goingincirclez

:eek5: So this is how Japan repays us for buying all their Camcords.

The Caddy full-nav IP is pretty awesome. Very clean and elegant, and not as crowded as one might think. I'm even inclined to like the Chevy modular one. It would be pretty sweet if the speedometer face rotated so that your current speed was always centered.... kind of like a visualized cross between an analog and the old digital speedometers. (Maybe that's what the concept does do, but it wasn't totally clear) The other IP stacks and don't seem like anything special to me, just evolutions of current designs. Personally I'm not a big fan of "poke through" knobs... I mean, we had those back when radios had 8-tracks in them. Meh.

Necessary evil? You know, to recapture as many "This is the LAST Ford (or GM or Dodge or whatever) I will ever own" minds as possible. Just think, it could have worked on all those former Tempo or 3.8L Taurus owners If they'd been convinced to step up to a newer improved product (which by most accounts the newer ones were more reliable) they might never have defected to Hondoyota in the first place... In the case of the SuperDuty... there's a lot Navistar-born ill-will brewing in many of those customers and they need to retain as many as they can.

That is just retarded. So the next time you're watching the news and you see some same ol' story about...: - Elderly person (loses control / mistakes gas for brake / has heart attack / falls asleep) and plows into (crowd / storefront / playground) or - Drunk driver (runs red light / speeds / loses control / passes out) and (severely injures/ kills) someone or - Fleeing (robber/ muderer/ drug dealer/ etc ) (causes fatal accident/ used vehicle for getaway/ used vehicle as weapon) or - (young new driver/ street racer/ nascar wannabe) (misjudges conditions/ speeds to fast/ drags/ tries to impress friends) and (causes fatal accident) ...and the vehicles involved are domestic models, you're going to picket them too? Because American lives were at stake and at cost, and clearly it was Ford/GM/Chryco's duty to keep them from the Elderly/ Young/ Criminal/ Incompetent?? I bet ambulance chasers love you. Face it, when it comes to American Lives, we are our own worst enemy here at home no less, and whomever built the damn car usually has nothing to do with it.

SO cheap, it looks just like the CAD rendering!

+1 for the ice-cooler. Although the fridge insulation should theoretically retain the cold air long enough to have the same sustaining chill effect - without melting ice. In that case it could be a draw. If Ford wants to portray the Flex as the "ultimate FLEXible road-trip vehicle": IF they offered the choice of a fridge or cooler... they should make the cooler insert removable. Perfect to take to the beach plot or campfire or whatever. That would be an awesome feature; one befitting the positioning of the vehicle, AND one they could trump over their competitors. Shouldn't cost too much more to do this.

Sorry, it's not a better idea when it costs you $800 for the privilege. For the amount of use that fridge would actually get... I'll take the $50 upgrade of otherwise wasted empty space any day. Now what Ford COULD do... is have a bin or whatever.... outfitted cooler-style (you provide the ice) for cheap bastards like me. THEN, they upgrade said bin with the fridge workings for people who want to drop the coin. That way they still offer something for everyone with the same interior tooling, keeping costs down. But that's so easy and obvious, they probably can't do it

Amen to that! Here's another thing about the Fairmont: It looked like it was made of Legos. Unfortunately, Legos would been more reliable. Friend had an '81 2-door. We called it The Borg Ship because it was just as boxy and ugly, and assimilated every damn mechanical problem you could think of. (But to its credit, the moniker became more fitting - after a while he refused to spend much more money on it, so it started to "fix itself"! Lost reverse in the transmission one day, had it like that for a couple weeks. Then he egged him on about it, so he just gunned it in R one day and with a gradual creak and groan, POOF it finally shot back into reverse!) For a parts bin car it ran well enough, but my god what a POS. They were among the best-selling cars back in the day, yet you RARELY ever see them. Gee, what could be the reason? There's another lesson from the Fairmont. My friend's was so-optioned to be a "Futura". I still have that badge that FELL OFF in a toolbox somewhere. Ford or course wanted to name the Fusion, "Futura" before they realized they let the trademark lapse. And that trademark snafu just might be the best Ford Fuckup in history, because it actually saved their ass. If they had come out with a new "Futura", myself and the 40 or so other people who knew this guy's car would have run away screaming. A reborn "Tempo" would be the same thing. Don't take it personally. I myself am weird enough to love the old Granada, but I well know that's another name that should forever rest.

