OAC News

[aloha]

Maybe the union sees how stupid we are, so they are joining the other side. The union is overseeing the dismantling of our employment. Maybe they see the writing on the wall and are working for their own survival. We need a union that will at least man the ramparts with us and fight so that at least if we go down, we go down in glory and with dignity. In retirement, we will be able to look our grand-children in the eye. As it stands now, we will be looked upon as a bunch of fat cats who priced ourselves out of the market. That is not how it is. We made good money because we lived through boom times. We also worked hard for every penny.

i would never say we dont work hard for our money, but your response is so full of holes it makes know sence. Simple question what would you like the union to do? Why is it we watch the world trade fall apart right in front of our eyes and you automatically want to blame the union, what happened to the auto pact, why does the Government allow the continous flow of imports yet we cant export our vehicles. Maybe you should start putting the blame where it belongs. Im quite sure if the union would have said to the company shove it up your ying yang at bargaining, there would have been a lot of excitement on future plans for Oakville in Detroit. If that would of happened and the company closes the plant guys like yourself would have critisized the Union, they did what they had to do and the membership made the final decision, so lets leave it at that.

its funny how you say fat cats, well look outside my friend if you can do better quit, im sure there are thousands of jobs out there that pays the same we make.

[Trimdingman]

i would never say we dont work hard for our money, but your response is so full of holes it makes know sence. Simple question what would you like the union to do? Why is it we watch the world trade fall apart right in front of our eyes and you automatically want to blame the union, what happened to the auto pact, why does the Government allow the continous flow of imports yet we cant export our vehicles. Maybe you should start putting the blame where it belongs. Im quite sure if the union would have said to the company shove it up your ying yang at bargaining, there would have been a lot of excitement on future plans for Oakville in Detroit. If that would of happened and the company closes the plant guys like yourself would have critisized the Union, they did what they had to do and the membership made the final decision, so lets leave it at that.

its funny how you say fat cats, well look outside my friend if you can do better quit, im sure there are thousands of jobs out there that pays the same we make.

 

 

We never needed the Autopact. Carmakers always built over what was required in the Autopact, even after the Autopact was withdrawn. That decision had nothing to do with the Canadian government. It was done by the UN.

 

I have what I have because of a lifetime of work, just like anyone else my age. Someone just starting out can't expect to be entitled to the same. I am not about to throw it all away out of some communist brain wave. Maybe being an autoworker is not something that will have a future. going forward. I don't know what is in store for the next generation. My parents had it hard for a while. I was pretty lucky so far. Of course, I didn't always have the high tech toys that you have. By to-day's standards, I would have been considered third world poverty when I was growing up.

 

My complaint with the union is that they have placed themselves in a conflict of interest position by representing the people who are taking our jobs. There is not a big incentive for them to protect our jobs if they still get to collect union dues from the ones who are taking them. How would you like it if you went into a divorce court and your lawyer was representing your ex-spouse also? CAW union reps at Premier and Automodular will be fighting to take more of our jobs. This situation is totally wrong. We need to kick them out and get a different union.

[charly]

We never needed the Autopact. Carmakers always built over what was required in the Autopact, even after the Autopact was withdrawn. That decision had nothing to do with the Canadian government. It was done by the UN.

 

I have what I have because of a lifetime of work, just like anyone else my age. Someone just starting out can't expect to be entitled to the same. I am not about to throw it all away out of some communist brain wave. Maybe being an autoworker is not something that will have a future. going forward. I don't know what is in store for the next generation. My parents had it hard for a while. I was pretty lucky so far. Of course, I didn't always have the high tech toys that you have. By to-day's standards, I would have been considered third world poverty when I was growing up.

 

My complaint with the union is that they have placed themselves in a conflict of interest position by representing the people who are taking our jobs. There is not a big incentive for them to protect our jobs if they still get to collect union dues from the ones who are taking them. How would you like it if you went into a divorce court and your lawyer was representing your ex-spouse also? CAW union reps at Premier and Automodular will be fighting to take more of our jobs. This situation is totally wrong. We need to kick them out and get a different union.

 

The autopact reversal was a WTO initiative that the Canadian asshole government bought into.

