Automotive Paint

I should mention I'm not only single but childless so this seems like a lot of cheese for nothing....

My house on 5 acres in a metro ATL suburb has a street value of ~$315K but an 'assessed' valued of $269K. With Homestead Exemption my taxes are $2900 but without Homestead they would be $3900. The tag on my last 06 Mustang GT was $375 this April for a nearly 1 year old car! I travel to Florida all the time and typically stay on the water when I work a town. Each time I pick up a coastal real estsate book and every other ad is 'reduced' 'bring offer' 'motivated seller'. If I were in the position for a 2nd home I would think if one spent a week looking and making low ball offers a great deal could be found but I'm not in that position so I'll never know. Car, boat and motorcycle sales along with housing are down for 2007 and I see the same in 08. A lot of people like myself are still making good money with solid returns in the stock market via retirement funds and the like but the mental hang up many have is they think their house has lost value so the aren't spending money. My dad and I own a business together and we are making more money than we have ever made this year but we are re-investing every penny in the business so needless to say we aren't afraid. Don't forget in 2006 American's took 1 TRILLION dollars of equity out of their homes and many pissed it away on things that make this economy churn. Now the mortgage lenders have tightened up lending standards and rightfully so IMO.

Stupid question: If Ford filed bankruptcy and restructured would that break their contract with the employees/UAW or is that up to the judge?

Just today via an email Vigil Ford sent me this regarding F-150's: 2% Under invoice + $2007 Bonus Cash + 1.9 for 60 The funny thing is I never inquired about an F-150 from them only an Exploder so this is obviously a result of said article.

Just to be clear I see bankruptcy in two years not the demise of Ford as a whole.

As a relatively loyal Ford consumer who also invests himself and watches or listens to CNBC daily my gut tells me unless Ford simply screws you the workers on your next UAW contract Ford has less than 2 years. I'm not wishing bad luck on anyone but just as Delta's bankruptcy was a given several years in advance Ford's looks inevitable as well. I hate to hear about your situation Fordbuyer. When my former neighbor retired out of the ATL plant in the late 90's he had a ton of money in Ford stock and now he simply has a ton of shares. Every time I see him and the subject comes up he says, "When it gets back to $20 I'm going to sell it all." I tell him it will never happen in his lifetime though it might in his grandkids (who he is willing it to). The sad part about this is since the early 90's when I was in HS when we would discuss Ford and his bragging about its share price I would tell him the biggest mistake he and his generation continue to make is investing in the company they work for. The company already owns your ass 40+ hrs per week so WITF would you let them control your personal financial future as well?

As a loyal Ford owner I hate to burst your bubble but the nearly non-stop incentives found particularly on the Big 3 models aren't about providing value or saving the customer money. It's simple stupidity on part of the manufacturer because since these consistent and heavy rebates started in 01 domestic resale has taken a serious dump. Imagine if you are one of the millions of people that buys a new ride in the first few months of the model year when rebates typically aren't offered then as usual by mid-model year the consistent $2500 rebate is back on the unit. Not only are you pissed you missed the rebate but because that vehicle is know to have rebates the trade in dealer or private buyer is going to factor in current incentives into what the car is being traded for or sold for. Rebates as a result of over production and/or over pricing is destroying the Big 3 not quality concerns. The Toyota Sequoia which is totally dated at the end of its current design cycle has a $1500 rebate in the biggest Big 3 town in the USA which also has the highest foreclose rate? So what? Here in ATL there isn't an SUV in it's class that can match the resale of the antiquated Toyota. I'd say that has to be because they don't have to whore the stupid thing up to sell it. The 07 Tahoe and Expedition are totally redesigned and there incentives are what after less than a full year of being produced? Before the flame war starts I wouldn't piss on a Toyota if it was on fire BUT rebates are killing not only your brand perception but your consumers resale. As a matter of fact every time I have negotiated on anything with a rebate I demanded we start at invoice pricing and go down from there because I pointed out to the salesman ANYTHING with a rebate is loser that should be sold for less than invoice minus rebate because if it were a winner you could sell it without a rebate right??? The Big 3 has to drop the prices then drop the rebates.

