My thoughts on a UAW VEBA.

[Furious1Auto]

Considering that I have no retiree health care coming. I am also concerned about the union running this thing. You guys know full well that the union is a company union and it's very likely they'll run it just like a company would. YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

But when the younger workers start getting up in age. Where will the health care funds be when the money runs out? What if the union doesn't want to disclose where these funds are going? These questions surely need to be asked! Otherwise you guys are looking for another vaseline greased pole stuck in your asses once again.

The problem is that the only revenue that the UAW generates comes from members dues, and if their investments underperform or cannot keep pace with health care cost inflation than they have no means to subsidize it unlike the company! NO ON VEBA!

Edited September 12, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Bored of Pisteon]

The problem is that the only revenue that the UAW generates comes from members dues, and if their investments underperform or cannot keep pace with health care cost inflation than they have no means to subsidize it unlike the company! NO ON VEBA!

 

It sure seems to me that the younger workers as usual will get screwed.

[Furious1Auto]

It sure seems to me that the younger workers as usual will get screwed.

You have to remember who is doing the screwing once they leave if the let it happen to us to save their own skin!~ The old timers f-ck us now and once their gone we'll return the favor! I suggest we all just work together to see that it's equitable!

[SORRYHOG]

How do you think the old timers are going to screw you? If it wasn't for the things that we gave up in the past, You wouldn't have anything , including a job!

[Furious1Auto]

How do you think the old timers are going to screw you? If it wasn't for the things that we gave up in the past, You wouldn't have anything , including a job!

Your right, but if you guys except a program that would protect your medical for retirement and will not give me the same benefit in retirement, then you are screwing me to save yourself! Once the VEBA fund is empty then I wont have medical when it's my turn! It's not a good deal!

[Hotlanta]

Your right, but if you guys except a program that would protect your medical for retirement and will not give me the same benefit in retirement, then you are screwing me to save yourself! Once the VEBA fund is empty then I wont have medical when it's my turn! It's not a good deal!

 

What makes you think that VEBA will protect our retirement now anymore than it would yours later? It only took a few months for the VEBA at Caterpillar to run out, why should FMC's be any different?

 

What we better remember is that we're in this TOGETHER - and stop allowing FMC to pit retirees against younger employees, that's exactly what they want.

[Furious1Auto]

What makes you think that VEBA will protect our retirement now anymore than it would yours later? It only took a few months for the VEBA at Caterpillar to run out, why should FMC's be any different?

 

What we better remember is that we're in this TOGETHER - and stop allowing FMC to pit retirees against younger employees, that's exactly what they want.

I agree 100%, their attempting to divide an conquer!

[SORRYHOG]

You missed the point.

Retiree's can't vote, and are on a fixed income.

In my opinion, if it wasn't for FORDS Piss Poor Management, they wouldn't be in the fix they are in now. They allways want the workers to shoulder the blame!

[Furious1Auto]

You missed the point.

Retiree's can't vote, and are on a fixed income.

In my opinion, if it wasn't for FORDS Piss Poor Management, they wouldn't be in the fix they are in now. They allways want the workers to shoulder the blame!

I won't vote yes on anything damaging to retiree's. I was directing my comment to the senior active employees!

[Automotive Paint]

While I wish all of you the best with your contract negotiations you are fuggin nuts if you put your healthcare in the unions control but it appears most of you realize that.

 

Good luck....

 

Would someone please explain how a retiree in general who recieves lets say $4000 per month between social security and his pension is on a fixed income but a guy who is working that makes $4000 per month every month is not? Fixed income to me sounds like a buzzword created by the media and the government to incite fear which ultimately leads to more and more taxpayer funded welfare programs for seniors.

[Imawhosure]

While I wish all of you the best with your contract negotiations you are fuggin nuts if you put your healthcare in the unions control but it appears most of you realize that.

 

Good luck....

 

Would someone please explain how a retiree in general who recieves lets say $4000 per month between social security and his pension is on a fixed income but a guy who is working that makes $4000 per month every month is not? Fixed income to me sounds like a buzzword created by the media and the government to incite fear which ultimately leads to more and more taxpayer funded welfare programs for seniors.

 

Because no matter how high anything goes, the old person still only gets 4000 grand a month. (although a Ford worker getting 4000 a month in the USA is not true)

 

In all honesty, the last thing a current Ford worker wants to do is take a COLA freeze. (reformulated maybe, but freeze, nope, nada) You see, Greenspan himself has said that he expects inflation to re-ignite. If that were to happen at the levels seen before, you would be losing 7 to 8% of your buying power per year.

