Imawhosure

Personally, I think the off topic forums were great, although infighting became redundant as Akirby stated. When you are in a union plant constantly being hit over the head with nonsense that ends up being detrimental to your economic health, you should have a different point of view put forth for you to consider. We have seen throughout time what people without alternatives have done, and let us all face it, inside the walls of a union shop, you are constantly bombarded with ideas that most would consider counter productive. Ideas are to be shared. Nobody has a lock on the best ideas, for if they did we would all be better off consistently then we were before. Would anyone today not take the boom we enjoyed under Reagan or Clinton, as opposed to what we have today? This alone should tell you that a moniker means absolutely nothing. Oh sure, the democrats try to paint the Reagan expansion as smoke and mirrors, just as the republicans paint the Clinton economy as a joke. Does anyone notice that you are trying to be persuaded (if you were alive at the time) that what you lived through really didn't happen; and if you refuse to go along with this craziness, you are then told that yes, it looked good, but then look what happened down the road. Sometimes, great people come from either party. Sometimes, we have disasters from both too. All we can do if we are smart, is look back in time and understand that sometimes we need to do one thing, some times the other. In my humble opinion, we can do whatever the majority of Americans want to do, as long as we PAY for it and quit charging our kids and grandkids for what we want. This is the perfect example of taxation without representation. We are leaving them a bill today that will have them live in a country that does not even resemble the country we live in. They have no say, as the brilliant people in Washington plot their life long course. It makes no difference which side of the aisle you reside on; it really doesn't. If you want stuff today, figure out a way to pay for it. If you can't, then you are a very weak American. We can demand everything and anything we want. Now whom among you is willing to say how we are going to pay for it? If you can't pay for it, and if it is not in defense of the country, then you are selfish because you are charging people yet unborn to pay for your ideas. This is exactly why this "off topic" forum is important. People have to ask how selfish you really are. Look at your children. Is that who you want to saddle with the bills for your ideas?

Goin is correct. The reason the tax code is so large, is because the tax code is used by government to reward certain corporations, types of people, etc. Why do you think the richest county in the country has Washington DC sitting in the middle of it! Make no mistake about it.........corporations WANT a certain amount of regulation. Why? Because they can absorb it due to their volume. This means that you, or me, or us, can't start a company to compete with them, because our volume is small enough that the regulation will affect our price much more than theirs. In the end, it destroys competition unless someone (s) are willing to get a group together and invest billions to compete. Want to hear something really stupid that will piss you off to no end? Listen to this...........we hear about Tesla and other electric auto companies and how wonderful they are. But here is the truth of the matter..........the government is GIVING them money, which you think may not be so bad; but, every car they sell, we subsidize it with a rebate. Not so bad either? Well then what about the fact that virtually all Tesla purchasers income are way over 6 figures!!!! In other words, you are subsidizing the very wealthy to purchase a vehicle that they could easily afford themselves. But wait, there is more! As of this time, they use the same roads you do, but don't pay a nickel for upkeep because they buy no fuel! Meanwhile, they tell you how environmentally conscious they are, so pat them on the back; as they drive their electric car to the airport that YOU subsidized, then get in a private jet and fly to Europe accidentally on purpose forgetting everything they just preached to you about their environmental stewardship, lol. You guys going to accept this? I mean honestly, politicians have been tar and featherd, then run out of town on a rail for far less than this. Come on all, most everyone on here either works for, or is retired from an auto company; and yet some here support the people who support this obvious slap in your face. Are we wanting to destroy ourselves that badly? We are going to worry about an oil company that feeds our products, and us; but we are NOT going to worry about a company that competes with us that we are subsidizing for the rich? Have we been brainwashed that badly!

