level

The dark side of the Force offers unimaginable power.

I have "real" friends, you should try that. These people are only "your" friends as long as they agree to everything you say. And talk about hitting every thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have thousands of posts in less than a year. You should not throw rocks if you live in a glass house.

Thanks paris, You know, this could be a great forum for Ford employees. I wish they would make us use our Ford Global ID's as our password or log ins though. Then we could have a little dignity and respect and actually air out our problems and concerns amongst our co workers.

Listen Furious, you are wrong, but that was pretty funny. Let's argue the points, along with some bullshit and humor, that is all fine.

First of all they will never be the majority- They will only be 10 to 25% of the entire workforce. Look at GM white book pages 111 to 112. They get raises capped at 3.75% - never get a negative result, and they get the lump sum raises each year. On top of that, they get first crack at the higher paying jobs and move up to that rate when there is an opening. We used to have a true two tier system in Ford before, this is not a two tier, it is a grow in that starts lower so all of us working now do not have to take a 5 or 7 dollar an hour pay cut.

I don't know all of this shit. I have always known how to post a thread and start a topic. I do know this much from reading it. The "entry level" get raises every year either 3% or tied to some kind of index (in the highlights) whichever one is higher. I don't even understand the VEBA, but I know that if it is tied to products in the USA, and wallstreet investors are lining up to get involved in it, but not in our junk status stock - it must be good. No one can guess how high healthcare costs will go, but the Government forces you to assume the worst case scenario when you form a VEBA. Many other unions VEBA funds are actually making a 1 to 2 percent profit and this can offset a bad year- or several bad ones down the road because of compounded interest.

Wow, some actual sense. Pleasure to see I am not alone.

I agree, they should be allowed over time to get the higher pay. Whether they do this by seniority or however. I totally agree.

Spring, it is not a two tier - it is entry level with a grow in to the higher paid jobs. I also agree with you that I would rather have that than lower all of our wages for parity. (I think everyone would silently agree) I agree with you an the office visits absolutely, but I did not see that in GM so maybe we are okay there. I agree with you that exec comp is bullshit, but they will never let us dictate that. The press should concentrate on exec comp rather than on ours!!! I disagree on re-openers. I am sick of re-openers. Did we even close the last time?????? Good points you made though.

Entry level future employees have a lower starting wage than the current contract. They also get incremental raises. By seniority, as a master wage (higher paid) employee retires quits or dies, the seniority Entry level employee moves up to the higher paying job. THAT IS FAR FROM A TWO TIER. TWO TIER IS PERMANENT- ENTRY LEVEL WITH RAISES AND SENIORITY PROMOTIONAL OPPORTUNITY IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!! We have already voted on and passed COA's at many if not all of the Ford plants that outsourced Material handling, cribs, stores etc. THE ENTRY LEVEL BRINGS THIS WORK BACK TO OUR LOCALS AND PLANTS!!!!!!!!! Ford is constantly investing outside of the U.S. currently THE ENTRY LEVEL MAKES US COMPETITIVE AND FORCES THEM TO INVEST MONEY AND JOBS INTO THE U.S. Currently the health care costs are a liability on an already failing company, albeit it is not our fault for the failure- the fact remains. THE VEBA WILL ALLEVIATE FORD FROM BILLIONS IN LIABILITY AND ALLOW INVESTMENT INTO OUR PLANTS AND NEW PRODUCTS. Having said all of that, as more and more plants close here in the U.S., let's wait, ask questions and make a decision then. There are many differences in GM and Chrysler, but many of you are misinterpreting them. Chryslers product promises were weaker than GM's, but even so, they were bought by a strip and flip that promised 15 billion in investment and about 4 years of product. I never heard of a strip and flip doing such a thing. Venture capital groups buy, destroy and sell while stealing profit and life blood out of pensions, benefits etc.. It is more likened to a near death experience that they were lucky to survive. I wish them all well, but I am glad I am not in their shoes. At least the Ford family has a history with us. Right now at Ford we have Temporary full time, temporary part time etc all making lower wages, not gaining seniority, not getting benefits and pensions, no product future for us or them. WHAT MAKES THE ENTRY LEVEL ANY BETTER OR WORSE THAN WHAT WE ARE ALREADY DOING? Lets all try something new. No attacks on what eachother has to say, or on eachother. Just talk the issue. Think you can do it brothers and sisters???????