The one thing the Big 3 doesn't have overall is RESALE! As someone (business owner who drives a lot) who has methodically and carefully bought new and traded every ~14 months for the last 13 years I see 2 major reasons why Big 3 resale tends to but not always lag significantly behind the Toyota's and the Honda's: 1. The Big 3 must produce more units than the market can absorb which leads to predictable rebates month after month year after year which kills resale. How many people do you think have tried to trade their 2-3 yo Big 3 ride and heard, "The reason we can't give you x is because the new units have $2000-$4000 rebates and special financing and this makes your car worth several $1000 less than what it should be." How many times will John Q Consumer take a bath at trade time before he realizes there must be a model in this class that has better than average or excellent resale? Which leads me to.... 2. The Japs for the most part across the country sell consistent packages/sub-models with minimal actual available options while the Big 3 models for the most part have a laundry list of options that will be worth little or most likely nothing at trade time. I bet any used car manager in this country knows for the most part what that Accord V-6 SE is going to look like inside and out before he ever walks around the building to appraise it because they are consistently equipped from package to package and car to car. Now if he has an XLT F-250 PSD he has no clue what he's getting into until he sees it because that truck could literally have $10K in options and that doesn't even include the diesel motor and auto tranny options. This ala cart philosophy the Big 3 seems to be fascinated with kills its consumer when it comes time to trade because the majority of options on a well equipped vehicle don't even show up in the 'books' and the ones that do rarely amount to squat. Packages/sub models like XLT, FX4, Lariat need to be standardized in a way which they all but define the unit without seeing it. The only options should be big ticket items like NAV, DVD and Sunroof that actually show up a NADA book. Just my .02 as a consumer who has not only bought a lot of vehicles for himself but has brokered deals for family and close friends.

"Regarding TT longevity and reliability: Ford is apparently considering a TT setup on the F150, which means millions of miles of simulated and actual road use. I don't think that reliability is going to be a *huge* issue." That's not only what they said about the 6 liter joke but the fire breathing 6.4 as well. Having owned 3 psd's and been all over the diesel message boards for years I can tell you those millions of miles of testing they did on the 6 liter didn't do chit to help the thousands of buybacks they had or 100's of millions in warranty claims either. Then they drop the ball with the fire belching 6.4 and its bad set of injectors (just like the 6 liter had at launch) and all of a sudden any chance Ford had at resurrecting the PSD brand all but failed. Hell, I'm a Ford/PSD/Diesel guy and I haven't considered a PSD since I bought my 03 6 liter and that's why I'm driving a gasser trash F-150 now. A diesel in the F-150 is the only thing that will get me back into a Ford diesel again and that will only be after they sell 100K so I can get some feedback.

I have an 06 Premium automatic with 33K on the clock since 9/06 and it's not the previously mentioned build quality that sucks it's the component/parts design that sucks. I had the shitty fuel pump problem, I lost an alternator at 14K, I have a nice hole in my carpet from 'normal wear and tear' and the cheesy plastic piece that cover the trunk lock mechanism simply gave up, broke and fell off. Since seats were mentioned the leather power drivers seat sucks for more than 2 hours of driving IMO. This isn't a $30K MSRP car its a $26K MSRP at best. With the cruise on @ 81 the car gets around 23.5 on the idiot meter which is usually off 7-10% on Fords in my experience and with a decent Xcal2 programmer runs 13.61 @ 100 with 2.06-2.08 60ft times. I still enjoy the hell out of this car because even though its an overweight pig its fun to drive, gets looks from envious miserable bastards in minivans and it pulls ass in traffic. That said I would not buy another one or recommend it to anyone other than a 21 yo. Unless the summer fuel prices incite $10K discounts off MSRP on the Expedition this will probably be my last Ford because I don't like what I see which is sad to me because I've spent no less than 400K miles in Fords since 98.