[aloha]

We never needed the Autopact. Carmakers always built over what was required in the Autopact, even after the Autopact was withdrawn. That decision had nothing to do with the Canadian government. It was done by the UN.

 

I have what I have because of a lifetime of work, just like anyone else my age. Someone just starting out can't expect to be entitled to the same. I am not about to throw it all away out of some communist brain wave. Maybe being an autoworker is not something that will have a future. going forward. I don't know what is in store for the next generation. My parents had it hard for a while. I was pretty lucky so far. Of course, I didn't always have the high tech toys that you have. By to-day's standards, I would have been considered third world poverty when I was growing up.

 

My complaint with the union is that they have placed themselves in a conflict of interest position by representing the people who are taking our jobs. There is not a big incentive for them to protect our jobs if they still get to collect union dues from the ones who are taking them. How would you like it if you went into a divorce court and your lawyer was representing your ex-spouse also? CAW union reps at Premier and Automodular will be fighting to take more of our jobs. This situation is totally wrong. We need to kick them out and get a different union.

are you kidding me we dont need the autopact, you seem to be smart, why is it then are we selling more than we build, at least with the autopact we had a one for one. Theres no question Premier and Automodular are willing to take our jobs but at least we have a say and try to maintain our jobs, give GM a call and ask how there making out with Teamsters representing their cleaners, they spend more time in court on work ownership with the two unions arguing over it

[Trimdingman]

The autopact reversal was a WTO initiative that the Canadian asshole government bought into.

 

The WTO used to be GATT, General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, a UN organization. NAFTA made the Autopact obsolete, anyway. To go against a WTO ruling would have meant sanctions against Canada by all other countries in the group. The Autopact was abolished in 2001. The asshole government in power at the time was the Liberals under #1 asshole Jean Chretien.

[Trimdingman]

are you kidding me we dont need the autopact, you seem to be smart, why is it then are we selling more than we build, at least with the autopact we had a one for one. Theres no question Premier and Automodular are willing to take our jobs but at least we have a say and try to maintain our jobs, give GM a call and ask how there making out with Teamsters representing their cleaners, they spend more time in court on work ownership with the two unions arguing over it

 

We are still in compliance with the Auto Pact as far as building the value of cars that we sell in Canada. The Auto Pact didn't protect against outsourcing of jobs to places like Premier and Automodular. That was the union's job. They obviously went along with it, as they are now in cahoots with ones who took our jobs, mine included.

[banker55]

We are still in compliance with the Auto Pact as far as building the value of cars that we sell in Canada. The Auto Pact didn't protect against outsourcing of jobs to places like Premier and Automodular. That was the union's job. They obviously went along with it, as they are now in cahoots with ones who took our jobs, mine included.

"The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit...Samual Gompers". He knew a weak company reduces union power and by any definition Ford has been a very weak company in North America. Ford sales in NA the last

10 years have gone from well over 4 million to under 2 million. Over that time span they have lost tens of billions of dollars in North America. During my time at Ford, we closed the following assembly plants; Los Angeles, San Jose,Mahwah,Edison,Norfolk,Atlanta,

Lorain, St Louis , Wixom, Dearborn , Oakville Truck, Wayne Assembly(Michigan Truck stays open as Wayne Assembly Complex)....it also looks like St Thomas and Twin Cities well join the list. All of these plants were supported by engine plants, stamping plants etc

Thats a lot of union power gone.....like playing euchre with nines and tens....and the companies hand is no better. When Ford returns to consistant profits and you run tens on two shifts, the union power returns......Trim.... it is nice to see someone who understands

the Auto Pack......maybe you did well on IQ tests......maybe.......do you think we should let the Federal and Provincial governments into the euchre game.....they have the jokers

[foxrun]

"The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit...Samual Gompers". He knew a weak company reduces union power and by any definition Ford has been a very weak company in North America. Ford sales in NA the last

10 years have gone from well over 4 million to under 2 million. Over that time span they have lost tens of billions of dollars in North America. During my time at Ford, we closed the following assembly plants; Los Angeles, San Jose,Mahwah,Edison,Norfolk,Atlanta,

Lorain, St Louis , Wixom, Dearborn , Oakville Truck, Wayne Assembly(Michigan Truck stays open as Wayne Assembly Complex)....it also looks like St Thomas and Twin Cities well join the list. All of these plants were supported by engine plants, stamping plants etc

Thats a lot of union power gone.....like playing euchre with nines and tens....and the companies hand is no better. When Ford returns to consistant profits and you run tens on two shifts, the union power returns......Trim.... it is nice to see someone who understands

the Auto Pack......maybe you did well on IQ tests......maybe.......do you think we should let the Federal and Provincial governments into the euchre game.....they have the jokers

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of transplants in N.A. comes close to the number of closed Big 3 plants.