The last time Ford was truly kicking ass in the USA, say 1988-1997, their lineup looked something like this: BASE ----------- PERFORMANCE Festiva --------- (yougottabekidding) Escort ---------- Escort GT Tempo --------- (ha-ha!) Contour -------- SVT Contour Taurus --------- Taurus SHO Thunderbird --- Thunderbird TC / SC Mustang ------- Mustang GT Probe ---------- Probe GT F150 ----------- Lightning Aerostar ------ (um, no, but the Windstar had 200hp WAY before anyone else) Notice the trend? Almost every offering, save the most utilitarian and cheap, had a higher-spec'd performance option that offered varying degrees of legitimate gains. They were not always big sellers, but they no doubt got attention and perhaps convinced someone to get a base model if they couldn't afford the GT/SC/SVT or whatever. Hell, even the base models of Probe and Thunderbird were somewhat sport; those in the know appreciated the Contour's sporty handling; and yes, 200hp was virtually unheard of in a MINIVAN when Windstar debuted (granted it was that overworked POS 3.8 trying to deliver the goods, but hey - at least Dad Racer had a compelling reason to consider at Ford at the time). What is so hard about the "performance/sport trim level concept", for Ford 200X to understand and implement? All we get are dealer-markup Mustang packages. Whoop-dee-freekin-dee. Ford was most successful when nearly every car in the lineup had a reasonably well-executed "halo" version to attract attention.

Wow... I just built a sensibly-optioned Flex with every item I "need", comparable to the old Freestyle, for a hair under 30K. That's a lot better than I expected! And they had a dark blue, too! Sadly, that's probably still outside my ideal price range but I would spend $30K on the Flex over a Freestyle/Taurus X any day. And there's no way I'd got $35K+ on something like this, so... at least they're still in the ballpark. I was a little surprised at the expense of some options though. $200-300 LED lights? $800 mini-fridge (WTF, you can get a full-size HOUSE model for that), and the aforementioned stereo/NAV stuff.

Riddle me this Batman! What's worse: A) The "skanky, no-class, (insert additional vernacular slam of your choice here), stupid rich white girl" OR B ) The society obsessed with same (to the point of posting her on an wholly unrelated AUTOMOTIVE site)

There's a perfect anecdotal case in point: The Ford Festiva. Like its contemporary Geo Metro, a car that got ridiculously high manage in small but practical package. I bet you thought, "yeah, I remember those pieces of crap. Cheap cars that all died within a few years." WRONG! They have all come out of the woodwork in the last couple years. I see at least two per week, and not always the same commuters either. Now why is a high-mileage car that hasn't been built or sold in almost 15 years suddenly more visible? Because nobody cares about gas mileage until they HAVE to. Otherwise, it's just not cool. The Festiva was a perfect point-A-to-B, enclosed scooter - the "appliance" the sheep allegedly want - yet nobody wanted to be caught in one. But they sure mothballed 'em until it was forcibly convenient to use them again, didn't they? Otherwise, yeah, they'd just keep gathering garage dust. Because celebrity image is everything.

Not after they read it...

Wow... seeing it next to that Volvo wagon in traffic, the Flex is quite a big bigger than it looks in all the other pics seen so far. Definitely not just a "stretch Xb". They may be on to something here...

Mercury and Sixt9 - Thanks for the explanations. It does make some sense, and I HAVE seen this on other cars: mostly Corollas, Kias, Suzukis, Hondas, and the like... and even on their plain-ol' Crayola 8 colors...! HOWEVER, with that said, and your explanation generally understood as sensible... WHY is this STILL a problem on a $40K vehicle??! Those cars I mentioned are cheapos and some amount of corner cutting is understandable if not expected. But on a $40K premium vehicle, I should think not! And really, I get it... you might always have your subtle, gotta-squint-in-the-light differences... but then there's those Taurus X pics above which are just horrible. Absolutely Unacceptable. I mean plastics are not a new space-age material. They've had at least 20 years to figure this bonding and adhesion thing out. At the very least, could they not use PRIMER? Personally, something like that is an absolute 100% deal-killer for me. If I buy a brand-new car, I expect the paint to MATCH everywhere it's applied. I will NOT accept a paint job that looks like a Maaco special. Think about it... would you want your car that just came off the assembly line, to share its finish with a faded 10 or 15-year old beater that just recently had a fender replaced and painted? If some colors are more noticeable, again... they should have an extra prep process to minimize that for those particular colors. Or use a different kind of plastic. Or different color plastic. Or primer. Whatever it takes. Or else do not use a color that makes it look like Bubba just Kryloned the bumper on your shiny new Ford. Why bother painting them at all then?

I've always thought the Highlander looks like a cheap Grand Cherokee knockoff (another Toyota "design yoink"). Always looked bigger than the Freestyle to me and I could never understand why the two were compared. It was rushed to compete with the Explorer and then suddenly, oh, it's not!

Wow, an overall positive review. The comment about wind noise was interesting, as my in-laws bought a used Freestyle and I was actaully surprised at how noisy it seemed. Nice to see that addressed. I do think the styling changes will help. I never thought the Freestyle was "bad"... just bland... but the Taurus X does look more refined and I love the uptick in the headlights. I no longer have reservations on the styling like I did the Freestyle. There IS one, HUGE flaw that deeply concerns me, however: What gives with the paint on the bumper cover? It doesn't even come close to matching! If THIS is what Ford's new attention to fit, finish, and quality is giving us - on a loaded, near $40K vehicle no less! - I really do have concerns for them that I didn't before.

