congress and the Senate... most americans want this to pass thats y they were elected by a huge margin no matter what hannity says facts are facts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 what r u talking about??? Bush won by pretending to be a "MORAL"christian "so did sanford and eisign... go read what Ridge says Bush and his boys did,, using the military as a election tool thats terrible thats unamerican. and palin using it in every speech when she has nothing else to say thats fake also. wink,wink And as far as Obama being a loser, I believe he got more electorial votes then Bush got hell obama even won his election without cheating unlike the 2000 election... remember this when not if but when the healthcare bill passes it will win the day next election as the dems will keep there huge majorities in Congress and the Senate... most americans want this to pass thats y they were elected by a huge margin no matter what hannity says facts are facts.... You've never been one to let the facts get in your way....... most americans want this to pass 32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose Data released earlier today shows that 51% of voters fear the federal government more than private insurance companies when it comes to health care decisions. Forty-one percent (41%) have the opposite fear. Recent polling has shown that the public is fairly evenly divided about the health insurance proposals being made by the president and congressional leaders of his party, but most remain convinced that the plans will raise costs and hurt the quality of the care they receive. Those who feel strongly about the issue are more likely to oppose the reform effort. As Congress has debated potential reforms, confidence in U.S. health care system has increased. Just 19% of Americans now rate the overall system as poor while 48% say it’s good or excellent. Read more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 You've never been one to let the facts get in your way....... 32% Favor Single-Payer Health Care, 57% Oppose Read more There will be a health care reform this year you can bet on that. The lies will play out. Status quo is what the right is all about. The ones that tell the lies are the ones that will benefit the most if thing stay the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 So Bush was ising the terroe threat to get elected!! we all knew that was true 5 years ago.. now Tom Ridge and several retired Army Generals back him up..I wonder what the right wing would have done if Clinton or Obama had done this?? But since Bush did it I dont hear a peep out of Hannity or Rush or the rest of the right wingers... not a peep from the tv preachers either... U see the GOP presidents all do this they all do illegal acts and hide behind the preachers and use the "Moral" card and until now they got away with it.. Reagan traded arms ILLEGALLY to Iran,Nixon did many illegal acts and the Bush's both did them.. I want to hear what was Bush qualifications to be president?? 1. his daddy was president 2. his daddy was president 3. his daddy was president those were his 3 qualifications Throw Bush in jail. This guy was the worst and most crooked of them all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Firms with Obama ties profit from health push Firms with ties to the right wing is benefitting now as well as the right wing leaders. So just what the hell is your point. COme again with that bullshit article you are reading. Read a little more and see who stands to gain the most if nothing is done to reform health care. When you do get back with me on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 It's coming apart like a cheap suit.... The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Saturday shows that 29% of the nation's voters Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-nine percent (39%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -10 This is the first time since July 31 that the President’s Approval Index has fallen to negative double digits (see trends). Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 There will be a health care reform this year you can bet on that. The lies will play out. Status quo is what the right is all about. The ones that tell the lies are the ones that will benefit the most if thing stay the same. For the first time in over two years of polling, voters trust Republicans slightly more than Democrats on the handling of the issue of health care. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that voters favor the GOP on the issue 44% to 41%. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Link They survey about a thousand people, big deal/ How many were rethugs? How many were Dems? that would make a big defference wouldnt it ya think. Like I said there will be a reform on health care this year on Obama watch. So you can have a ll the polls you want. The fact is that Obama is President and will be for eight years. Because of the party on NOTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napfirst Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 They survey about a thousand people, big deal/ How many were rethugs? How many were Dems? that would make a big defference wouldnt it ya think. Like I said there will be a reform on health care this year on Obama watch. So you can have a ll the polls you want. The fact is that Obama is President and will be for eight years. Because of the party on NOTHING! Well, you got that wrong....again...go back to the union hall and ask then what to say..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 Obama's Backroom Healthcare Deals Need Explaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 23, 2009 Share Posted August 23, 2009 The difference is choice....why is that so hard to understand? Your trying to deny choice by blocking a public option, and I have a thick head! Cap. they keep reciting that 61% of Americans are happy with their current health care coverage. How come their not asking the 44,000,000 uninsured in this country whether or not they are happy with their coverage? The cost is moot point also, because they will print more money like they did to finance a war we shouldn't have gotten so involved in. The money invested in the health care sector will bear fruit, where as the money invested in IRAQ was a waste. I have opposed you on many points in the past, but even with Ron Paul saw the truth when I actually did some research. I have done plenty of research on the medical industry, and it is the same old lobby trying to preserve the status qua! I just suffered a blunt force trauma to the head last Sat. Aug. 15 th that caused bleeding in 2 ventricles within my brain, I am now recovering, but am anticipating the extortion to follow. I cannot wait to get my bill for a 6 day stay, and all the meds, and testing. I'm going to guess $23,000 with no surgery involved. I'll let you know, and I'll also post a copy of the billing statement on this forum when I get it! Suffer brain damage, or pay what we demand! I don't know of any other industry that operates like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikem12 Posted August 23, 2009 Author Share Posted August 23, 2009 (edited) speaking of playing the "moral card"...I think obama used it this week in a feeble attempt to get his healthcare bill through....what a loser! remember it's ok for them but it's evil if anyone else does it. Hypocrits all! Edited August 23, 2009 by mikem12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Wahrheit Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Well, you got that wrong....again...go back to the union hall and ask then what to say..... iM PRETTY SURE IM CORRECT. lIKE i STATED BEFORE YOU ARE ONE TO BASH THE UNION BUT I CAN ALMOST BET THAT IF IT WASNT FOR THE UNION YOU WOULD HAVE LOST YOUR JOB A LONG TIME AGO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 Cap. they