Do you think that just happened by chance?

Have consumers been duped with the constant and consistent drum beat of "imports are better quality"?

Some people like to believe the fear is so ingrained now that it is self induced .

Constant and consistent competiton everywhere all the time.

Kaizan, Six Sigma, whatever, it all had one name many years ago and everyone new clearly how wrong it was.

[banker55]

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of transplants in N.A. comes close to the number of closed Big 3 plants.

Do you think that just happened by chance?

Have consumers been duped with the constant and consistent drum beat of "imports are better quality"?

Some people like to believe the fear is so ingrained now that it is self induced .

Constant and consistent competiton everywhere all the time.

Kaizan, Six Sigma, whatever, it all had one name many years ago and everyone new clearly how wrong it was.

We used to have a t-shirt at St. Thomas years ago...Buy The Cars Your Neighbours Help To Build......they never did........

The Japanese buy Japanese cars,the Germans buy German cars, Italians buy Italian cars, the French buy French cars, Swedes buy Volvo

and Koreans buy Korean cars.....the home team dominates the home market.....except in North America....the europeans pay good money

to support well paid union auto workers......Ford and Gm have way under half of the North American market.....I have owned 2 Fords,every year

since 1972 and only had one bad one.....1997 Explorer.......my last 4 ....Escape,Mach1,f-150 and Five Hundred have been perfect.....and the

new cars are better and look great.....can't wait to see Fiesta and new Focus......and hear the new 5.0 litre....things are looking somewhat better

[Trimdingman]

"The worst crime against working people is a company which fails to operate at a profit...Samual Gompers". He knew a weak company reduces union power and by any definition Ford has been a very weak company in North America. Ford sales in NA the last

10 years have gone from well over 4 million to under 2 million. Over that time span they have lost tens of billions of dollars in North America. During my time at Ford, we closed the following assembly plants; Los Angeles, San Jose,Mahwah,Edison,Norfolk,Atlanta,

Lorain, St Louis , Wixom, Dearborn , Oakville Truck, Wayne Assembly(Michigan Truck stays open as Wayne Assembly Complex)....it also looks like St Thomas and Twin Cities well join the list. All of these plants were supported by engine plants, stamping plants etc

Thats a lot of union power gone.....like playing euchre with nines and tens....and the companies hand is no better. When Ford returns to consistant profits and you run tens on two shifts, the union power returns......Trim.... it is nice to see someone who understands

the Auto Pack......maybe you did well on IQ tests......maybe.......do you think we should let the Federal and Provincial governments into the euchre game.....they have the jokers

 

I know that the auto industry is supposed to be struggling. If you were to look at the demographics ten years ago, which I am sure they did, all of this was predictable and expected. Downsizing, without first educating the public is suicide. G.M found that out the hard way in Flint Michigan. I am not saying that these plants didn't have to close, and maybe some jobs had to be outsourced. What I am saying is that the union should be working for us . We are the ones paying them. Workers coming in and doing our jobs for 1/2 the wages is a serious problem for us, and the union should be trying to stop this from happening, not welcoming them with open arms and representing them when their interests conflict with ours. The only possible reasons that I can fathom for the union to be taking these people on as clients is either strictly for the money, or else they know that eventually all of our jobs will be outsourced, and they are ensuring their own survival as we go down with the ship. A union that was true to us would fight for and alongside us to the finish. To me this proves that they were just in it for the money all along, and all this talk about solidarity and brotherhood was just brainwashing.