:censored: Man, that just really pisses me off, even more so than I already disliked Toyota. Now I want to take a sledge to every one that I see. Do they not have a SINGLE BRAIN CELL for an IOTA of original thought? Is it not enough for them to primarily rip off other designs (primarily Ford's at that), and desperately spin and weasel their way into the "American Way".... now they have to rip off Ford's damn ADVERTISING as well??? W.T.F! Must.... resist.... Georgetown is only a half-hour from here.... (If I do something to get myself arrested later on, I'm blaming you, Rich. You just HAD to throw that up there! )

Yeah, I should have been clearer, because I knew about those cars you cited... but I like how Ford just tied the head and driving lights together, yet still broke up the grill area with some color. Truth be told, I don't much car for the new VW treatments. Looks too much like a "fish-pok mouth" to me. The Ford on the other hand, looks like Zorro... or something.

Mewants. NOW. Gardamn is that blackmask treatment original, fresh, and surprisingly awesome looking too. Who came up with that one? I love it. That "base model chop" is great too!

Thank you for proving my point! It is a subjective matter of further design refinement (or lack of it). There was a reason I posted that 2007 Corvette: from wheel to fascia, it does have a pronounced overhang. But you don't notice it because they added a bit of sculpting to create a recessed curve at the bottom edge. So yes, it is an illusion. But if you are going to buy into illusions, then you must realize that photo of the Edge, is a dead-straight profile shot, with hideous black bumpers. It will look nicer from an angle, and with some color to break it up. Also, you really cannot sculpt round corners and llusional trickery into a car whose design is was inspired by a kleenex box. Then you have a conflict of language. But I stand by my statement with photographic proof: in terms of dimensions, the overhangs are NOT the problem. The rest of the design... the "box language" in this case, may be. For the record I happen to like it... but then I always liked the County Squire as well (because they won every demo derby I saw one in, and there were plenty of those) :shades:

My point was that overhangs do not necessarily make or break a car's design, desiribility, or timelessness. But since you still want to play: (Check out the rear of that new BMW 5-series! Is it 1960? ) Once again... if the Flex has a subjective design/aesthetics problem, it's NOT in overhangs. Meelaan at least tried to explain his position further. Thanks for playing!

"ZOMG OVERHANG OVERHANG OVERHANG!!!" :beatdeadhorse: Is "overhang" the secret word at PeeWee's Playhouse this month? Sheez, just give it a rest already: So there's a gallery of cars, likely at least one of which most of you (to your own individual taste) would be more than happy to own, ALL of which, by the carrying on here, have "ridiculous overhangs" - even more so than the Flex in some cases. :rolleyes: This concludes today's lesson. If you're going to criticize the Flex's styling, find a new design buzzword to harp on.

Wasn't Ford going to actually start visibly badging their PZEV vehicles as such?? If not, then WHY NOT START? I mean, sheez... whether E85 will save us all or not, GM has been milking that one lately and yet Ford had the first sizable fleets of E85-capable vehicles (Taurus and Ranger) a decade ago. Speaking of which, they should revive that "FFV" logo. I always thought that was clever and cool, and it would speak to the new crop of "eco-wannabes" who missed it the first time, you know, because it wasn't "celebrity cool" back then.

Exactly. That's how they gained their momentum, by dumping and undercutting. Everyone knows they sold those cars for a LOSS the first few years. And in doing so they managed to not only leapfrog their other japanese pseudo-luxury competition (Infiniti, Acura) but ultimately caught even the germans off-guard. The cars spoke for themselves and allowed them to raise the prices later. The fact they are applying this philosophy retroactively to the Tundra doesn't mean squat. They can AFFORD to sell their truck at a loss because they have a cash pile, and their cars make up the money besides. Detroit does NOT have this luxury. True. They did not have a White Elephant for Lexus staring them dowm. Just a new plant in a little place called Gerogetown, KY that was also new at the time. And they played patiently with the Camry, as they had to, because the domestics were stronger back then. They are no longer, which brings us back to... See #1. You don't need to incentivize a car that you're ALREADY giving away! And if they truly wanted to be taken seriously in the Luxury market (which we know they did and do), they surely knew that incentives are a no-no. How do you tink GM feels about their shiny new Silverado? Pride is a deadly sin, and they'll have to do something. Read my reply to #1 again. If Toyota is worried about losing a little face for now, in the long run it doesn't matter. They'll cut their nose to save their face. By applying pricing pressure to the domestics' truck lines, they're going for thier last pumping jugular. In the long run, it's not about a shiny plant in Texas or "devaluing" the Tundra (in similar fashion to how Lexus was initially "devalued"). What is so hard to see about that? The new plant in Texas is all the more incentive to them, to build and sell every Tundra they can, no matter the cost. You know the press will give them a pass and just look at total sales anyway. I hope I'm wrong. I hope that Toyota's incentives have about as much long-term effect on the domestics' trucks, as the domestics' "employee pricing" incentives did to japanese cars. Which is of course to say: none. Unfortuantely, even back then the domestics were facing an extremely hostile market perception, and were too financially weak to sustain the giveaways for long enough to make the japcos match. Toyota, on the other hand, has none of those concerns.