keep reciting that 61% of Americans are happy with their current health care coverage. How come their not asking the 44,000,000 uninsured in this country whether or not they are happy with their coverage? The cost is moot point also, because they will print more money like they did to finance a war we shouldn't have gotten so involved in. The money invested in the health care sector will bear fruit, where as the money invested in IRAQ was a waste. I have opposed you on many points in the past, but even with Ron Paul saw the truth when I actually did some research. I have done plenty of research on the medical industry, and it is the same old lobby trying to preserve the status qua! When they print money you end up paying twice through taxes and inflation tax, is that OK with you? There comes a time when you can't print more money. Which lobby is that? Lowering the Cost of Health Care We should remember that HMOs did not arise because of free-market demand, but rather because of government mandates. The HMO Act of 1973 requires all but the smallest employers to offer their employees HMO coverage, and the tax code allows businesses – but not individuals – to deduct the cost of health insurance premiums. The result is the illogical coupling of employment and health insurance, which often leaves the unemployed without needed catastrophic coverage. While many in Congress are happy to criticize HMOs today, the public never hears how the present system was imposed upon the American people by federal law. As usual, government intervention in the private market failed to deliver the promised benefits and caused unintended consequences, but Congress never blames itself for the problems created by bad laws. Instead, we are told more government – in the form of “universal coverage” – is the answer. But government already is involved in roughly two-thirds of all health care spending, through Medicare, Medicaid, and other programs. For decades, the U.S. healthcare system was the envy of the entire world. Not coincidentally, there was far less government involvement in medicine during this time. America had the finest doctors and hospitals, patients enjoyed high-quality, affordable medical care, and thousands of private charities provided health services for the poor. Doctors focused on treating patients, without the red tape and threat of lawsuits that plague the profession today. Most Americans paid cash for basic services, and had insurance only for major illnesses and accidents. This meant both doctors and patients had an incentive to keep costs down, as the patient was directly responsible for payment, rather than an HMO or government program. The lesson is clear: when government and other third parties get involved, health care costs spiral. The answer is not a system of outright socialized medicine, but rather a system that encourages everyone – doctors, hospitals, patients, and drug companies – to keep costs down. As long as “somebody else” is paying the bill, the bill will be too high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 24, 2009 Share Posted August 24, 2009 (edited) When they print money you end up paying twice through taxes and inflation tax, is that OK with you? There comes a time when you can't print more money. Which lobby is that? Lowering the Cost of Health Care Cap I know the consequences, I also know it erodes the values of peoples savings, for the most part in this country no longer exists. My point is that there is more at stake fiscally to future prospective business owners. I believe the growth will out whey the cost long term and there was a double standard with the Republicans views when concerning prosperity versus warfare when it comes to spending. (with the exception of Congressman Paul) We cannot undue IRAQ, but we can fix the health care cost crisis. We pay for people who don't contribute at all now, so why not those who work, and cannot afford it? At least this way they will contribute something even when they are still healthy? Should we wait till they get hurt, or sick and are forced to leave their jobs to be able get on welfare or disability. We will pay for them anyway, so at least they would have paid in while they were still working. The government provides better coverage right now, with less cost to the patient then what FOMOCO offers you as an employee. Edited August 24, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmccap Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 excuse me byt who gave the banks $20 trillion of govt. backing? and what percentage of the $10 trillion debt the US has has come under republican presidents?? try 80% of it.. And who wants to almost double it in 10 years??? Obama’s Spending Plans Will Nearly Double the National Debt--White House Leaked the News Late on Friday Since the beginning of the republic in the late 18th century, the U.S. government has accumulated a total of $11.67 trillion in debt. In the next decade, under the budget plans the Obama administration has in mind, that debt will almost double to about $20.67 trillion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 And who wants to almost double it in 10 years??? Obama’s Spending Plans Will Nearly Double the National Debt--White House Leaked the News Late on Friday and how much of that is for Bush's war and the after affects of that war?? how much is for bush's prescription drug plan?? how much is for bush's depression he caused?? a nd u act like if McCain had won he would have had no debt!! because he would have had almost the same amount except he would have given it all to the top 2% instead of the ones who need it... the GOP thinks like the Roman senate!! what was it that they said.....FUCK the poor thats what! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordworker Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 and as for u GOP protesters saying to there congressman that "u work for us"" well thats right and they the democrats were elected by a wide majority and they will pass a healthcare bill.. the GOP cannot stop it!! cry and protest all u want u cant stop a damn thing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furious1Auto Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) and as for u GOP protesters saying to there congressman that "u work for us"" well thats right and they the democrats were elected by a wide majority and they will pass a healthcare bill.. the GOP cannot stop it!! cry and protest all u want u cant stop a damn thing.. It needs to be this health care bill, and not a watered down rewrite to appease the GOP. If there is no public option then the insurance companies still win at the expense of the American people. If we can at the very least get the base system in place we can tweek it later for improvement. I keep hearing the republicans talking about total rewrites just because they don't like the main components of this bill. Honestly the auto industry is forced to compete like any other industry, and they have to do it with unfair trade restrictions, currency valuation disadvantages, and against foreign entities. If Ford motor company can reinvent their selves, and become lean and efficient then so can the medical field with all of their talent. Doctors need to be freed up to deal with peoples illnesses, not forced to conform to insurers restriction to even get compensated for their work, or having their treatment recommendations dictated to them VIA the insurance companies. There also needs to be measures taken to alleviate the cost of medical schooling and malpractice insurance rates. This will open a huge demand for qualified personnel, and we don't need to saddle new doctors with hundreds of thousands in debt right out of school just to be allowed to practice medicine. Edited August 25, 2009 by Furious1Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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