I am sorry for your predicament Len, I really am. I don't really know what conservatism had to do with your plight, but if you believe it did, then I understand your disdain. I also am no spring chicken, and I know that my best earning days are far, far, behind me. I also know, that if I and many others do not stand up for conservatism, our children and grandchildren have no chance as this country goes broke. Now, I do not know who you voted for this time, nor last time, nor the time before that. I also do not know which individuals voted for the people who got us into this disaster, but it was/is both republicans and democrats. While conservatives belong to the republican party, 1/2 of the republicans are not much better than democrats. The only reason conservatives run as republicans, is because there are no conservatives in the democratic party. I remember an article Len less than 20yrs ago (and I bet you can still find it online) that foretold of baby boomers being in extremely high demand from 2010 on. There logic was solid, and it went something like this......and I am paraphrasing-----------> our companies would push to keep us, the world would be our oyster in business, because the birth rate was so low, they would have no choice but to offer us MORE money to stay put. And if we chose to leave? Our work ethic would land us in a job of our choice within reason, and the business community would have no choice but to embrace us if they wanted an intelligent work force, with superior work ethic. So Len, ask yourself what happened to this scenario before you despise conservatives so much. How did the golden goose lay such a big egg? And let me state here that this prophecy I have mentioned was gospel throughout the business community! 2 things my friend.............. 1. A liberal economy that has not created jobs worth squat, and 2. mass illegal immigration that puts absolutely no pressure on the job market because of lack of labor. Ask yourself this---------> are illegals counted as non participants in the job market if they are not working? (I believe the answer is yes) And so, how much would the labor force shrink were they not here? I am not trying to insult your intelligence by claiming that IF they were not here, your wife would have a job in her field yesterday. What I am suggesting is---------->that you both would be much more in demand, and no matter what the government claims today what the minimum wage is, you and her would be far surpassing it because of a much tighter labor market, no matter what occupation you personally chose to work in. Doubt what I say is true? Do the math yourself! We are told we have between 11 and 14 million illegals in this country. Let us surmise that only 5 million of them are either working, or need work. Remove those 5 million, and how does the job market look now, and who is going to have to pay what to get our services. Now then, I am not suggesting that you or I agree to remove 5 million people from this country that do not belong here. But, if you agree with my premise and find it reasonably accurate, then you have to admit, the people who WANT to allow our border to remain porous continuing to compound your/my/our problems are NOT conservatives, and by the same token, the ones demanding the border be guarded to stop the problem from becoming worse, ARE conservatives. We are called racists, and a host of other names because of it, but I just explained why it must happen. Hopefully, even if you stay a democrat, you will see at least that part our way. Let me also state, that I as a conservative, want everyone to work if they are not retired fully, want them to make a decent to very good living, and in the process pay into the system. The only way to make this happen for a lot of people, is to have MORE jobs, and a smaller LEGAL workforce that will push compensation up! I honestly hope you understand the premise, and I wish both you and your wife success. Hang in there! P.S. One more thing to solidify to you what I am saying is 100% accurate. Look up how many jobs the Obama administration claims it created since he took office. (no, I am not going to tell you he is misleading you, I have another tact that will really irritate you) Now look at the stats from our federal government on how many illegals have crossed the border in the same amount of time. Do you notice something Len? Now after looking at those numbers, you should have absolutely zero doubt why it is so hard to find a job, and compensation is stagnant! And oh yeah, Bernie wants more of it, some republicans want more of it, and every democrat in congress wants more of it. Isn't it amazing that the American public doesn't, almost to the tune of 2 to 1, and they won't listen to a darn thing we say. Go figure.

Because one side buys votes with it, and if the other side talks about even a miniscule change, they lose votes. We didn't realize how unbelievable welfare reform was under Clinton and the republican congress. It was a once in a lifetime deal. Obama has basically thrown it out, and now we are back to who has what, and why don't I have it because I deserve it. There was an article sometime last year or the year before, that single mother with 3 children in New York averages between 50 and 60,000 in benefits. Now you tell me in the Obama economy, with little manufacturing, where an unskilled worker is going to go and make that kind of money! Anyone on here give a realistic incentive for this person to go to work with the likelihood of them making a profit by doing so. What we have done is create a permanent class of people that have absolutely no chance of escape. We have disincentivized work, and promoted doing nothing. And with the economy the way it is, even those who are willing to try have no, or very little chance of success. We can't do business like this and succeed, and yet we do. That should tell all of us there is something really wrong here, and quit listening to those who say you are evil and anti poor because you point out what is obvious to everyone, they just won't say it out of fear of not being PC.