[Trimdingman]

The union has been expending a lot of energy lately over the splitting of the vacation shutdown. This is a red herring. We have bigger fish to fry. We need to stop the outsourcing. We need to get our COLA back. Our #1 priority right now should be to save the material handling jobs. Who cares about the shut down? A fork lift job is the best that anyone on the line right now can aspire to. They won't even have that if it is outsourced. They are trying to distract us with this nonsense while they shoplift our valuables.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Trimdingman

[foxrun]

The union has been expending a lot of energy lately over the splitting of the vacation shutdown. This is a red herring. We have bigger fish to fry. We need to stop the outsourcing. We need to get our COLA back. Our #1 priority right now should be to save the material handling jobs. Who cares about the shut down? A fork lift job is the best that anyone on the line right now can aspire to. They won't even have that if it is outsourced. They are trying to distract us with this nonsense while they shoplift our valuables.

 

 

Too late all the union has left is posturing. When silicon implants can trump honest hard work, fascism is already too entrenched.

[Trimdingman]

How about creating some "sunset" jobs out of the remaining premium jobs. As it is now, senior workers have to hop, skip, and jump to get them. Two "stock chaser" jobs are on the board. You have to belong to the department to bid on them. A little "psst psst" in the ear by some company or union rep to the senior worker they like, and they bid into the appropriate department ahead of the premium job posting. It is wide open for corruption. These jobs should be open to all workers.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Trimdingman

[WTF????]

It is wide open for corruption. These jobs should be open to all workers.

 

Kinda like the Prototype Room jobs.

 

When these jobs when originally posted they were supposed to be temporary and were recently made permanent....hence all the leader jobs in trim that were posted a couple months ago. I'm pretty confident the bidding seniority would have been just a wee bit different had these jobs been noted as being permanent the first go around.

[Trimdingman]

Kinda like the Prototype Room jobs.

 

When these jobs when originally posted they were supposed to be temporary and were recently made permanent....hence all the leader jobs in trim that were posted a couple months ago. I'm pretty confident the bidding seniority would have been just a wee bit different had these jobs been noted as being permanent the first go around.

 

Where is the union? Many senior workers have had their lives turned upside down. Now, instead of assisting them to obtain jobs consistent with their seniority, games are being played with them to shut them out of these jobs. They didn't ask for their jobs to be outsourced. Now the union is treating their new clients at Premier better than the ones who have been paying them dues for over 30 years. The union must see a future when all jobs will be outsourced, and they are jumping ship, leaving us "dinosaurs" behind. If they don't want to represent us any more, we should get a new union that does.

[foxrun]

Where is the union? Many senior workers have had their lives turned upside down. Now, instead of assisting them to obtain jobs consistent with their seniority, games are being played with them to shut them out of these jobs. They didn't ask for their jobs to be outsourced. Now the union is treating their new clients at Premier better than the ones who have been paying them dues for over 30 years. The union must see a future when all jobs will be outsourced, and they are jumping ship, leaving us "dinosaurs" behind. If they don't want to represent us any more, we should get a new union that does.

 

Can't see how this union will be able to serve two seperate interests at the same time in the same work enviroment. Looks to me like there will have to be some kind of merger at some point which doesn't bode well for the higher wage worker. All the "not mes" out there should reconsider their positions too, pensioners, trades and finally management are not untouchable. Its happened many times across North America, Walmartization is a very real thing and it starts by convincing the indiviual they are worth just a little more then the guy next to them.

Edited March 18, 2010 by foxrun

[putt]

Where is the union? Many senior workers have had their lives turned upside down. Now, instead of assisting them to obtain jobs consistent with their seniority, games are being played with them to shut them out of these jobs. They didn't ask for their jobs to be outsourced. Now the union is treating their new clients at Premier better than the ones who have been paying them dues for over 30 years. The union must see a future when all jobs will be outsourced, and they are jumping ship, leaving us "dinosaurs" behind. If they don't want to represent us any more, we should get a new union that does.

 

 

You have 2 options

 

quit

 

retire

 

but you will not you would not know what to do with your time, no one to bitch to etc. etc etc.

[foxrun]

You have 2 options

 

quit

 

retire

 

but you will not you would not know what to do with your time, no one to bitch to etc. etc etc.

 

If you don't like it GTFO, what kind of attitude is that.

[Trimdingman]

You have 2 options

 

quit

 

retire

 

but you will not you would not know what to do with your time, no one to bitch to etc. etc etc.

