kyle

not sure why the legacy is missing because they definitely match up size, price and performance wise. That is my favorite car in that class, but I give ford credit...there is a huge market for awd vehicles, something subaru just can't exploit. and glad to see some more of this type of advertising.....we all know the shortcomings (and all vehicles have a few) but they need to get the message out that this vehicle needs to be on people's list.

the outlook just arrived and have not even started to market it yet...not that saturn is even advertised. And the sky is a convertible which ususally sells more in the summer....so the point being is their is some positive things going on with that brand.

saturn sales were up 41%....I guess that expermint that richard said would fail miserably is....well wrong! Just taking a shot at you richard....just goes to show that the more we think we know the less we actually do:)) myself included....because I was a little skeptical at best

Kind of agree with you there....we won't be sitting here next year and saying "were number 1!" I think the day's supply for the camry are still pretty tight and they have a plant coming online this year with the subaru joint venture. I just would never underestimate toyota anymore. The 500 is the ace in the hole here....if it does not pick up any traction those vehicles will be the main stay of fleets next year.

Nice post....appreciate the info. Would be curious to hear if you are still with the company or have moved on. Richard I think that their is some validity to what has been stated and think you should take it for what it is... From my perspective I have to say that as much as Nasser was a failure, Bill Ford was more so. Bill was Jac's boss for what 4 years prior to the change up. All along he as chief executive office and a long term member of the board was well aware of what was going on in the product side. He more than anyone is accountable. I do not believe that he was outright lied to and it is his responsiblity to ensure that he is given accurate information. A friend of mine worked for H&P for nearly 20 years before Carly Fiornia was promoted to the top job. Not to much later he was out during a reorg in the company. Listening to him it is apparent to him that he has an ax to grind-and if I was making $200k a year and was out I would be to-but he always harped back to the original founds management style....anyone? It was MBWA-management by walking around. Obviously bill never worked for Ford but if he had "walked around" he would of seen through many of the problems. The best thing he ever did was hire Mulally. Second best thing was knew he had to hire someone. Everyone at the top of ford's manangement has changed in the past 8 years but one.

the taurus changed dramatically 2000-new instrument panel, etc. I think they changed everything but the doors on the body. if you think the 500 only needed new taillights and a 3 bar grill (besides the motor) to get on the list of people looking at an avalon, lesabre and a 300 I respectfully disagree (as opposed to sixcav-sure do miss him sometime-who would of been much more personal!) disagree. Their is not enough compelling reasons to get on the list...and 200k sales of this unit....please...they only forecast 100k of the edge-a brand new product that is ford's best effort since the original taurus. yah it sucks that I have to hate certain products that ford makes because I just love the company. how can anyone defend these vehicles when they are getting their ass kicked in the market. If ford was selling these vehicle's at respectable levels and people were actually buying this car other than price (besides for few loyaltist's) then my argument would hold no merit at all...but in this case I hate being wrong. you will not hear me bashing the f150, the mustang, edge or the fusion (although I have stated before their interior's are their weak point). what is the market size of honda right now...just off hand...they are in and around 10%-that is what ford gave up in less than 10 years-imagine that. to me it just boggles the mind....and the only reason why they went from 25 to 15% (which mind you is where they WANT to be-no guarantees that is where they will bottom out!!!) is because of product. product, product, product. and I guess if I hate something it must at least mean that I give a shit.

To me!! Vehicle looks great...like some have said-"half hate it, half love it." This is what they have to do-make a bold statement.

I stand by my comments....I have seen numerous posts where people say "wait till the 500 gets redone, etc." Say what you want but when you guys get excited about dual exhausts and clear tail lights there is a problem. Honda does a slight refreshening every 2-2.5 years on their accord and it is a hell of a seller to begin with. Ford acknowleged the problem early on and it took forever for this pathetic showing. And the taurus change from 1996 to 99? took the car's styling in a whole different direction. Defend all you want...does not matter to me...I am not the one trying to sell these things. It is just another sad redesign by ford. And like I said things will change significantly in the next 2-3 years with fields pushing the styling department... Some of you guys just crack me up....it is rather amusing how jaded you are. I just hope you don't actually work for ford. Kind of like some fanatical sports fan defending your favorite team, etc. And please don't question my love for ford because I happen to call them out on their failures-really sucks that they are going through this but they did this to themselves-no one else.