Wow! Ya'll are some angry mofo's especially toward someone who since 98 has continued to be brand loyal and purchased well over $100K of your Furd's even though based on the declining sales during this same period other Ford loyalist left and never looked back. These early 06 II tests are why I said I refuse to be caught dead in a Fusion and while the frontal impact looks great in both minus the driver's foot issue which the Fusion scores worse on but even so it's not worth splitting hairs over but regardless of how much Ford Kool Aid you drink you can't tell me you would want to be T-Boned in an 06 Fusion because unlike the VW which has the highest II overall rating on it's side impact of 'Good' the overall side impact rating of the Fusion isn't 'acceptable', 'marginal' but the lowest possible rating of 'poor' . Fusion side http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=621 Fusion front http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=631 VW front http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=231 VW side http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=276 I would imagine these star ratings you refer to are from the antiquated government testing but I'm sorry I've been around the collision indsutry too long to know that the II testing all around is far more demanding of the vehicle based on simple physics alone and their decision to perform 40/60 frontal offset test vs. a head-on like the gov't is based on realistic crash data. Did I decide on the VW for her because it was the safest car in the world? No. Did I base my decision on fresh crash data from the II between two brand new models in a class and price range that we happened to be shopping at the time? Yes. i couldn't agree more with the posts about the previous gen Jetta being a major POS but after reading good reviews on the new model I said what the hell. Even with the positive reviews just like the Fusion at the time they both were new designs without previous model year history to go though both VW and Ford had piss poor track records overall with regards to both reliabilty and resale of its small and midsized cars. This is why she LEASED the VW. With nothing down she pays $229 per for 30 months on VW that could have turned into a POS like its previous generation which in return would have tanked the resale and I would have actually cared about resale had it been purchased. Like I said it has been trouble free and pretty cheap to drive. I didn't post about the VW lease to rationalize it's purchase because it's nothing more than a leased vehicle that gets thrown away at the end of the term. All I wanted to do was show you primarily Ford employees that I didn't write off the Fusion which was initially my first and only choice (how many customers like this do you have left?) because it's a Ford, because Toyota is God or because I hate UAW employees but simply because it sucked ass in a legitimate side impact test. Are there safer vehicle out there? Yes, but based on the fresh testing at the time of two brand new vehicles in the class we were considering I chose the one I would be willing to get in wreck in. Flame all you want because I'm thick skinned and it doesn't bother me. Just know that even considering Ford's overall sorry ass track record and flagrant mismanagement as of the last decade I, unlike 10's of millions of other people in this country who wouldn't bat an eye, personally hope they don't file bankruptcy or at worst go out of business but that said in my logical eyes bankruptcy is all but inevitable. Like I said keep the BS coming because I can take it but in all sincerity I hope not one more Ford employee has to be bought out/laid off/fired.

A month doesn't tell you much and don't forget a lot of people won't spend this year because of the depressing new from the housing market which in many places haven't peaked. Plus many predict worst case scenario we are due for a mild recession next year and best case scenario the economy will only continue to slow. Doom and gloom plays a role in consumer spending. Also, how units did freightliner sell in March, YTD and in 06?

Let's hope not...I was just going by what I read.

With General Motors and Toyota both having new full-size pickups in showrooms this year, Ford is understandably keen to push up the development cycle of its pivotal Ford F-150, likely due as a 2009 model. Don't rush it you idiots! Ford rushed the 6 liter PSD because they were scared of the Duramax and it resulted in 100's of millions in warranty claims and lost market share in the diesel pu market which they once dominated. Have we not learned from our major mistakes???? deja vu

If that Transit or whatever it is doesn't show up with a diesel Ford doesn't need to bother and E350 is a totally different animal compared to a Sprinter. One of the advantages the Sprinter has over a E350 is you can stand straight up and walk through whether you are looking for a seat or pulling product off a shelf. I have a retailer in Orlando that runs Sprinters loaded with inventory on shelving and have ridden in them multiple times myself. The biggest draw to the Sprinter is the diesel motor that gets 18-22 on the hwy depending on speed and how its driven. The other advantage over a 350 is size because the most popular Sprinter is a tall roof LWB model. Ford needs to get off their arse and get that thing over here equipped with a diesel.

The 500 wasn't worth the extra money when she drives 12 miles RT to work each day plus she was 29 at the time so the 500 is a granny car in her eyes compared to a Fusion. The above crash test of POOR which was right after the launch was what I recalled and no VW didn't have those crash commercials out at the time but they did have those stupid pimp my ride commercials for the GTI or whatever. VW doesn't have a clue how to market a car in the US but at the time it served her basic needs which was a cheap, safe commuter and like I said I was determined to buy a Fusion before looking at it and w/o looking at anything else. The VW idea happened spontaneously as we were driving by a closed VW dealer one night and I knew the Jetta was new, crashed well and priced the same so we took a look. I myself am not crazy about eating airbags let alone filling a family car with 6, 8 or 10 of them like the current trend but crash testing is proving their worthiness for the most part. The 91 Accord analogy was shooting from the hip but I'm sure you Ford employees can recall the era where the US cars had the safety advantage over the Japs. I was still school at the time and being the avid Jap car hater that I was I threw this anyones face that wanted to personify Jap cars like the Accord that was chit hot at the time. I'm still a Ford guy deep down so know I'm pulling for Ford's survival but corporate needs to get their chit together fast.

