Fifth Gear Reviews the Mondeo

[wescoent]

Fair enough. When the redesign comes out for 2008, we'll compare it to the Mondeo. Then, if the Fusion doesn't have the gizmo's, will you give up your argument and proclaim the Mondeo better than the Fusion?

 

Gizmos? Let's break it down point by point what the Mondeo has that the Fusion doesn't, and see what's relevant, as well as the presumed cost

 

-Cool dashboard & gauge cluster: Yes, I'd like to a see a more cohesive dash with really nicely backlit instrumentation and LED displays, as well as super high-quality real wood and metal. I doubt the Fusion will come as far as the Mondeo, but I think it will be a world of improvement over the current model. $600

 

-Adaptive suspension: Also a cool feature, but completely irrelevant in this class, unless we're talking about an SVT Fusion. No one would buy it on a normal Fusion. $1,200

 

-Pushbutton start & keyless go: A gimmick that I don't particularly care for, but I'm sure people wouldn't mind: $400

 

-Electro-hydralic steering: Very nice feature that I would like to see, since the Escape already has it: $400

 

-Automatic lights: No-duh feature. $250

 

-Radar cruise control: Interesting feature that would be a boon to commuters, but I doubt many would go for it, considering the huge cost. $2,500

 

A fully loaded Fusion is already $29,935. We're talking about another 5-6 grand in cost to slather these features on, and who's paying $35,00 for a midsized Ford sedan? We're approaching the price of a base MKS.

[Pioneer]

Gizmos? Let's break it down point by point what the Mondeo has that the Fusion doesn't, and see what's relevant, as well as the presumed cost

 

-Cool dashboard & gauge cluster: Yes, I'd like to a see a more cohesive dash with really nicely backlit instrumentation and LED displays, as well as super high-quality real wood and metal. I doubt the Fusion will come as far as the Mondeo, but I think it will be a world of improvement over the current model. $600

 

-Adaptive suspension: Also a cool feature, but completely irrelevant in this class, unless we're talking about an SVT Fusion. No one would buy it on a normal Fusion. $1,200

 

-Pushbutton start & keyless go: A gimmick that I don't particularly care for, but I'm sure people wouldn't mind: $400

 

-Electro-hydralic steering: Very nice feature that I would like to see, since the Escape already has it: $400

 

-Automatic lights: No-duh feature. $250

 

-Radar cruise control: Interesting feature that would be a boon to commuters, but I doubt many would go for it, considering the huge cost. $2,500

 

A fully loaded Fusion is already $29,935. We're talking about another 5-6 grand in cost to slather these features on, and who's paying $35,00 for a midsized Ford sedan? We're approaching the price of a base MKS.

 

Lol. Keep going. Your still missing a few.

[suv_guy_19]

Lol. Keep going. Your still missing a few.

 

 

So what your really saying, is that the price for a loaded Fusion with Mondeo eqip. is even higher than 35000...Wow.

Edited September 11, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[wescoent]

Gizmos? Let's break it down point by point what the Mondeo has that the Fusion doesn't, and see what's relevant, as well as the presumed cost

 

-Cool dashboard & gauge cluster: Yes, I'd like to a see a more cohesive dash with really nicely backlit instrumentation and LED displays, as well as super high-quality real wood and metal. I doubt the Fusion will come as far as the Mondeo, but I think it will be a world of improvement over the current model. $600

 

-Adaptive suspension: Also a cool feature, but completely irrelevant in this class, unless we're talking about an SVT Fusion. No one would buy it on a normal Fusion. $1,200

 

-Pushbutton start & keyless go: A gimmick that I don't particularly care for, but I'm sure people wouldn't mind: $400

 

-Electro-hydralic steering: Very nice feature that I would like to see, since the Escape already has it: $400

 

-Automatic lights: No-duh feature. $250

 

-Radar cruise control: Interesting feature that would be a boon to commuters, but I doubt many would go for it, considering the huge cost. $2,500

 

A fully loaded Fusion is already $29,935. We're talking about another 5-6 grand in cost to slather these features on, and who's paying $35,00 for a midsized Ford sedan? We're approaching the price of a base MKS.

