cheri/ck

And that above is what keeps the dealers in business. Ford sells the new vehicles to the dealers and it would seem they don't make a bunch off the new vehicles. Ford has made their money at that point. I know they have a reserve on the ones the dealers purchase, but think the dealers' money mostly comes in elsewhere. The dealers are usually working hard with used vehicles, trade-ins and hopefully a good deal of service work in between. And that is where they make most of their money. And without the dealers making a decent profit, Ford would be in a lot of trouble. Narrow minded thinking, accusations, assumptions and unfounded comments are what this thread is about. Keep Ford corporate profit at the expense of less selection for the customer. Bean counter thinking that will eventually be a huge negative for any company. And, yes the used vehicle market is hugely strong right now. I would indeed trade in my 10 year old Ranger for close to what I paid for it nine years ago, if Ford sold something I wanted to buy. As it stands, we keep the old ones and fix them as needed. So far, that hasn't been too expensive. Just an inconvenience waiting on Ford to make something we want to buy again. And that includes new. I do think the new truck market is about to create some options for us. Just not Ford so far in the mix. The only used Ford trucks I want to consider are 2008 F-150 and the last of the SportTracs. One is too big and the other without a usable bed. They are high priced - I can buy a nearly new recent year F-150 for what the 2008 models are trying to sell for. Hanging on for a while longer. Need a decent choice from Ford of a less than three-quarter ton, too big truck for normal everyday rural use.

OK, guys - go back to KBB or where ever you price used vehicles. Might want to check E-Bay or AutoTrader too. I know our local market and so do our local dealers. My Ranger is 4.0 V-6, low mileage, 4X4 and dealer maintained with complete service records - and in very good condition. Plus a matching camper shell and every available option back in 2003. So, speak of what you know about without assuming I drive the cheapest stuff out there. And, continue the internal efficiency and maximizing volumes Ford talk - I am a retired accountant. And contrary to popular thought here, I do understand numbers - very well. With that in mind, Ford can limit their available vehicles to what they truly think are volume leaders. Or they can "maximize" the volume by offering a choice to customers and see what sells well. The buyers will determine this direction as to failure or success. I think Ford is headed downhill in terms of market share based on such narrow thinking. Shrink the vehicles available and without some kind of stand out, barn-burning new vehicle - shrink market share. We'll see........

And, since most of you guys are so good at remembering numbers, please enlighten me. I think Tacoma is selling well north of 100,000 units per year. Seems to me like the Ranger in its last years of full production was in the 90,000 unit range. Yet on this forum, we talk about so many different Ford vehicles that are selling less than 50,000 units per year. But, we agonize over these vehicles and how to replace them and how much more money to throw at them. Maybe my math is wrong. The business model is getting muddled in my mind. Except for F-150 - sure don't want any in-house competition for that special high profit vehicle from a smaller truck! Never mind losing a few more customers due to lack of choice.

Guess we'll see. And in that vein - how do you rationlize that my 10 year-old Ranger is worth almost what I paid for it? I'm not talking trade-in. Cash purchase by dealers looking hard for them and getting good money for them when they find them. I don't want the Toyota or Nissan unless I absolutely have to find something. Waiting on their updates which are coming soon. The new Colorado should be interesting, it has been a good competitor to the T-6 Ranger on the international front. Never know what GM will decide though for the American market. Sure looks like Ford is left out of the mix at this point.

What do you call next to nothing? The well equipped mid-size trucks available are easily in the price range of a similar F-150 regular cab. They are still waiting on redesigns and that will happen shortly. Not willing to pay that price tag until the new mid-sizes come on board. I just priced a new F-150 regular cab with 4X4, 5.0 V-8 and comfortable options. Looking at somewhere around $30,000 cash to special order it and that is not fully optioned out. And would have to special order as they are mostly not available other than 3.7 V-6 work trucks with no good options. Trying to call me cheap is not what this is about. It's the lack of availabilty from Ford of a nice, reasonably sized truck (fits in a normal garage). We only have a choice of two 3/4 ton models - yes the F-150 is in that territory.

I am getting calls from local car dealers wanting my 10 year-old Ranger. My only reply is how could I possibly replace it? Oh, just buy one of our CUV's - they are great and get a combined 22+ mpg with AWD. My reply is that my old Ranger with 4.0 and manual tranny rarely ever sees less than combined 19 mpg. A little better on the highway in good conditions. I wouldn't much mind selling it to them for almost what I paid for it nine years ago, but those AWD cars (CUV's) sure won't pull through the winter like this little truck with 4WD, 4.10 limited slip rear. And it sure would be a mess trying to haul the stuff I do with the Ranger. Nothing out there for me. I do look at the Frontiers and the Tacomas, just having a hard time with either of them considering the price tag. Ford has left us with a big gaping hole in the truck market.