Len, your observations are correct, with this I agree, but the motivation between the countries differ. In America, it is be all you can be, while in Europe, if you are not from old money, you become one of the worker bees. Just ask your relatives (and I have friends and relatives also in Europe) how big their living space is. If your friends and relatives are like mine, we live in spaces 3 to 4 times their amount for the same amount of people as far as structures. We drive 4 to 5 times the distance for our employment, which means we demand better and nicer vehicles because we spend more time in them. In fact, many in Europe use mass transit. And so you ask, what does this have to do with thread. A lot actually. You see, because of the way Europeans live, it is much more difficult to discern who is poor, and who is middle class. It is like the old tales of the family who lived next door in a 3 bedroom one floor ranch, who was worth 5 million dollars, and nobody knew. In our country; for good or bad; people use their money for more space, better vehicles, nicer clothes, to live in a better area. The poor instantly see this as the middle class escapes the poverty ridden areas. In Europe, in 2 blocks you go from middle class, to poverty, back to middle class, then maybe to mildly rich. They are all on top of one another like sardines, because Europe is so dense. The point is, there is no disconnect. There is little difference besides what they eat and wear. There is no escape from each other like there is here because of the space that is open. Therefore, there is much less class envy. The grass is always greener on the other side, especially when you can't get there. You talk about safety nets. I ask you personally, (and I have asked this before, and my post was removed so I am tempting fate, lol) how much money would the government have to offer you NOT to work? Let us make pretend! Let us say the minimum wage is raised to 15 bucks an hr. For a 40 hr week, that equates to 600 bucks for 40 hrs. After federal taxes, SS, state, local, and medicare, lets say you take home 500. This means in a 4 week month, you take home 2000 dollars. Now, let us say you are getting government dough! You get 1000 for rent, 350 in food stamps, 150 help in utilities, another 100 here or there, and you are at 1600 dollars. Now let us ALL contemplate this............I get 1600 dollars for doing absolutely NOTHING, or I can work 160 hours a month for 400 dollars more; OR I can go cut grass, wash cars, shovel snow, sew, babysit, or many other things under the table for a couple hours a day, and make just as much or more than that job pays me! And what if I am ill for a day? Damn, I lose off of that 160 hr paycheck, but not the government largesse. And the kicker? All the money I make is mine, Uncle Sam doesn't get a nickel. WHAT A DEAL! Len, if I had a family, and I was working for 15 bucks an hr, I would be hard pressed not to take the government cash too, and I am a conservative. If that is what I think, what do you think all the libs are thinking, lol. Is it any wonder they promote class envy?!?!? So, in the final analysis, let us count this up. If someone receives approximately 1600 bucks in help per month and instead decides to get a job where they actually pay 0 taxes, we save as a country, 1600 bucks, and that is with them paying absolutely NOTHING, no skin in the game. Safety net you say? I say it is NOT a safety net, I say rather it is one of two things.......it is either a hammock for the lazy, or it is a sharp razor that cuts deeply for us the producers. I also say that if we demand more jobs putting the poor people to work......the riots in Baltimore never happen because they were to busy working, nobody would vote for a tax increase on themselves, children would go to better schools in the poor communities, and liberals would be out of a job permanently!

If the government is involved, it is screwed up, everyone knows this. Why would anyone think that the government can fix our problems? Our problem is; to much government involvement, not lack of government involvement. I will vote for the republican if it is one of the real conservatives, or Rand Paul who is a libertarian. I have never done it before, but if none of these people win the nomination, I will vote 3rd party. It no longer makes much difference if a rino or liberal gets elected, we are going downhill with the rino, and sinking even faster with the lib. Can everyone here imagine if the nominees are.........Hillary Clinton, and Jebster Bush! The one thing I can say about Bernie is, he says what he thinks, tells you what he will do, and doesn't back down. I disagree with 85% of his ideas since I seen the USSR's economy in action, but at least he doesn't fabricate lies to get elected, then screw the people who voted for him later. (If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!) or (this is not a tax!) or (I think common core is great, oh wait, the people don't like it so now I don't! )((Jebster)) I really think no matter what side of the political spectrum we each sit on, we need to fight and support better candidates; and when I say support, I mean reach into your wallet too! If we don't, we are going to lose this country, and if that happens, the money you didn't send that candidate will no longer exist anyway.

I found this article fascinating. It is like the guy who is given a million dollars, and doesn't care who is paying for it. Nobody has ever said Obamacare's theory was a bad one, just the reality of who/whom had to actually pay for it was. People who receive transfer of wealth are usually always for it; and why not, it is the normal human condition. Want proof? How many people that receive government benefits which are actually transfer of wealth have you seen picketing outside government offices demanding they be taken away? In fact, if the picketers outside a government office are doing the picketing for economic reasons, they are usually demanding more free stuff. And the free stuff they want is really not free, it is just free to them, and somebody else is paying for it. Might be me, you, or more than likely our kids and grandkids. Just think how bad it really is. The government has almost given up on making us pay for their free stuff, because to tax us more would really throw the economy in the tank meaning less tax receipts for the treasury. The governments solution? Generational tax shift, so that our fearless leaders can get elected today, and after they are out of office, our kids and grandkids can pay back the money that got them elected for offering free stuff. To me, that means there is something really amiss here. Allowing anyone to claim how much they like their good, free, stuff our kids are paying for without saying a word means, we have failed! If this country fails, or our kids tax rates are 80%, they will curse us for allowing this to happen. If you believe in the after life, this means you are certainly going to hear it, and hear it for far longer than the human life you have lived here, on planet earth.