 

We have seen how the fed threw out fuel costs along with food costs out of their calculations on inflation. Does anyone have the nerve to ask what the INFLATION rate would be if these 2 commodities were still included as they were just 10 years ago?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

I shudder to think, and until the union workers still employed figure out that these changes were purposely put in place to stop their pay from escalating,(all unions and protected employees with COLA allowances, not just autoworkers) they won't understand that you are fighting Ford to hard, and should be divying up the fight to Ford, Toyoty, Honda, the Feds, and even your own union who knows what this change in formulation has cost you............and even if with that change, Ford crys you are making to much for them to compete.

 

If for no other reason, this is a perfect example of WHY YOU NEED TO TOYOTY TO BE UAW. Hate them or not, if they are not union, the company will waltz in the day after your contract is signed and demand the same type of wage concessions. This means through all your sacrifices that are debated and guessed about on this forum, you will have ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING, and be right back where you started........making LESS or with less benefits.

 

I would ignite a fire under your unions ass, or go buy an extra large tube of KY if ya can't make them succeed. It is just that simple. Without parity in wages in the auto industry that can NOT be removed because one automaker is not union, you will create your own slippery slide to the bottom. (with their help of course) And Toyoty will do it to ya. If ya read what was written about their business plan years ago, this is exactly what they had in mind, and only their workforce becoming union can stop it or possibly a severe misstep. But how many of you actually believe they don't have the cash on hand to survive a bad misstep, not to mention will take more from their non-union, workforce???????

 

Good luck, I am rooting for ya!!!!! Remember, you either gotta defeat them hands down while costing more, (good luck on that one) or unionize them the instant they cut their ASSOCIATES WAGES to match your cut.

 

You decide!!!!! But choose one and do it quick, or its gonna be bye, bye Ford and possibly GM to boot, hello Toyoty in every American driveway.

 

 

Now that thought to me is just UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!

Edited September 17, 2007 by Imawhosure

[Ktp1989]

Would someone please explain how a retiree in general who recieves lets say $4000 per month between social security and his pension is on a fixed income but a guy who is working that makes $4000 per month every month is not? Fixed income to me sounds like a buzzword created by the media and the government to incite fear which ultimately leads to more and more taxpayer funded welfare programs for seniors.

My father-in-law retired in 2000 and receives $2600 per month after taxes. His social security kicks in this month so Ford reduces it's pension to 1200 as he gets 1400 a month from SSI. I don't think $2600 a month for LIFE cannot be termed as fixed income. It's not going up or down regardless of inflation.........that's a fixed income.

[Ktp1989]

Would someone please explain how a retiree in general who recieves lets say $4000 per month between social security and his pension is on a fixed income but a guy who is working that makes $4000 per month every month is not? Fixed income to me sounds like a buzzword created by the media and the government to incite fear which ultimately leads to more and more taxpayer funded welfare programs for seniors.

My father-in-law retired in 2000 and receives $2600 per month after taxes. His social security kicks in this month so Ford reduces it's pension to 1200 as he gets 1400 a month from SSI. I don't think $2600 a month for LIFE cannot be termed as fixed income. It's not going up or down regardless of inflation.........that's a fixed income.

[mrballsonya]

Because ..........

Now that thought to me is just UNACCEPTABLE!!!!!!!!

Well said Imawhosure.

 

I also think that the UAWs best shot at organizing Toyota, will be after the upcoming BIG3 contract concessions. If Toyota thinks that the Big3 have closed the wage gap too much, then you can bet your ass that they'll be turning the screws on their own workers as well. Toyota is an ultra competitive company, and soon the U.S. Toyota workers will start to realize that without being organized....Toyota will have no problem joining the Big3, in the great wage race to the bottom.

[Furious1Auto]

Would someone please explain how a retiree in general who recieves lets say $4000 per month between social security and his pension is on a fixed income but a guy who is working that makes $4000 per month every month is not? Fixed income to me sounds like a buzzword created by the media and the government to incite fear which ultimately leads to more and more taxpayer funded welfare programs for seniors.

 

My father-in-law retired in 2000 and receives $2600 per month after taxes. His social security kicks in this month so Ford reduces it's pension to 1200 as he gets 1400 a month from SSI. I don't think $2600 a month for LIFE cannot be termed as fixed income. It's not going up or down regardless of inflation.........that's a fixed income.

My fathers fixed income well exceeds many active workers variable income! (and No, he never worked at Ford) It's funny to hear him say it too. Rather than telling people no, he tells them that he's on a fixed income as if people are suppose to feel sympathy for him! It just makes me laugh! I'm just curious, if a fixed income means that it will never increase. Wouldn't an active employee who works at a job that doesn't give regular raises also be on a fixed income! :shades:

[mrballsonya]

My father-in-law retired in 2000 and receives $2600 per month after taxes. His social security kicks in this month so Ford reduces it's pension to 1200 as he gets 1400 a month from SSI. I don't think $2600 a month for LIFE cannot be termed as fixed income. It's not going up or down regardless of inflation.........that's a fixed income.