Sounds like you already made up your mind a little prematurely. #1 - There is no two tier wage, just a lower starting pay with a grow in period to get to the higher wage jobs. READ THE LANGUAGE PEOPLE. YOU ASK FOR MORE TIME (7 DAYS) TO READ FORD'S LANGUAGE, BUT YOU HAVE HAD LONGER THAN THAT TO READ GM AND CHRYSLER AND YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND IT? I am neither endorsing it, nor condemning it, I am saying that you are incorrectly interpreting what you have either read or not read. Wait for the language, read it, attend your informational meeting, ask questions and then vote your conscience - just like we do all the other contracts. Your Union rep is probably worried. Car payments, house payments etc. have us all worried in these times, that is why job security and investment in the U.S. must be our main priority. GM did it, but Chrysler fell a little short on promises other than investing 15 billion - people wanted to know where, my plant? your plant? etc. Hopefully Ford will be more like GM when it comes to plant products and investments, let's wait and see Kimber.

How can everyone here know you? You are just like the rest of us, typing somewhere in the world at a PC. I am not a supervisor or an international rep. You say you saw a supervisor typing on blue oval? I believe the supervisors are the ones stirring up the shit, not the ones telling us to vote yes. What part of anything I have said do you disagree with?

People, where the hell did this "two tier" thing even start? Can't anyone read? That is why I hate the newspapers and the radical sites like SOS. One misinforms you unintentionally because they don't know any better- and the other misinforms you intentionally, because they have a personal agenda. It is a new entry level. I am looking at the Chrysler and GM highlights and these entry level even get the 3%, 3% and 4% percent raises the last three years of the contract. On top of that they get first crack at the higher paying jobs when someone retires, so that higher paying work is not going away. Capt723, I don't think these people are reading the same highlights and language as you and me. That's why the SOS site is bullshit. They are misleading people as to the actual language, IT IS NOT A TWO TIER, IT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN OUR CURRENT STARTING PAY, JUST A LITTLE LOWER AND THEY STILL HAVE A RIGHT TO GO TO THE HIGHER PAYING JOBS BY SENIORITY. READ THE LANGUAGE- NOT THE HYPE - IT IS IN BLACK AND WHITE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen, I was just making a point. I did not disagree with the brother from Lima's issues. I only stated that his issues are no reason to point people to the far left or right at such a site. That doesn't help anyone, nor lend credibility to their argument.

response to zoomerjrt and CMSJ Apparently you don't have all of your facts. The Catepillar VEBA was only funded to last 4 years, as it was only meant to get them through to the next contract, with the hopes of expanding it later. The UAW VEBA is funded for 80 years from what I read, which means that every employee working there as of the contract date, will be dead and buried in the ground before their healthcare ever runs out. That means we all have healthcare for life - even if ford goes bankrupt. What kind of idiot would vote against that? Learn your facts, ask valid questions and make an informed decision. But at least wait for the contract before you bash it.

Apparently your claim to genius is the amount of time one spends typing his opinion, and not time spent reading others. Why don't you try to concentrate on "what" someone says, and not on their user profiles. By the way, I looked up your profile, and you are a girls ass.

I undersatnd your upset with the Lima fiasco, but let's keep our shit real here, not point out links to a radical groups site that pushes their own agenda. No contract will ever be good in their eyes unless they write it, then they will say it's golden. While they make some good points sometimes, they make bad points way too often. Let's keep this shit real. real people and real opinions on these threads, not any political groups viewpoints.