All this is because------------>the people taking the readings, are the ones most invested in being correct. We have seen this over, and over, again. With eugenics where the guy who founded Stanford was all for it, Carnegie helped fund it; Y2K, global cooling, and on, and on. And every time the public finally said we no longer believe you, magically another crisis popped up. Same people, different story. The only difference this time is-----------> the media isn't investigating; in the US anyway. Regardless if a report goes the way you think, or opposite of what you believe, if you have any sense, you should be skeptical. Forget what they tell you, and see what you see. How is this global warming affecting you personally, besides taking money out of your pocket? Do you see something happening that they predicted like cities going under? Do you feel it in the air? Do you think the change you perceive needs immediate attention, if you perceive change at all? Have they convinced you that the change YOU perceive, if you perceive one; is all because you live a modern live instead of living in caves? If you aren't convinced, do you think from all the former crisis that were thrown at you that never came to fruition, that it is MORE or LESS likely that this is about a political agenda to get you to live the way some people want you to so others can have more or catch up? It is not what IS truth, but rather what most people believe the truth IS. The more they believe it, the more invested they are in making their version of the truth reality; up to, and including, altering facts in evidence, so that their truth becomes common place acceptance. Finally I ask-------------> we see that throughout time by core samplings (lets not get technical) our planet has changed in temperature over and over, again. We now know that they have been fudging the numbers consistently, but lets give them a pass. ME: Are you sure the temperature is going up? LIB: Oh yes, and it is all your fault for living modern while spewing CO2 into the air and making a huge carbon foot print. ME: So then, why has the temperature risen and fallen so many times in history, when we weren't living modern? LIB: Because 1000s of scientists say so, and I go along with them. ME: But it has been proven over and over, that the input data has been fudged by those taking it. If it is so obvious how bad it is, why did they have to fudge the numbers? LIB: They didn't fudge the numbers, it was an honest mistake that a right wing tea party group has blown into a conspiracy. ME: But when you put the numbers back where they should have been, it shows little or no correlation to what you claim is happening. We were told by enviro people across the globe that some cities would already be under water, and we all should buy a boat as the polar ice caps melting would put 1/3 of California underwater by now. How do you explain that? LIB: You are a flat earther, aren't you? ME: No sir, I really want to learn, honest. Since you can no longer point to statistics since we know they are bogus, give me your next best argument for why we should spend billions on fixing this. LIB: Ha, that is easy. I will give you two of them. 1. Because what if we are right! We need to protect ourselves and our children. 2. Because President Obama says it is so, and former Vice President Al Gore says so too. ME: But if we do what you say needs to be done without proof, we will ruin our economy; and President Obama and Al Gore are just blowhard politicians. One is a community organizer with no expertise in anything relating to climate, and the other was broke until he came up with this whole idea. LIB: You really are a flat earther aren't you. ME: Hey, I am not convinced, but I did buy a boat when you had me convinced for about 30 seconds. You want to buy it for your family just in case, and we will call it fair, and square. LIB: Sure I will buy it, but can you wait till next quarter until I get my government grant on "The study of polar bears, and the effect man made global warming has upon their extinction." By the way, your taxes are going up, carbon credits you know. Hope your boat is a speed boat, I don't like to row.

1. Patton--------------> He seen what was coming and nobody listened. He was also the best mechanized general the USA had. 2. Rommel-----------> Best general in the war hands down, was not a true Nazi, and was removed because of it. Give me reincarnations of these 2 generals, give them 150 tanks per with a free hand, and watch ISIS disappear within a month! Bottomline---------->we may yet today have generals just as capable as these in our armed forces. Sadly, we no longer have the politicians across the globe who are willing to use the talents they possess. We no longer fight wars in Washington along with many other capitals across the globe, we manage them for public consumption.

I am not a Detroit Lions fan, but they got hosed. It is very disconcerting that a whole season comes down possibly to one play, and the refs goof it up. If they hadn't called the penalty and missed it, you could swallow it easier. But to throw the flag, then get it wrong in the translation? That is totally unacceptable for even Lion haters. You expect more from the NFL. This is not the NBA you know, where everything is subjective.

It is a sad state of affairs when they divide us, isn't it.

Isn't it just amazing! It is exactly why much of Washingtons power should be returned to where it rightfully belongs, and that is with the states.

Sorry, disagree with you there Akirby. You see, he should never have gotten that far, or have been in that position. Obama is 100% a media creation. The democrat would have won for exactly the reason you stated; with that I will agree. But Mr Obama did not acquire that opportunity because of republicans, but rather the media throwing the rest of the democratic field under the bus as it were, to promote him. As reasonably thinking human beings, I ask the pertinent question-----------> name one thing in this mans resume, that should have propelled him any where near Hillary Clinton for the nomination?!?!?! While I have no love for Hillary, this man was absolutely an empty suit who didn't even vote regularly in congress. And yet, the American people never heard this come from MSM outlets. The MSM got this man elected in 08/14, not by what they said; but rather what they did not say! Whenever right and left debate about the 2008 election, (and 14 for that matter) the right always brings up the wrong debate to show media bias. The debate is not how Obama beat Mcain, since every person on the left, and have of those on the right, will say almost verbatim what Akirby has said, and rightfully so. No, the real question is----------> how Obama got out of the democratic primaries as the victor. That is the example you use to show bias, and absolute crooked political moves, by many involved including the MSM!