Feel the same way and try to stay away from even mentioning Ranger on this forum or complaining about the F-150. Swear myself off over and over from this forum. I am likely to get banned soon. But sometimes it just gets too frustrating. The Rangers have been close to tractors for us and weathered that abuse well. It is still hard for us to look at them aging and have to remind ourselves - Ford doesn't make them any more. We drive our 2007 model F-150 - regular cab, 4X4, short bed - a lot. Great truck, rough ride, turns short, gets good gas mileage even with the 5.4. Same wheel base as an extended cab Ranger. Same length bumper to bumper as our older extended cab F-150, we just lost the rear seat. Progress? It has accumulated a lot of miles quickly and we dread the change of spark plugs. Could be very expensive due to Ford's lack of better design with the 5.4 or just lack of care for the end user. These kind of things don't feel good and maybe our good dealer can get those likely stuck plugs out without damaging the head. The dealer quotes $500 to $1,000 and doesn't quite say maybe more yet. Just to get the spark plugs changed out at 100,000 miles on a truck that has been properly dealer maintained? Guess once again with Ford, we'll see how it goes. So, we are doubting Ford a lot now. I think I am doubting their engineering more than anything. At least with the trucks and they don't offer anything we want to buy again yet. Not interested in the fancy supercrews. We don't carry people much. Just need a good, strong truck. Not a replacement for a family vehicle. Hoping for better from Ford, but not seeing much indication of that happening soon. And, yeah - got a good laugh out of that one with the Fiesta. A Fiesta would work great out here where we live! Imagine the tires would blow out within a month due to rock damage. No telling what else next............ Oh well.

Frankly, the lack of bankruptcy by Ford was a great thing at the time. And something to feel very proud about - felt the same way. But they owe a lot of money now that GM and Chrsyler does not owe. That old lack of bankruptcy was good for a while, but I suspect considering how long people remember things - it doesn't much matter any more. Seems to me that Ford has tried to cut down on product development, maybe lack of varied product development as much as anything. In a serious effort to pay back all the old debt (in bonds) that they still owe. Ford is bringing in good products from Europe, trying to adapt them to the American market and so far I don't see even one doing well. Ford has every version of SUV and CUV available, but looking closely - they are related on common chassis and drivetrain combinations. Styling has never been a great Ford card and it still isn't. The cars struggle to compete. Somebody tell me when Ford last had a big home-run with a car or car-derived chassis? I forget like many. The Fusion is still good and OK, the Mustang which looks like it will get a new look soon. But the last of the rear-wheel drives. And people like rear-wheel-drive. Both Dodge and GM are addressing that issue, Ford is not with cars. Ford has an incredibly loyal truck base that they are slapping against. Not only the cancel of the small, capable truck, but the 2011-12 F-150 is a disappointment. The new engines (almost good now) and the 6-speed tranny (may never be good) is close to an embarassment. There is more. If you don't believe me, look at the TSB's and constant chasing of components that just don't work right not to speak of meshing right together. So, yes - there isn't anything from Ford that we want to buy especially considering the latest pricing. Although, from what I have seen lately, the dealers are seriously discounting the F-150 and Ford is already heavy into rebates. We are not the younger generation that trades a truck every year or two and works hard to keep making the payment. Styling matters little to us, but reliabily and long-term does. We'll see. Just hate no good choices here from Ford for us in terms of replacing either the Rangers or the F-150's.

Once again, we forget the investment GM is making to bring the Colorado in next year. Completely revamping a factory. That Colorado is a direct competitor to the T-6 Ranger everywhere but here. The global Ranger is a little too good for us it seems according to Ford. Those of you that look at dimensions, sales numbers, compare all those numbers to make decisions about marketing. And, fail to understand that Ford took the lead here in the demise of the small truck by not developing the Ranger beyond about 2005. Ford is (or has been) the truck leader and the rest of the manufacturers pay attention. They follow with Ford's direction or lack thereof, so the mid-size trucks have had no development. Therefore, no new engines or transmissions or all those other developments that could have led them to good mileage numbers. And therefore, loss of market to the big trucks. But, GM is taking it by the reins and we will have a new domestic mid-size truck next year that is hopefully a capable, good gas mileage one. And, during all this bean counter stuff - wonder if anyone has considered the cost of losing those Ford customers that will have no choice but to look elsewhere for a small truck. Now that they realize Ford has nothing smaller than the F-150. They will go to the competition. Getting those customers back may bring a hefty cost. Won't even get into the problems with the latest 2011-2012 F-150 model. Yeah - it outsells until you look at the combined numbers for both GM and GMC combined. And that GM offering is an old truck about to maybe hit the market with a decent redesign. Lots of problems with this latest Ford F-150 design, new engines, new tranny - trying to take a 5,000+ truck into good gas mileage. Which few report. I see nothing here but trouble for Ford in their best market - trucks. We are Ford truck people for over 30 years and sure wish we didn't have to leave. Also have a good local dealer. Still hoping to stay Ford loyal, but we are barely hanging on with too many older trucks. And nothing we want to buy from Ford.