Let me preface this with that fact I've purchased 5 new Fords since 1998, my g/f has purchased 4 since 97 and her uncle just got chit canned for the closed ATL plant after 12 years of service. A year ago the g/f wanted to dump her slower than dirt gas guzzling 04 2wd F-150 about the time the Fusion launched. It was winter 06 and fuel prices had eased so the gas guzzling p/u's were worth something again and we basically decided on Fusion because it was a Ford product she could 'plan' and a Furd dealer would most likely give her the best trade on her pu. Well, I never let her see one in person. Why you ask? Because the Insurance Institute (the only one with practical testing std's) just all but labeled the Fusion a death trap and since I actually like the g/f I told her it was no longer an option. Now here is what will really stir the pot: She leased an 06 170hp Jetta with a 6sp auto for $229 per with nothing down for 30 months and with the previous generation of Jetta's and their resale a lease was the only way I would consider one. This car excelled in IT crash testing where the Fusion flopped, it gets 29 mpg on the highway and has yet to see a dealer after 12K. Sure, VW is German company and the Jetta is built by burrito eaters but those same burrito eaters eat lunch with the Fusion employees and her safety trumped a single unit sale for Ford that might yield them $1000 in corporate profit. Remember, in the late 80's and early 90's when Big 3 quality still sucked and the Japs started picking up market share by promoting their quaility the Big 3 countered with crash ratings because the Japs didn't take them serious at the time and it worked in the short term. Now, Ford expects me to buy an 06/07 vehicle that performs on same chitty level of what a 91 Accord probably scored in Honda's pre-safety days? I see 10's of thousands of wrecked vehicles per year in my line of work and at least in this house safety trumps where a companies corporate headquarters is located. We want to buy Ford again but give us a reason.

Do a Google search for Duramax, Cummins and RV forums then search for within these sites for 6.4 PSD. The 6.4 is literally the biggest joke in the diesel pickup business right now with no thanks to the disaster of motor called the 6 liter. You need to remember part of the joke on the 6.4 is the 6.o from inception had injectors problems, turbo problems and what turned into literally 100's of different ECM re-flashes. Luckily the trial lawyers never picked on the fact these reflashes made Ford's initial 6.0 advertising completely fraudulent such as 10% better fuel economy than the 7.3 and whatever they claimed about it being quieter. Not to mention these reflashes made the orginal tow/haul feature all but useless. I actually owned a 5/03 6.0 (and 2 7.3's before) that was problem free but I'm in the minority and make no mistake the 6.0 has destroyed a market in which Ford owned not too mention Ford makes as much as $20K on the PSD's it still can manage to sell. Now, the 6.0 has little credibility, the 6.4 had an embarrassing disaster of a launch and rumors are Ford is designing a diesel to be built in house for 2010. Tell me exactly how much credibility Ford has building an in house in a market where 3 major name brand diesel builders currently supply the Big 3 with diesel motors? I'm still a Ford guy but if the 6.4 doesn't seal Ford's fate and they attempt to put a Ford diesel in the Super Duty they are done in the heavy duty pu market.

As stated the TC is dated and IMO by at least a decade. The last TC my mom had was an 02 and I fail to see much of an evolution since. By chance the other day I noticed the TC Sig has a $7K rebate and when you subtract that from an invoice of $38,xxx one can buy a top of the line (FWIW) TC for $31K maybe less. I drive 1K miles per week and trade cars yearly so I brought this deal up to him last night more as joke than anything while we chugged beers and he made a good point which is even if that car was purchased for $31K and driven normal miles resale would suck arse and the only person that car would make sense for would be someone who was going to drive normal miles and keep it for 5, 7 or 10 years which is sad but the norm lately. I don't know how it is in other areas but here in ATL up until a few years ago when gas spiked Caddy sold a ton of Escalades to wanna be rapper crowd here in ATL (the new motown if you will) primarily because you can't listen to a rap song that doesn't have paid Escalades plug in and Caddy was smart enough to freshen the model up yearly so there was no question everyone knew you were driving last years dated goods just by looking at the grill. I also believed what helped is Caddy leases roughly 70% of its vehicles and you could get into $65K Escalade for $599 per month which spoke well to its target audience. The funny part about ATL is once the wanna be rapper's take to a vehicle like the Escalade, H2, H3, 300C, Charger, everything Jeep except the Wrangler and Liberty the white folks literally stop buying them so not to be associated with the wheel spinning riff-raff. As soon as the economy soften and gas spiked a few years ago Escalades on 24's all but disappeared over night. Here in ATL all the TV advertising on the aforementioned vehicles is targeted toward the urban crowd but this same crowd usually suffers the worst when the economy softens and I believe that is what we are seeing with Caddy.