 

Let's put this into a more palatable context... while some of these features are pointless on the Fusion, there's no reason they shouldn't be standard or optional on the MKZ.

[suv_guy_19]

Let's put this into a more palatable context... while some of these features are pointless on the Fusion, there's no reason they shouldn't be standard or optional on the MKZ.

 

 

The Z has auto headlamps and a nice guage cluster and centre stack. So its missing a few things. i'm sure some of them will be taken care of in the next updae. Are thy getting Sync in Europe?

[RichardJensen]

Fusion is getting the electric steering, as Ford is moving all their cars to that.

 

Also, IIRC, automatic headlights are already available as part of a convenience package.

 

The rest of that stuff really has no business on a Fusion at the prices listed. Except the stupid stupid stupid 'pushbutton start'.

 

"We've eliminated all the convenience of a starting your car with a key, so you can pretend you're driving a 1966 Ford GT 40 Mark III--coming next year, a manual choke and a dial for advancing the spark!"

[ShockFX]

I'm pretty sure everyone the loves the Mondeo is really saying they want a class leading, upwards compared car (like the Mondeo is upwardly compared to BMW) available here. If Ford can do it in Europe, why not here? Name a car Ford makes for the 23-34 year old professional male other than maybe a Mazda6 or S40(too small though)? $27k-$40k range.

Edited September 11, 2007 by ShockFX

[suv_guy_19]

I'm pretty sure everyone the loves the Mondeo is really saying they want a class leading, BMW comparable car available here. If Ford can do it in Europe, why not here? Name a car Ford makes for the 23-34 year old professional male other than maybe a Mazda6 or S40(too small though)? $27k-$40k range.

 

27 to 40K is a big range. And what is wrong with the MKZ, or a Fusion SEL, or a Taurus for that matter. Thats not to mention the upcoming MKS. I can't wait for that.

[RichardJensen]

If Ford can do it in Europe, why not here? Name a car Ford makes for the 23-34 year old professional male other than maybe a Mazda6 or S40(too small though)? $27k-$40k range.

1) Because this -isn't- Europe. I would -love- to see the income profile of the typical Mondeo buyer in the EU. I would just -love- that data. I'm going to guess it's not people making $40-50k a few years into their first job out of college (Ford's target age and income bracket for the Fusion).

 

2) Buy a Mazda6 already. It's not like you're stealing from Ford, and you'd never be happy with a Ford anyway. Why? Because it would still be a Ford. Nothing Ford could do would make it a BMW, and even if it was in every respect superior to a BMW it still wouldn't be. Why? Because it's a Ford, not a BMW. Fords aren't as good as BMWs. And no matter how good they are, barring a MAJOR screwup on BMW's part, Fords will always be rungs below BMW on the ladder.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No one will ever flatter a BMW by comparing it to a Ford, and that should be instructive. Nobody ever -has- compared a BMW to a Ford, so it's not just that Ford's 'let itself go', it never had 'it' in the first place.

 

Whenever you say, "A Ford to compete with the BMWs" you are tacitly admitting failure. You are ceding to BMW the authority over how the 'game' is played. You are setting yourself on a never-ending game of catch-up.

 

You won't get anything but BMW leavings by chasing BMW.

[ShockFX]

27 to 40K is a big range. And what is wrong with the MKZ, or a Fusion SEL, or a Taurus for that matter. Thats not to mention the upcoming MKS. I can't wait for that.

 

It's arguable the range for A4/3series/IS/C-class. MkZ is FWD and not really sporty nor has the cachet. Fusion isn't upscale and has 220hp atm. Taurus for a young guy wanting a fun sporty sedan? I own a Mazda 6s, but my next car will be a G37 coupe or sedan. Let's be honest, if you want a G37/330i/C280/IS350 you don't want an MkZ or S40, nor will you even compare them.

[suv_guy_19]

It's arguable the range for A4/3series/IS/C-class. MkZ is FWD and not really sporty nor has the cachet. Fusion isn't upscale and has 220hp atm. Taurus for a young guy wanting a fun sporty sedan? I own a Mazda 6s, but my next car will be a G37 coupe or sedan. Let's be honest, if you want a G37/330i/C280/IS350 you don't want an MkZ or S40, nor will you even compare them.

