Next gen Prius to use roof solar panels

[rmc523]

It'd be doable in a few years if they started the development work now.

 

Well, I'd like to see things like this happen, I think it'd be a great way to increase overall vehicle efficiency.

[V8 Ford]

I don't think economies of scale is the biggest factor thing keeping the top grade cells so pricy. They've got the biggest overhead cost from R&D and are produced in the smallest quantities, but if building more to amortize the fixed costs would solve the pricing problems (just by enough to make them best cost/watt) the space grade manufacturers would simply be able to ramp up production and destroy the competition. I think the problem is complexity of manufacturing and material costs; gallium-arsenide cells have always been the most expensive and best while the cheap cells are silicon based (although complex, and much more expensive and efficient Silicon cells are available).

 

But you're right, the tech will get better making cost/power better and everything dependent on it more viable, I just don't think that what's usable will jump from 10% to 28% efficiency any time soon (although if so, great for everyone). The original solar cars averaged 30mph over the race, and took them over a week to complete the race. Now the top contenders can average highway speeds and finish in a couple days.

Edited July 11, 2008 by V8 Ford

[old_fairmont_wagon]

What's the advantage to building the ultra-high grade stuff in that large of quantities? It'd still be prohibitively expensive for the first few years no matter what and, for terrestrial stuff, very few applications are as space concious as vehicles. For roof and field installations, they are looking at price per watt production, not watts per square foot so much. Vehicle will have to look at price per square inch per watt relationships, finally bringing a need for large scale production of the higher efficiency units. The other point is, do you really want gallium arsenide panels on vehicles that have such a high crash and destruction rate as automobiles? IIRC that isn't exactly a chemical combination you want littering the streets after an accident. I'm thinking that silicon panels will be the likely choice not only for their cost basis, but also for their more inert environmental characteristics.

 

And, like I said originally, this is a supplemental technology, not the end-all be-all of propulsion power for the car. It may provide a limp-home mode of 20 mph in the right conditions if you run out of gas in the middle of the desert at high noon with a minivan with a roof full of the stuff after you've stripped every non-essential ounce of weight from the vehicle, but that's about it. IT will, however, provide a decent battery charge after about 8-9 hours of being parked in the company parking lot in the sunlight in much of the US, maye enough to get you 40-50 miles down the road to your house where the plug in recharger can charge you up for the trip back to work. Since its a hybrid, you still have a 10 gallon or so tank of gas that can do the deed if you're hard up for sun at work, however. No, I realize that this won't work for everyone (heck, were it not for the fact that I could park on the top floor of the parking garage at work, it wouldn't even work for me) but it will help a lot of people. And, yes, there are some that work at night. Well, you're in luck. It recharges all day long while you are sleeping and, since you're driving at night, you probably don't need your A/C. Your LED headlights don't use all that much juice, same with your tail lights. You might even be able to make it back and forth to work without even needing to plug in, ever.

 

How's that for not straining the grid?

[V8 Ford]

I agree with most of what you're saying, I just disagree on for your forcasts on power ratings. The gallium arsenide example was just to point out that more than economies of scale accounts for the difference in pricing (ie: if the best silicon and GA cells could be massed produced to drop pricing significantly, they very well could be cheaper per watt because they are so much more efficient than the lowest stuff). Come to think of it know, my original assertion that solar cells would't pay over the life of a car might be wrong since that was assuming that they are a substitue for purchased electricitical power rather than gasoline.

 

I also think this discussion is reaching a point of getting lost in translation over the internet.

Edited July 11, 2008 by V8 Ford

[old_fairmont_wagon]

I'm not really challenging your logic, there's a lot that goes into the production of panels that requires high quality control and gets quite expensive. I just think that there is a lot more that can be achieved there then what is being done now.

[range]

Toyota is putting solar panels on the roof of the Prius not to improve it's efficiency, but as a public relations coup.......Take that, American Gas Guzzling Inc.!!!

 

you are correct, they are actually a "symbolic gesture" and will not be able to completely power the A/C system as reported.

 

 

The panels will be supplied by Kyocera and would be able to power part of the air-conditioning as a "symbolic gesture" as it's "very difficult to power much more than that with solar energy."

 

On a side not.....the Mazda 929 offered solar panels in the sunroof to power a fan that extracted hot air from the vehicle........in 1993.

Edited July 14, 2008 by range

[mettech]

you are correct, they are actually a "symbolic gesture" and will not be able to completely power the A/C system as reported.

 

 

The panels will be supplied by Kyocera and would be able to power part of the air-conditioning as a "symbolic gesture" as it's "very difficult to power much more than that with solar energy."

 

On a side not.....the Mazda 929 offered solar panels in the sunroof to power a fan that extracted hot air from the vehicle........in 1993.

 

Would the solar cells also trickle charge the batteries. That would help to reduce the plug-in energy requirements.

[range]

Would the solar cells also trickle charge the batteries. That would help to reduce the plug-in energy requirements.

 

no

[mettech]

The one I have on my 5th wheel RV does... Why not on a car?

[dunebuster]

Solar roof panels produce Watts, charging hybrid or Electric Vehicle batteries requires Kilo-Watts.

(that's a thousandfold increase in power requirement for the financial or personnel types or reporters)

 

The only use for a solar roof panel is to run a fan to suck the heat from the passenger cabin.

 

The only other beneficiary of a roof panel is the insurance repair techs after a hailstorm...