I think everyone is over analyzing this myself. I truly believe in most cases the Big 3 quality is on par with the Japs and not the factor driving people to buy Japanese. As someone who buys a new ride for business every ~14 months or so IMO the biggest problem the Big 3 has is crappy re-sale overall due to too many vehicles being produced which then require incentives to sell. How many people have sat down at a Big 3 dealer post 9/11 and heard, "Your trade is worth less than it should because the new models have 0% or a $4K rebate on them." A perfect example is the Japs didn't 0% the Camry to death to move it post 9/11 therefore it has excellent resale. Now compare the resale and incentives on the Big 3's comparable cars, look at how many people have bought those comparable cars only since 9/11 and imagine what they are offered for trade on those cars after 2 or 3 years of ownership. IMO the Big 3 builds a nice car but they must build too many to sustain the plant in which they are built which in return over-supplies the market. I really think it's that simple.

I liked the new style Mustang since it came out and said I would buy one when they put 0% on them for 60 months and they did just that for roughly a week here in GA. What really pushed me over the edge was I had an in demand 05 VW diesel that was bringing good money because of gas prices that also happened to be modded for drag racing to the point where it was slap wore out and needed head work if not a motor because something was washing down the oil to the point it where it would waste the bearings on the turbo in 500 miles or so. The blue smoke went away once it was warm and it ran fine with the exception of the turbo issue so I slapped a free used turbo on it drove it to my friendly Ford store because I knew they wouldn't even pop the hood to see a totally modified setup. It test drove fine, some VW dealer bought it sight unseen and I drove home in a new 06 Mustang GT Premium automatic. (It's buyer beware in GA and I screwed a dealer that would have screwed me in a second if allowed so yes I laugh myself to sleep every night.) While the Mustang is night and day different than the previous gen it has some stupid quirks...some big some small: 1. Even with TCS off the POS won't spin the tires! It's a sports car right? 1b. The stock tranny calibration sucks on a good day. 2. It's a porky pig even with 300HP at the motor. 3. The fuel pump caused the car do die in an intersection the first week I had it. 4. The alternator died at 14K 5. The driver's side carpet has bald spots and holes in it after 23K from normal wear and tear 6. Ford scrimped on carpet length too because the front floorboard carpet leading to the firewall is non-existent once it's out of "normal sight". 7. There wasn't one ounce of sound deadening material in the trunk only ~5 squiggly parallel lines of NVH material so I Dynamat Extremed the whole trunk so it didn't sound like the trunk was open when driving. 8. The Shaker 1000 is garbage. 9. Placement and lack of 12V outlets 10. No heated seats on a $30K "premium" car The biggest issue of all is the prices are ridiculous as these cars are no longer affordable for the early 20-something that wants it. IMO by the time that guy can afford it he's married, has rug rat and the old lady probably won't let him have one or he needs something else. I'm probably an atypical GT buyer because I'm 32, single, child-free and have a very respectable income for my age. With the Camaro and Challenger coming out resale in general bothers me some but I'm able to write off all my miles at tax time and @ roughly .44 per mile deduction I really can't complain regardless. I know it's my first post and it sounds like a gripe-fest but believe it or not I'm happy with the car. With the exception of the VW my last new rides have been a 98 Expolder, 99 F-250 PSD, 02 F-250 PSD and an 03 F-250 PSD so I've been a loyal Ford guy who personally knows several displaced ATL Plant employees including the g/f's uncle. There's no question in my mind Ford is circling the bottom of the toilet right now but I'm still pulling for them. I will tell you this: If the 6.4 PSD is anything like the 6.0 Ford is all but done because they have destroyed their diesel reputation which in return destroyed their market share.