this is the reason why ford is in trouble....we have heard since this vehicle was launched that it would be updated and many have predicted that this would be the second coming of this vehicle..... now if you still believe that I feel sorry for you....they updated the taurus in quicker time with far more changes to the vehicle's personality. honda does this type of updates every two years... now the good news...this is the reason why mulally and fields are shaking the hell out of the company. these things will not continue to happen and products that will hit the streets in 2 years or so will not look old by the time they are released.

they can say alot of things....but the industry is already forcasting a drop in sales for next year....so with a declining market means more incentives and that is not where they are headed. You also have a new gm pickup and a new toyota pickup-huge volume models.

they would be thrilled if it stabilized....and have been saying that for a couple of years now....don't think it will happen until mid 2008

It took me an hour the other day to catch up on the ford 500 topic-with some defending it and other's criticizing it. I can't remember a topic in this forum that generated so much interest. I guess many of us were just disapointed in how little they changed the vehicle's appearance. I think the upcoming focus has gotten a much better refreshening....actually looks like a "new" vehicle! http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/12/13/spi...focus-new-face/

Volvo looks like they will continue to build some nice looking vehicles. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/12/13/detroit...o-xc60-concept/

piddly 204 hp......kind of ironic that the zephyr did not have much more than that last year! And then check to see where the vehicle has that "cheapened" feel to it....you won't find it. And don't even mention resale. the problem with the mkz is just stated to you guys from someone who bought one....nothing new there...and I happen to like the looks of the car...especially in black....the problem is when you compare it to vehicles in it's class I am a big fan of awd...borg you will love that feature....another nice product with that feature in the subu legacy-especially when it is turbo charged....and their interiors have come miles!

I agree with the pivotal year being 2009. Fields will have his stamp on things by then-if those products come out and have the same old look then it will be several more years and possible bankruptcy. The old quote goes "I will know it when I see it" kind of plays into when they have turned that corner and until that time goes they are going to be struggling for quite sometime-there is just way to much competition out there.

When are they going to bottom out and start to rebound? Very good question. My guess (which is all it is!) is not until at least 2010-at the earliest. I base that on the products that are in the pipeline and their recent history. I also think it will take at least 3-4 years for mulally's team to start showing results. There is going to be many people leaving the company in the next 6 months or so, and I am not talking about the layoffs-I am thinking more in senior leadership who do not buy into mulally's direction. As his team is put together it will take awhile for products to start showing up that can really make a difference.

What happened to sixcav? I spent an hour reading the posts on the 500 but did not see anything that warranted his dismisal, at least in that topic.

or the south florida auto show...only show I know that is open until midnight...then the fun really begins around that town!

What the article is saying is correct...the focus is built as a wagon-true for now...but like you I have heard there will be no wagon version

but damn it...they are not designed in america! just mocking RJ...heh that is good news...although I would rather see some of this under the lincoln lineup

heh Richard....hope you don't disappear completely from the site....and although we don't always agree-who the hell does!-always appreciate your opinion...seems to rise above much of the mud slinging extrimists from "both" sides! good luck!

michael....I agree...every month! same old story.....t really does not matter right now (well it does but not much you can do about it)....they are going to be dropping share for the next year or so-they have already admitted that much...this is not their priority...they have to get so many other things in place before they can even think about stabilizing and growing their share

richard...can't remember where I read it but heard that the xc50 is being named the xc60 That thing sure does look great....volvo has to break out of their conserative styling and this thing sure would help....I love the c30 hatch-that thing is going to sell like crazy...volvo is on to something there..

richard...I don't think you can compare what gm did with oldsmobile 10 years ago with what they are doing today...not even close. Not to say what you were proposing would not work, but their products that gm is giving them are pretty damn good. you have to remember that the person buying a saturn 6-8 years ago want something else and that crossover vehicle that they are getting is a hell of a vehicle. like I said....when they first announced that strategy I too was skeptical but not now....kind of goes back to what many of us are saying that even though ford's new products are good everyone else is not just standing around.. I expect to be disappointed for the next year at least....but after that I expect what mark fields has been preaching-and mulally getting up to speed things will change considerably for the better...put it this way...if all us naysayer's are still bitching about would of, could of, should of-then the other shoe will of dropped by then