 

 

Then why would you want a FWD Mondeo. The Mondeo doesn't compete with the cars you've mentioned anyway. The Mondeo has less than the Fusion.

Edited September 11, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[ShockFX]

1) Because this -isn't- Europe. I would -love- to see the income profile of the typical Mondeo buyer in the EU. I would just -love- that data. I'm going to guess it's not people making $40-50k a few years into their first job out of college (Ford's target age and income bracket for the Fusion).

I know this isn't Europe, but I'm not talking about the Fusion anyway.

 

2) Buy a Mazda6 already. It's not like you're stealing from Ford, and you'd never be happy with a Ford anyway. Why? Because it would still be a Ford. Nothing Ford could do would make it a BMW, and even if it was in every respect superior to a BMW it still wouldn't be. Why? Because it's a Ford, not a BMW. Fords aren't as good as BMWs. And no matter how good they are, barring a MAJOR screwup on BMW's part, Fords will always be rungs below BMW on the ladder.

No one will ever flatter a BMW by comparing it to a Ford, and that should be instructive. Nobody ever -has- compared a BMW to a Ford, so it's not just that Ford's 'let itself go', it never had 'it' in the first place.

 

Whenever you say, "A Ford to compete with the BMWs" you are tacitly admitting failure. You are ceding to BMW the authority over how the 'game' is played. You are setting yourself on a never-ending game of catch-up.

 

You won't get anything but BMW leavings by chasing BMW.

 

I own a Mazda6. But on that note, I want a reason to buy a Ford product. Where is there to go past Mazda in terms of performance and luxury? Also, I don't want Ford to be BMW, I never even said close to that (ironically Ford tried to buy BMW around 2000 but the BMW family wouldn't cede control in a merger). I said Ford in Europe builds class leading cars that are so good they are compared upward. I was using the comparison to BMW as my example, not my goal for all Fords. Why does that not happen here? I don't see comparisons of Fords here to cars costing thousands more.

[RichardJensen]

"You're wearing Starrzelius Verily clothes and shoes, Jack. It means we got you. Taunton and Universal worked on you, Starrzelius and Schocken worked on you. Smoothly, without your ever being aware that it was happening, you became persuaded that there was something rather nice about Starrzelius clothes and shoes and that there was something rather not nice about Universal clothes and shoes."

 

"I never read the ads," he said defiantly.

 

I grinned. "Our ultimate triumph is wrapped up in that statement," I said.

 

"I solemnly promise," O'Shea said, "that as soon as I get back to my hotel room I'll send my clothes right down the incinerator chute--"

 

"Luggage too?" I asked. "Starrzelius luggage?"

 

He looked startled for a moment and then regained his calm. "Starrzelius luggage too," he said. "And then I'll pick up the phone and order a complete set of Universal luggage and apparel. And you can't stop me."

 

"I wouldn't dream of stopping you, Jack! It means more business for Starrzelius. Tell you what you're going to do: you'll get your complete set of Universal luggage and apparel. You'll use the luggage and wear the apparel for a while with a vague, submerged discontent. It's going to work on your libido, because our ads for Starrzelius--even though you say you don't read them--have convinced you that it isn't quite virile to trade with any other firm. Your self-esteem will suffer; deep down you'll know that you're not wearing the best. Your subconscious won't stand up under much of that. You'll find yourself 'losing' bits of Universal apparel. You'll find yourself 'accidentally' putting your foot through the cuff of your Universal pants. You'll find yourself overpacking the Universal luggage and damning it for not being roomier. You'll walk into stores and in a fit of momentary amnesia regarding this conversation you'll buy Starrzelius, bless you."

--Space Merchants by Frederick Pohl and C M Kornbluth

 

A serious stretch of reality, but containing a vital nugget of truth. The things we purchase are a major part of how we see ourselves. This is why making over Ford is such a project, and why any Ford that 'competes' with a BMW will never really beat BMW at its own game.

[suv_guy_19]

I know this isn't Europe, but I'm not talking about the Fusion anyway.