And, we do get some comments from those that have never actually used a truck. Especially a smaller one that can do only some things that smaller vehicles can do. Tighter turning, tighter parking, easier backing and contray to popular belief -better gas mileage. The idea that the little Transit would replace a Ranger for the auto parts companies is absurd in my mind. Those guys haul things like engine blocks that have to be lifted by equipment into the back. Ever try to get a pallet of something heavy into a truck with a shell on it? It can be done, but takes extra time and you are sure at the mercy of the equipment operator to shove it in right. As opposed to simply dropping it in. Then we get to address the problem of fluids leaking from the return parts these trucks pick up. Not a pretty picture for the driver of the little van trying to get that stuff back home. I'm sure the leakage could be addressed, but not the odors. Kind of doubt the landscapers that need to get in tight places are real crazy about hauling smelly stuff in anything other than open bed, small truck. Clean up is so easy with an open bed truck too. And we tend to forget that the Transit is not available with 4WD, not even AWD. That is needed by many that buy (used to buy) Rangers. The Transit Connect replacement for the Ranger conversation needs to go away. And, I haven't even mentioned hauling my big smelly dog around! The one with arthritis that can get into the back of a Ranger on her own, but has to be lifted by two people to get her into the tall F-150's. There is a market for these trucks and it is hugely disappointing that Ford is not addressing it properly.

I would be interested in the Falcon too. But it won't come here in a reasonable size. We are too fixated now on 4-doors, family needs. It really could be a decent replacement for a Ranger that is only used for commuting, shopping trips, occasional light duty towing/hauling - and wow! Fun to drive. Yeah, too cool for us in the U.S. for sure.

Kind of makes you wonder what a T-6 Ranger could do with the 3.7 V-6. That is a good, strong engine which is obvious from the limited application in the F-150. Suspect in the T-6 it could deliver upper 20's which would be a milestone for a capable, BOF truck. Once again, just dreaming here. Won't happen though with Ford before I absolutely have to buy something newer. Like many, watching the used market very carefully. Just nothing out there new that I am willing to spend the money on. I do think it is all tilting toward change. Not only the Colorado ramping up but big changes eventually across the board -Nissan's Titan for one. If they keep that truck about the same size and go to their 6-speed tranny, it's an option for some of us looking for a smaller footprint with decent mileage. Like I say - getting interesting.

Yeah, you are right and already the conclusion here. Just can't seem to keep complaining that Ford doesn't give us a choice - now or at least pretty soon. Hard to understand why the only choice is a big almost F-250 and maybe someday a unibody with a bed on it that probably can't tow much. The capable smaller truck has a market and like I say - we'll see. Never been a big GM fan but I do applaud this current Colorado effort - granted mostly in the face of Ford failing to do something similar in the U.S. Like I said - we'll see. Got to do something soon around here. Don't like much of anything with the current F-150 and there's nothing else coming up in a more reasonable, usable size. Or maybe the Atlas concept is deceiving. Should be interesting, especially with Tacoma and Frontier following behind GM with updates - finally. They mostly just gave up on Ford as a leader in this segment and GM is assuming the role.

Once again, I fail to understand the math. A smaller truck weighing considerably less with the 3.7 V-6 could surely do quite well on the EPA city/highway cycle. And perform well as a light duty truck. Assuming the proper development was involved. The 3.7 V-6 in the F-150 suffers from the weight it has to carry plus wind resistance of the wide/tall design. If you are on flat land at low altitude and not trying to tow anything or haul much - it is OK. Probably also OK for those that only use them in city cycle. Of course, the 3.7 V-6 is not even offered in a 4WD truck the last time I looked. It is a compromise vehicle. The Colorado is coming with their 3.5 V-6 as top line engine (didn't double-check that displacement number) which appears to be a decent option. Will be a while as we learn more about the vehicle and the small diesels they are bringing in may also be an option. But looks like it will be a nice mid-size truck offering. Various cabs and 4WD across the line. Unfortunately for some of us that want to buy American, it may very well be the only choice in a reasonably sized, capable pick-up that delivers decent everyday gas mileage and hopefully good highway mileage. Haven't bought a foreign vehicle since the early 80's and never bought a Chevy. But, Ford is forcing the hand here.