 

I guess we should all be grateful that some companies still do offer pensions. BUT.... of all the different companies and trade union pensions, the UAW Big 3 pensions have to be in the bottom 10%. $2600 a month is terrible, I've heard figures of $5000 and up for some of the Trade Unions.

 

If the Big 3 are still around in 25 years, and somehow the pensions are still funded by the companies.....what the hell are we going to do when half of the pension (SSI) is gone? Can we all look forward to subsiding on $1200 a month?

Edited September 18, 2007 by mrballsonya

[Furious1Auto]

I guess we should all be grateful that some companies still do offer pensions. BUT.... of all the different companies and trade union pensions, the UAW Big 3 pensions have to be in the bottom 10%. $2600 a month is terrible, I've heard figures of $5000 and up for some of the Trade Unions.

 

If the Big 3 are still around in 25 years, and somehow the pensions are still funded by the companies.....what the hell are we going to do when half of the pension (SSI) is gone? Can we all look forward to subsiding on $1200 a month?

I've said this before and I'll say it one more time and I'm dead serious. SSI is a benefit not a Tax, and you can have it's withdraw from your check stopped! I have paid in nearly 12 years and according to my statement from the social security administration I have eared enough credits for the full benefit amount! On the day that I am no longer entitled to the benefit that I have paid into, deductions "will" stop coming out of my check! Also my attorney will be demanding repayment of my contributions already paid plus interest! They had better reform the system by kicking off deadbeats that are capable of working, and illeagal immigrants! It 's the governments fault we have come to this point, and your going to see an entire generation of baby boomer's retiring at once and crippling SSI. I'm also sure that no one will buy their "people are living longer bullsh-t" to try to justify another age requirement raise, to hide the fact that the have simply squandered our retirement an it's now under funded!

Edited September 18, 2007 by Furious1Auto

[Imawhosure]

I've said this before and I'll say it one more time and I'm dead serious. SSI is a benefit not a Tax, and you can have it's withdraw from your check stopped! I have paid in nearly 12 years and according to my statement from the social security administration I have eared enough credits for the full benefit amount! On the day that I am no longer entitled to the benefit that I have paid into, deductions "will" stop coming out of my check! Also my attorney will be demanding repayment of my contributions already paid plus interest! They had better reform the system by kicking off deadbeats that are capable of working, and illeagal immigrants! It 's the governments fault we have come to this point, and your going to see an entire generation of baby boomer's retiring at once and crippling SSI. I'm also sure that no one will buy their "people are living longer bullsh-t" to try to justify another age requirement raise, to hide the fact that the have simply squandered our retirement an it's now under funded!

 

 

Furious hits a homerun by stating the obvious............in a way that both political partys members can understand.

 

He is correct that they squandered it by putting it in the general fund to lessen the deficit. Now they come back and tell everyone it is underfunded, but neglect to inform people it is because they SPENT IT!!!

 

They know how to pull the political strings of people DON'T THEY!!!!!!

 

 

AND FOR PEOPLE WHO WERE DECISEVELY ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER WHEN IT CAME UP YOU COULD INVEST A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF YOUR SSI IN THE STOCKMARKET, PLEASE READ THIS--------------------------------------------->Do you know why so many politicians were REALLY against you being able to invest a pitifull 1 to 5% amount of your OWN money in the market, lolololol????????

 

You heard the reason...........ummm no, excuses..........and now I will tell you the REAL REASON!!!!!

 

ANSWER: Because Fidelity Investments, T. Rowe Price, and every damn investment firm on this planet will NOT take government IOUs as legal tender to put in any market, lolol. If the government allowed this plan, guess what!!!!!!!!!! Their would be less money for the general fund.....the money they bleed off SSI!!!!!

 

You see, Fidelity and the others woulda demanded that actual dollars; YOUR GODDAMN dollars, be sent to them to be put into play in your account........just as it is from every employer who has a 401k in this country.

 

They couldn't have that!!!!!! Why that woulda FORCED them to cut spending before you lynched them because the deficit would be there for everyone to see. And so, those of you who thought it was a stellar idea to DENY such a program have again........listened to a government who only makes ridiculous excuses so as they can use YOUR money.......then pretend after they spend it for other things you haven't payed enough in to get yours from a program that was SUPPOSEDLY SET UP TO PROTECT YOU.

 

One question-------->HOW DUMB ARE YOU ANYWAY????????????? If the sockmarket collapses, everything is out the window anyway since the Fed is gonna print so much cash, your money will be worthless. WAKE UP!!!!!! They were afraid it force them to cut SPENDING.

 

PAHLEEZE, quit listening to political pundits of either party, and read MONEY MAGAZINE or something.

[mrballsonya]

If the sockmarket collapses, everything is out the window

 

One things for certain. They day after the SOCKMARKET collapses, there will be a lot of cold feet in the investment community... literally and figuratively.