Besides Fox, nobody else in the MSM is even touching it. Americans of every race, creed, and religious background called stupid by the Obamacare author, and oh well, yawn. After reading Mz Atkisons book, I wondered for a while if it was media fear that causes this ignorance and glossing over; or rather, is it that they support him so ignore it. While I was disgusted with my own conclusion, I decided it had to be the latter for the most part. They never vetted him, and basically created the Obama legend far before Obama had any power to do anything to them for not ignoring certain aspects of his life as compared to past Presidential candidates. If Obama is now throttling the media, (which is highly possible after reading Mz Atkisons book) they created the Frankenstein monster, and isn't it funny that they are the 1st ones to be destroyed.

I was wondering how long it would take before someone posted this video after hearing the audio yesterday. I am also wondering how long it will take for people to start posting exerts from Atkisons book which appears to be highly accurate, with absolute documentation to back up the facts she puts forth. Many have in jest, put forth the notion that these people in this administration are akin to the people who ran the former Soviet Union. With the examples put forth by this video and Mz Atkisons book, (and oh by the way, are we all aware that the university that employees this pointy headed professor, took down the video that is posted here to HIDE what is actually going on I suppose. Everyone had it already, so I guess they were a little slow) the jest might not have been as far off as we thought. We can no longer point the finger at Nixon with a straight face, without pointing a finger at these people. But times have surely changed! When Nixon was proven to be doing the things he was accused of doing; the American media reported it, and his own party leaders went to see him and told him to resign. In todays America; you might be able to make a case of understanding why Obamas own party will not stand against his constitutional shortcomings; but any defense of the media ignoring it is absolutely shameful.

While the senate was important for sure, the most important thing that came out of this election, was that now 30 states are controlled in both houses by republicans. That is extremely significant for every political junkie on this board. Why? Because if in 2016 they win control of 2 more states, the republicans can lose the Presidency, lose the house, lose the senate, and the liberals can put any judge they want in, and the states can over ride it all!!!!! With the control of 32 states, the power shifts out of Washington and back to whomever controls those 32. I know most of you guys/gals don't follow it, but it is exactly why the democrats have suddenly been fighting tooth and nail for seats in states, when with them having control of all the big states.....or highly populated states; they are almost a shoe in for President. The path was pointed out to take all that power away, and they don't like it. 32 states, just 2 more, and the libs can pound sand. Why? Because once you institute what you want, for them to over turn it, they have to have 32 states in their control, lolol. That is not going to happen in our lifetime, our childrens lifetime, nor probably our grandchildrens lifetime. And for those of you who insist that somehow that doesn't seem fair, or right; let me point out to you that----------> a congress that is no longer in power, gave us welfare, gave us the great society programs, and just recently gave us Obamacare! The people rose up and threw them out, but the plan is still there, isn't it! And so, if 32 states screw up the liberal Shang-Ri-La by taking power from Washington, changing what socialists wanted, and the libs have to get control of 32 states to re-create Shang-ri-La. Oh well, better get to work, and the next century is only a little over 80 years away, so nobody hold their breath please.

Were it not for how absolutely terrible the democrats are, I couldn't vote for most of the republicans. Both parties leaders seem to want control of the levers of the status quo, and yet, the status quo is not what most Americans want. Is it any wonder both political parties fight tooth and nail in primaries, where younger people with new ideas try and bring their visions to the fore front. Once you actually discover that most of congress once elected becomes relatively wealthy, while not having to live under the rules they impose for us; it should not be any question of why they want to hold power. The crooked part goes across party lines I might add. I am still in favor of an article 5 convention where the states reassert their rights under the constitution. It is much easier for we the people, to control politicians the closer they are to us, than politicians who live in Washington DC.

You know RN, that informing union members without bias, is a good thing. America is about freedom, and the more choices you have, the more free you are. Informing people of what is really going on, is a good thing; is it not? Especially when it is the context of their jobs, yes! I look at it this way-------------> I am not gonna lie or deceive to make things look rosey, or worse than they are. If telling the truth causes problems anywhere where people discuss things, then we have far more problems then what is being discussed here. Now then RN, I am not anti-union; heck, I belonged to one for 30yrs. But what I am is, pro INFORMED union. I am also pro Ford products, pro American blue collar worker, and pro American dream. If that is a terrible position because I am not a liberal democrat and have different views on what is actually happening here, then I apologize. Trying to give people different options or points of view from a union standpoint is terrible, especially when the person leading the liberals has all the power, and continues to screw everything up. If being on the wrong side of the political tracks gets people kicked that point that out while using respect doing it, then kicked I will be. P.S. My daughter now works for Chrysler selling cars. How their vehicles seem to get a high rating is beyond me, but then again, sometime logic has no place in what is actually going on, lol! I have driven some of them, and trust me, I am not impressed! But, I do not know how long that Hemi engine will stay together when pushed in the trucks and Chargers, but man oh man, power and engine noise. You gotta love an automaker willing to take a chance.