 

I appreciate your sensitivity to the plight of seniors. I have a family, and feel a responsibility to them. I do not buy into this government stimulus program. It didn't work for FDR, and it will not work now, just make the economy worse, and possibly lead to another World War, as it did then. This is why I am reluctant to retire. They just try to sugar coat everything and make it sound too good. I have a life expectancy of 20 more years. I plan to live 30 more. The union says that I am working for next to nothing. They are lying. I am making $50,000 a year over pension. This will increase as pensions erode with inflation. In five years, pensions could easily lose 50% of their buying power. The union will never advise people with 30 years seniority to take this into consideration. They just want them out. It is like the union is taking it's marching orders from the company. It is useless to look to the union for advice. You have to space yourself away from them and think for yourself, and block anything they say from your mind. Anyone who follows what the union says to a T is a mental midget.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Trimdingman

[rn4]

I appreciate your sensitivity to the plight of seniors. I have a family, and feel a responsibility to them. I do not buy into this government stimulus program. It didn't work for FDR, and it will not work now, just make the economy worse, and possibly lead to another World War, as it did then. This is why I am reluctant to retire. They just try to sugar coat everything and make it sound too good. I have a life expectancy of 20 more years. I plan to live 30 more. The union says that I am working for next to nothing. They are lying. I am making $50,000 a year over pension. This will increase as pensions erode with inflation. In five years, pensions could easily lose 50% of their buying power. The union will never advise people with 30 years seniority to take this into consideration. They just want them out. It is like the union is taking it's marching orders from the company. It is useless to look to the union for advice. You have to space yourself away from them and think for yourself, and block anything they say from your mind. Anyone who follows what the union says to a T is a mental midget.

 

 

You must be working a hell of alot of overtime or else I'm calling bullshit on that statement.

[Trimdingman]

You must be working a hell of alot of overtime or else I'm calling bullshit on that statement.

 

It doesn't take much o-t to make 100gs, and it is easy money. I made 101gs last year counting EI and SUB. I had to pay back six hundred of my EI. Big deal. People with over 30 years seniority, which is who we are talking about, have these overtime jobs. Two grand a week is about 500 in overtime. At $50 an hour, that's 10 hours. No problem. If they schedule 10 hours, you only need a few Saturdays a year.

[rn4]

It doesn't take much o-t to make 100gs, and it is easy money. I made 101gs last year counting EI and SUB. I had to pay back six hundred of my EI. Big deal. People with over 30 years seniority, which is who we are talking about, have these overtime jobs. Two grand a week is about 500 in overtime. At $50 an hour, that's 10 hours. No problem. If they schedule 10 hours, you only need a few Saturdays a year.

 

 

Your hourly rate must be more than in the states, I worked 89 sraight days at 12 hours a day and still didn't make 100gs.

[fastime]

Your hourly rate must be more than in the states, I worked 89 sraight days at 12 hours a day and still didn't make 100gs.

 

If they tell you the Canadians are stealing your jobs by undercutting your wages they are lying.

[Trimdingman]

Your hourly rate must be more than in the states, I worked 89 sraight days at 12 hours a day and still didn't make 100gs.

 

Average is around $35 an hour counting shift premium. That's $1400 for 40 hours. Ten hours overtime at time and a half is $525. That's $1925. That will give you close to $100,000. There is still Sunday work, holiday work, and Christmas shutdown. I didn't work Christmas, but I know some who scored $6000. It doesn't take much to make $100,000; even $120,000 when times are good. That sure beats the hell out of a sub-$50,000 pension, even with the package thrown in. It is a good bonus if you are planning to retire anyway., but a lot of people are being hoodwinked into retiring before their time.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Trimdingman

[Trimdingman]

Your hourly rate must be more than in the states, I worked 89 sraight days at 12 hours a day and still didn't make 100gs.

Did you check your hours on your pay stubs? If you worked 84 hours a week for over 12 weeks straight, that would be 112 straight time hours per week (14x5 Monday to Friday + 18 for Saturday and 24 for Sunday at double time) That is 1344 hours at $30 an hour, comes to $40,320. If you worked a 40 hour week for the other 40 weeks, plus the other five 12 hour days, that comes to $48000 plus $1200, for a grand total of $89,520. It is highly unlikely that you would work 89 straight days of 12 hours a day, and no other overtime during the year. I would look into it if I were you.