 

Sorry Imawhosure, I just couldn't resist such a great typo. :D

 

But enough about the hilarious typo. That's an interesting take on the failure of SSI privatization. I don't pretend to know much about this subject, but that sounds like a very reasonable explanation.

[hendew_15]

I've said this before and I'll say it one more time and I'm dead serious. SSI is a benefit not a Tax, and you can have it's withdraw from your check stopped! I have paid in nearly 12 years and according to my statement from the social security administration I have eared enough credits for the full benefit amount! On the day that I am no longer entitled to the benefit that I have paid into, deductions "will" stop coming out of my check! Also my attorney will be demanding repayment of my contributions already paid plus interest! They had better reform the system by kicking off deadbeats that are capable of working, and illeagal immigrants! It 's the governments fault we have come to this point, and your going to see an entire generation of baby boomer's retiring at once and crippling SSI. I'm also sure that no one will buy their "people are living longer bullsh-t" to try to justify another age requirement raise, to hide the fact that the have simply squandered our retirement an it's now under funded!

How exactly do you get out of this government scam?I want out now!

[ktpworker69]

I really have no faith in the ability of the UAW to manage such a huge liability/Fund. I think ahead... about 5 years and have terrible images in my head, of unqualified, middle school educated, UAW Reps being led out of the UAW international in handcuffs. This will be like giving out blank checks to crackheads. Unless this money is very closely watched and scrutinized, it will be skimmed, pilfered and "invested poorly". In 4 years, we'll all see a bulletin stating that " Due to the increasing high cost of health care, and underperfoming investments, the VEBA will have to be supplemented to the tune of $2000 per employee".

 

We've all seen the UAW membership dwindle to less than 40% of what it once was, and yet our beloved international has remained as bloated as it ever was. This really sounds like an efficient, well run organization. Definitely an organization that I'd like to infuse a Multi billion dollar investment in. The corruption, kickbacks, payoffs and favoritism that this massive amount of money will create are truly scary. If you guys think that all the shady shit that happens at a local level, amazingly stops as soon as the same individuals go "down town".....I've got a nice bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, N.Y. .

 

I also have serious questions about the, "what if" scenario of the enactment of a U.S. national health care system. I doubt this will ever happen, but if it does... what happens to this money? I highly doubt the UAW would refund the money to its members, or even increase the retirement benefits. This would be a pure windfall for the UAW. I foresee a MASSIVE expansion of International, doubling the size.....all in the name of "Increasing new membership campaigns" i.e.....an excuse to pay every brother, cousin, nephew, and friend $80,000 a year to do nothing.

 

As you can tell, I'm a very skeptical person. I absolutely believe in the fundamental beliefs of a union, without collective bargaining I don't think we'd have a middle class in the U.S. Unfortunately I think the modern UAW has become a nepotistic, self serving, uncompetitive joke. The UAW no longer serves its average member, it serves itself and the lazy P.O.S worker. Make sure you get the drunk, crackhead his job back, so you can saddle his hardworking coworkers with twice the work.

 

If you mess up once.... thats O.K., if you mess up again...well, this is your last chance.....the third time, you're GONE. Lets cut the fat, and prove that good, hardworking UAW members cannot be equaled in their work ethic, and efficiency. Lets remain competitive, and keep our good paying jobs here in the U.S. .

 

It'll be very hard to compete with $2 per hour Chinese workers, when we've got $30 an hour UAW workers stating......"that's not my job, all I can do is sit here and read my paper". IMO the modern UAW needs a serious protocol overhaul, and a massive leadership cleansing.

 

i dont think the union can handle retiree health care, hell, they cant do what they are supposed to, much less anything else

[Furious1Auto]

How exactly do you get out of this government scam?I want out now!

Stop Paying Social Security and Get a Refund

 

 

 

If you are like many people it is becoming more and more obvious that Social Security may not even be in existence by the time you reach retirement age. Already several times the system has had to be artificially propped up to stay solvent.

 

With baby boomers reaching retirement age in the next few years the system can't keep paying out more than what's being paid in to it. If you are in your 20's, 30's, 40's or 50's the chances of you collecting your retirement are probably pretty slim. The younger you are the greater the possibility you'll never see one red cent of those thousands of hard earned dollars paid in.

 

There IS something you can do about it. Learn how thousands of people have stopped paying Social Security and received a full refund of all money paid into the system. You'll want to hurry though because with this kind of information now available it won't be long before Social Security will be gone forever and your retirement money with it! Even the playing field and get a full refund before it's too late. 200-page book comes complete with forms and instructions. LINK Take your refund and roll it into an IRA then continue funding it by deducting the appropriate amount from your check weekly and depositing it into you IRA. I guarentee you will get a better return security from losing your retirement!

Edited September 21, 2007 by Furious1Auto