Because of capitalism, the enviros have cooked their own goose. It is absolutely a travesty when someone shoots you in the foot. But when you manage to shoot yourself in the foot, that is called an adjective that should not be spoken in mixed company! Have you seen that it has been released that there were WMDs in Iraq? It is just we weren't told, but even though our fearless dems knew they were there, they continued to absolutely deceive with a straight face for political gain. How many of you remember many of these people on here proclaiming that.........."Bush lied, and our people died!" How absolutely sick did you feel as people hosed you? Now we find out, Bush was correct. Should we demand an apology? Nah. We are better off pointing at the reactionarys, and say........."is that really who you want in charge?" That should create a 75% landslide for the republican in 2016!

Yes Goin and Cal, isn't it amazing. But here is something even MORE amazing------------> The House of Saud is fighting any idea of production cuts inside of OPEC. Some inside of OPEC have insisted the thing to do is use the hammer of cuts to raise prices back up, but the House of Saud says no, no way. They have told their fellow OPEC ministers that they are willing to settle for the price of a barrel of oil to equalize somewhere in the high 70s, to low 80s. That would drop the price of gasoline below 3 bucks a gallon by the way, so expect our monarch to try and add a tax. And so, did the house of Saud get with us? Unfortunately no! They want the price point down to squeeze profits from shale oil and fracking. They don't want competition, so they are willing to lower the price to keep everything else off the market, instead of cutting production to keep prices up enough to keep investments going into their competition. This kinda puts our environmental friends in a catch 22, lol. (finally) We have a glut, and no matter who they try to pressure, we will still have a glut, hehehehehe. And should a republican get elected in 2016. We are going to have so much energy, we will be breaking back out the 1960s version of the Lincoln Continentals. Updated of course. So the 1st Presidential Candidate who runs on getting rid of the EPA, along with these other useless agencies; that is the guy for me!!!!!!!!!! I am sure Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are going to run on it, and the libs will be running too, for the hills that is-) I love it when a plan comes together, even if it was accidental.

Sometimes Fired, we tend to discuss the wrong things while having the correct ideas, in the wrong places. CONSIDER---------> The OBYSMAL policy on fossil fuels! How do autoworkers support such nonsense, to raise the price of what is needed to fuel the products they build; in other words, supporting nonsense that could very well put them out of a job, their job, their UNION job!?!?!?! Also consider; how do union employees complain about the rich, when 8 of the top 10 richest people in congress, (reported by MSN which is affiliate of the left wings MSNBC) are DEMOCRATS; and far, far, faaaaaaaar left ones at that. Our friends from the left on here, seem to be willing to be able to put forth an excellent UNION argument against Scott Walker of Wisconsin, for basically throwing out public sector unions. How DARE he! How double DARE he! And yet, they listen sooooooo much to socialistic talking points, they forget to not only oppose, but actually support Mr Obamas policies that will have faaaaar more impact on eliminating auto workers jobs, than Scott Walker had in eliminating government jobs. Here is the real deal..............you know those teachers jobs in Wisconsin? How many were eliminated, lol. You won't believe me if I tell you because the left doesn't want to hear the truth; and if it does, it doesn't want to ADMIT it. And here is something else it doesn't want to admit, since the changes in Wisconsin took effect, how many teachers do YOU think opted out of the union of their own free will? You won't believe me when I post that fact either, but it is over 25%, and that is just a tease for you to find out the true percentage. So let us all clearly understand the gist of this post-------------> UAW members SUPPORTED with money, the public sector unions of Wisconsin, against Scott Walker, to the eventual conclusion that over 25% of the union teachers couldn't wait to run like crazy from the union. On the other hand.......the UAW SUPPORTS Mr Obamas energy policies, his epa, and everything else related to the environment including mass transit, that will have a huge, negative, impact upon their job. Yep, sounds like some people are being pulled around by their nose to me, but somehow after being in the auto industry as a union worker, that doesn't surprise me at all. That Fired, is talking about the auto industry, on an auto industry site that has relevance. Personally, I too would like to ask the autoworkers over and over about.........if you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor; or maybe the Obamacare penalty is not a tax, until the supreme court says it is.......which it did, lol. But our tact should be instead how these people are going to cost auto worker jobs, many of them belonging to them. As far as I am concerned, logic doesn't kick in for people, until their beliefs have a deleterious affect on their own home. All of the sudden, just like the old Ford commercials, the light bulb comes on. And if they want to proclaim their beliefs are soooooooo strong that they don't care if they lose their jobs or the company folds; then the easy argument can be made that they need to quit now, for they are a cancer in a workforce that wishes to survive. Being a retired autoworker, I have posted before, and I will post again the obvious...........being a free American means you have options. The more options you have, the more free you are. If the government restricts your choices, they are more than likely only allowing you choices, that are acceptable to them. That is not freedom! Realize that your choices are being put for by Mr Obama, Mr Biden, former speaker Pelosi, or maybe current speaker Baihnoir. Now think about it, with a vote of hands, how many of you actually believe these people are so much smarter than you are, they should be deciding for you, what you should do, lololol! Don't ignore it, THEY ARE, by the choices they allow you to have in your life. It is called the OVER REACH of GOVERNMENT! Unions are the same way as of this writing. You are either a liberal democrat, or you are a pariah. It doesn't make any difference that Mr Obamas economy has nothing in common with Mr Reagan or Mr Clintons, it is just he has a D on his chest, so he would proclaim (as will Hillary) vote for me, I will set you free. Are coal miners union people? What about oil workers on rigs? How about the people who made our tires, before they made regulations sooo tough, all the jobs had to be moved away? Those people had their government turn their jobs to nothing, all had to do with energy; or use of it. Are you SURE you are happy sitting there with the people promoting MASS TRANSIT, live in cities, and one size fits all? Hey, do you young people know what a union steel worker once was? Yep divide, and defeat. History teaches all things, and maybe you should look back to see where some of our brothers and sisters were, how they got kicked out of the box and by whom, (yeah, yeah, air traffic controllers, they were white collar anyway, so get off of it and look at people like you) and where you presently think you sit in the line of............whos turn is it to be thrown under the bus for the honor and glory of the radical left. I am not going to insist that I am a genius and you autoworkers are next, but I am far, far, from stupid; and I promise you that your industry (thus your jobs) are on the list, and you are moving up quickly!