I own a Mazda6. But on that note, I want a reason to buy a Ford product. Where is there to go past Mazda in terms of performance and luxury? Also, I don't want Ford to be BMW, I never even said close to that (ironically Ford tried to buy BMW around 2000 but the BMW family wouldn't cede control in a merger). I said Ford in Europe builds class leading cars that are so good they are compared upward. I was using the comparison to BMW as my example, not my goal for all Fords. Why does that not happen here? I don't see comparisons of Fords here to cars costing thousands more.

 

 

You own a Mazda 6, a FWD car. Why not an MKZ, base on the 6, more powerful, and available AWD. I can't follow your logic. the only aswer is that you don't want to own a Lincoln.

[ShockFX]

Then why would you want a FWD Mondeo. The Mondeo doesn't compete with the cars you've mentioned anyway. The Mondeo has less than the Fusion.

 

I don't want a Mondeo. It's what the Mondeo represents that I want here.

[RichardJensen]

I own a Mazda6. But on that note, I want a reason to buy a Ford product. Where is there to go past Mazda in terms of performance and luxury? Also, I don't want Ford to be BMW, I never even said close to that (ironically Ford tried to buy BMW around 2000 but the BMW family wouldn't cede control in a merger). I said Ford in Europe builds class leading cars that are so good they are compared upward. I was using the comparison to BMW as my example, not my goal for all Fords. Why does that not happen here? I don't see comparisons of Fords here to cars costing thousands more.

Past Mazda? Jaguar. At least the XF. Too bad they won't offer an I-6 model here on the cheap.

 

As far as Ford products being compared upward: The Mondeo ST with the turbo I-5 that competes with the BMW 3-series is priced within a stones throw of it. Probably no more than a couple thousand dollars (just a guess). I mean they're not comparing it to the M3, and the 6 cylinder 3 starts around $34k with fake leather seats (or is that just on the 4-cylinder).

 

Given what Mazda did with the same chassis with the Mazdaspeed6, I have no doubt that the Fusion -could- be bolstered up into a vehicle that has serious 'bang for the buck.'

 

But that's not what the vehicle needs.

 

What the vehicle needs is to have a lot of niggling shortcomings addressed, as they will improve the ownership experience for -all- owners.

 

With the SVT models and even the SHO, Ford spent money on performance that would have been better spent on things that would benefit all owners. I think it's a sign of progress that they're not looking for an easy way, a quick 'fix' that doesn't address underlying problems, but seeks to mask them.

[suv_guy_19]

I don't want a Mondeo. It's what the Mondeo represents that I want here.

 

 

It represents a large family car.

[ShockFX]

You own a Mazda 6, a FWD car. Why not an MKZ, base on the 6, more powerful, and available AWD. I can't follow your logic. the only aswer is that you don't want to own a Lincoln.

 

I own a Mazda6 yes, but where do you go upwards from there in terms of performance and luxury? The MKZ is a performance downgrade from my 5spd 6s. And it's AWD sure, but it's dynamically a FWD car. Isn't the AWD system in it a version of the Haldex system from Volvo that only spins the back wheels if the front wheels lost grip? The MkZ is not a performance car. I want Lincoln to compete with BMW/Audi/Lexus, but that means matching them in terms of dynamics/powertrain options/luxury options. I want a 3 series fighter, a 5 series fighter, etc. The MkZ hits the RX350 segment, that's a step in the right direction.

[suv_guy_19]

I own a Mazda6 yes, but where do you go upwards from there in terms of performance and luxury? The MKZ is a performance downgrade from my 5spd 6s. And it's AWD sure, but it's dynamically a FWD car. Isn't the AWD system in it a version of the Haldex system from Volvo that only spins the back wheels if the front wheels lost grip? The MkZ is not a performance car. I want Lincoln to compete with BMW/Audi/Lexus, but that means matching them in terms of dynamics/powertrain options/luxury options. I want a 3 series fighter, a 5 series fighter, etc. The MkZ hits the RX350 segment, that's a step in the right direction.

 

But we shouldn't be shooting for BMW with Lincoln. Non performance Mercedes and Lexus. Thats a better aim.

Edited September 11, 2007 by suv_guy_19

[RichardJensen]

The AWD system is not from Haldex, and it diverts power when it detects the slightest hint of wheelspin.

 

What this means to you:

 

Power is shifted to the rear wheels under acceleration.