Never did I say that everyone can become wealthy; what I insisted was, "that ANYONE can become wealthy here." What I also insisted, is that our government has now made it harder for people to even want to start their own business in any attempt to become wealthy. Now then Phil.............ever heard the old saying-------->you will NEVER get rich working for somebody else! That is probably a true statement unless you have stock options, lol. Therefore, your examples of firemen, policemen, teachers, and postal workers are a red herring. They took those jobs to make a decent living, not to get rich. How many people who took a job with The Ford Motor Company took it with the idea that Ford was going to pay them enough to be rich without actually doing something else with the money they were paid besides live? ANYONE?!?!?!?! So you see Phil, adults took jobs as policemen, firemen, and yes, even autoworkers, never expecting their jobs to pay enough for them to get rich; but yes, pay enough so as they might dabble in something else. That dabbling might get them rich, or it might buy them a Corvette or boat, their choice. If they chose the Corvette or boat, don't whine to us who didn't do that-) I feel sorry for people who want to "transform" the land opportunity, to the land of handouts; especially the older people who feel this way. It is obvious they either missed the boat or purchased one, when they should have been doing something else; and now because of their own missteps, they think our young people will do the same thing they did. On the other hand, I have confidence in our younger people. They ride the wave of technology just as we did when we were young. They want opportunity, and would love to be rich. They won't have to break their backs as many of us did to support their families, IF we can get evil business to open up here. (with such a high corporate tax rate as opposed to most other countries, good luck with that, or even keeping what we currently have) The truth is Phil and the left, if being rich is winning the golden goose, then every American has already won that lotto. Our poor live better than most of the middle class and below of the world. What was the stats I read..........if you have more than 10,000 dollars of buying power, you are in the TOP 3% of all people on planet earth! Maybe that is why you need to transform it so badly from the land of opportunity, to the land of equality of outcomes. Of course we want to look like the rest of the world, be like the rest of the world, think like the rest of the world, we see how far that has gotten them, and we all concur. Yep, we are all clamoring for the transformation, from what we were as the greatest nation the world had ever seen, to one who is just like everyone else. Let us call this transformation one that an author I read has officially named it, AMERITOPIA!!!! Obama for a 3rd term-) Hey, that is about what you will get with Hillary, so Obama, Hillary, 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other. Little or no difference.

Akirby........we should all be aware that the people that what Obama and the government are doing hurt the most, is the person who works, and saves some money. Anybody saving money in a bank is losing purchasing power every day the money sits in there. And yet, the average person has to have access to their cash, so the government slowly strangles the working person. And why? Because SOME people keep demanding RIGHTS and free stuff, so the government buys their vote by purchasing it for them. Let us face it.....what is the story iwe are told if a republican, or for goodness sake a conservative would be elected? Why the schools would lose money. The infirm would loose benefits. OMG, the hungry would starve! Let me translate that for you-----------> if you read between the lines, it is obvious that they are suggesting that people are going to lose something, therefore it is also obvious that liberals are the party of giving stuff away, because if they weren't, they could not claim that if a republican or conservative was elected the freebies would stop as there would be no freebies to revoke.

OK Phil, let us say you are correct and healthcare is a "RIGHT!" So then, you are saying that doctors, nurses, and everybody in the healthcare field must now become government workers, controlled by the government, and the government dictates how much they can make, along with all the drug companies to boot. Why? Because for me to have access to the "right" you bestowed upon me, somebody has to FORCE a doctor to take care of me if one doesn't want to accept the payment offered, a nurse has to watch over me while I recover, even if she doesn't want to accept the payment offered, and the drug company is forced to give me whatever drug I need, even if they do not want to accept the payment offered. Hmmmmm, isn't that called SOCIALISM with a bit of COMMUNISM mixed in? I believe a place we all heard of called Cuba practices your type of medicine, and we see that they are the Shang-Ri-La of where everybody wants to go when hit with a terrible disease. The United States of America has done more to bring more people out of poverty than any other place in the world, bar none. Its healthcare system was the finest the world had ever seen. But no, some people just had to tweak it, tweak everything. Now we go down this path after all the pointy headed peoples tweaking that is awful, and the given solution by the tweakers is.............to tweak it more. I would ask the persistent whiners this-----------> talk about fairness? You were born in the greatest country the world has ever seen, and you want to do what.........fix it? OMG, you are screwing it up! People are fighting to get in here every day, of every week, of every month, of every year. It is sooooooo bad you know according to you, these people must be all dumb trying to come here, don't you think? And finally, I would like to point out to you spread the wealth people, one pertinent point that seems to go over your head------------> If I made enough money to now be worth 1 billion dollars and you raise taxes, exactly how much of my 1 billion you going to get? Nada, forget about it, zero, no samolians, out of luck. Why? Pay attention..........BECAUSE I ALREADY PAID TAXES ON THAT MONEY!!!!!!!! The truth of the matter is, you are NOT punishing those that are wealthy at all, you are punishing the poor and the middle class who are trying to become wealthy!!!!!!!! I assure you, that the extremely wealthy of this country (those who are worth over 100 million in liquid assets) care less about your ridiculous taxing schemes; and in fact probably like them as you dissuade competition for them. All your dithering does is........hold YOU back from becoming rich, screw companies and corporations so much many of them change countries of origin, prevent businesses from opening up that would create more jobs, and make you look absolutely foolish as your grand schemes don't work. Just listen to a couple of people on here-----------> they want to put up a financial "Berlin Wall" to hold money here against the "owners of the moneys" will. In other words....your stuff is really not your stuff; it is certain peoples on here stuff, or maybe Obamas stuff. They didn't even loan it to you, but if they decide to take control of it, why.......they will, and it will magically become "their stuff." If the people on here who support this do NOT see how dangerous this is, and continue to support people who want to do this and succeed in getting them in office, then we as a country, deserve to go down in flames.

No offense Mr Phil, but the reason Americans across our nation became the people on the planet with the highest living standard was because........the way America did things. That wasn't good enough for some people, so just like you want, we are expected to morph into the "IDEALS" of every other nation, and of course, our country as a whole begins to mirror every other nations economy as it shrinks. The truth is.... most of the problems were created by both parties, but that has little to do with who most of us are, and that is conservatives. Republicans are almost liberal today, and democrats are fringe left wing. Coolidge and Reagan had it right. Bush II, Bush I, and Obama have it wrong as far as economics. And, I better NEVER hear another democrat say something about GWs foreign policy. I have never in my lifetime seen a President take every position available on foreign policy, switching as often as he switches his socks. I don't know how any democrat could possibly support his foreign policy, since before that democrat explained why he was in support of it, Obama would have changed it! Now then Phil, as far as the economy goes, it may surprise you to hear me say that "it is obviously getting better." Not great mind you, but better at a decent pace as of now. But, just as with FDR, the over reach of the policies is what kept us in the doll-drums for so long; and also just as with FDR, some of the supposed wonderful solutions have again given us, "extreme problems down the road." Want to study a CONSERVATIVE solution that was put into practiced and worked?!?!?!?! Think I am going to say Reagan don't you! Nope. To much liberal infusion there to claim it was even 70% conservative. Instead, look at Coolidge. Within 18 months, he had the unemployment rate from a high of somewhere around 15%, to 2.4%. That is conservatism!!!!!! He did exactly what most of the conservatives on here espouse, and it worked exactly as we proclaim it should, because we know Coolidge did it and how it worked, lol. Reagan tried but had Tip O'Neal to deal with, so it was watered down.