 

---

 

However, the MKZ is not a performance car. It is not sprung so, it's steering is not boosted so.

 

---

 

And I re-iterate: trying to compete with some other company's products is a fast way to 2nd place.

 

You simply cannot look at the marketplace in terms of the other products being sold.

 

You need to look at the marketplace in terms of the people buying the product.

 

You make it a goal to 'monkey-see monkey-do' the consumer orientation of another brand, and you've assured yourself a position as the perpetual number two in the hearts and minds of the customers you want to win.

[ShockFX]

Past Mazda? Jaguar. At least the XF. Too bad they won't offer an I-6 model here on the cheap.

 

As far as Ford products being compared upward: The Mondeo ST with the turbo I-5 that competes with the BMW 3-series is priced within a stones throw of it. Probably no more than a couple thousand dollars (just a guess). I mean they're not comparing it to the M3, and the 6 cylinder 3 starts around $34k with fake leather seats (or is that just on the 4-cylinder).

 

Given what Mazda did with the same chassis with the Mazdaspeed6, I have no doubt that the Fusion -could- be bolstered up into a vehicle that has serious 'bang for the buck.'

 

But that's not what the vehicle needs.

 

What the vehicle needs is to have a lot of niggling shortcomings addressed, as they will improve the ownership experience for -all- owners.

 

With the SVT models and even the SHO, Ford spent money on performance that would have been better spent on things that would benefit all owners. I think it's a sign of progress that they're not looking for an easy way, a quick 'fix' that doesn't address underlying problems, but seeks to mask them.

Ford won't be owning Jaguar too much longer, and the XF will be well above $35k, at least it had damn well better be in the 5series range, not the 3 series range. And for the last time, I'm not saying offer the Mondeo here, I'm saying offer class leading dynamics and style in the cars here. The Mondeo is so good it's compared upwards, last I checked, no one is comparing ANY Ford product upward. I'm also NOT talking about the Fusion, the Fusion isn't the car I want. My point is Ford doesn't make ANY car that fits what I want. There is no car anyone shopping a C/3/A4/IS/G will want to look at at Ford. Ford is missing entire segments by refusing to compete.

[ShockFX]

But we shouldn't be shooting for BMW with Lincoln. Non performance Mercedes and Lexus. Thats a better aim.

Ok, let's target the IS/GS/LS/ES then. The point is it doesn't matter which brand you pick, Ford doesn't play in that space. Stop nitpicking what I'm saying. Shoot for something, anything, but at least make an effort.

[ShockFX]

The AWD system is not from Haldex, and it diverts power when it detects the slightest hint of wheelspin.

 

What this means to you:

 

Power is shifted to the rear wheels under acceleration.

Wow, are you kidding me? You're going to explain what AWD does? Thanks. What this means to me: If the fucking car was RWD it would weigh less than the AWD version, have better acceleration from less weight and spinning the rear wheels to start, have a tighter turning radius, and have better weight balance.

---

 

However, the MKZ is not a performance car. It is not sprung so, it's steering is not boosted so.

 

---

No kidding. I never said it was. I'm saying THERE IS NO PERFORMANCE CAR available. Or even close to near performance like a C280.

 

And I re-iterate: trying to compete with some other company's products is a fast way to 2nd place.

 

You simply cannot look at the marketplace in terms of the other products being sold.

 

You need to look at the marketplace in terms of the people buying the product.

 

You make it a goal to 'monkey-see monkey-do' the consumer orientation of another brand, and you've assured yourself a position as the perpetual number two in the hearts and minds of the customers you want to win.

What are you talking about? Every Ford competes with another car. I'm not looking at the marketplace in terms of the products being sold. I EXPLICITLY SAID 23-34 year old male around $27k-$40k. Did you completely fail to read that? I never said Ford had to copy another brand, I said they are completely ignoring a great market.

[RichardJensen]

post deleted. No point to it. Even by my standards.

Edited September 11, 2007 by RichardJensen

[RichardJensen]

Wow, are you kidding me?

Are you kidding ME?

 

You want Ford to build you a BMW and sell it to you for less than a BMW because it's a Ford.

 

Do you have any idea how stupid that is?