EPA sets rules for lawn, boat engines

[Hemiman]

AFAIK, old 4-strokes pollute, but nothing like the 2-strokes, where 1 lawnmower pollutes more than hundreds of cars, maybe more, considering that with current emissions specs, recent cars are so good for hydrocarbon emissions.

 

 

Ding! That comparison was against old two strokes. As was the statement about 25% of fuel being expelled out the exhuast, unburnt. The old flathead mower engines, while dirty, come nowhere near this figure. The modern OHV's are very clean. It's very easy to tune an engine for clean/lean burn, when a steady 3600 rpms is it's duty cycle, (even with a carb).

Edited September 9, 2008 by Hemiman

[Imawhosure]

Don't be so rough on SAVETHEPLANET. He knows as everyone else does that Mcain/Sarah are going to win the Whitehouse. Originally, it made no difference to him as Mcain had agreed to do enviro Nazi things. But then along came Sarah, lololol!!!!!\\

 

He knows if they are elected, Sarah will just open her blouse, and then all Mcain will want to do is............DRILL, DRILL, DRILL!!!!! Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe!!!!!

[Pioneer]

He knows as everyone else does that Mcain/Sarah are going to win the Whitehouse. !!!!!

 

Whitehouse Ohio?

 

http://www.whitehouseoh.com/

[RangerM]

Maybe where you live in Raleigh, NC. Around here, in the Detroit area, as far up to our state capital in Lansing, and up to Flint/Saginaw, and even in Grand Rapids, MI, we have "ozone action days", where if the ozone levels at ground level are high enough, they suggest that you don't mow your lawn (or even refuel your car, except early in the morning and late at night). I have friends in Chicago and Cleveland that have commented on the same thing, occasionally. Personally, I get so annoyed with it, that I go out and mow anyway, but I can't deny that gas powered yard equipment doesn't pollute, because I know it does. I am especially glad that I just replaced my mower - I'm going to baby the sonofabitch, because I am very concerned about the heat of a catalytic converter, even a small one.

 

We have those ozone-alert days here, but it never lasts, and there is certainly no reduction in drivers or power equipment usage. I'm just glad I can wash my car again (I have a well), and can give the finger to the local government when they have "mandatory water restrictions" that never seem to go away, even when the reservior is above "full".

 

Just keep the oil changed and the air filter clean. I have a 14-year old Toro that still starts on the first pull. I don't doubt that it "pollutes" (ie. it has an exhaust), but I only use it for about 30 minutes every week. My newer Snapper is about as state of the art as you can get (engine-wise), but I still only use it for a couple of hours a week. I drive my 15-yo truck more, but I keep it tune, and the last time it had a tailpipe test (2006) it would have passed the must up-to-date standards at the time.

[Trimdingman]

When people are going to retreat into their respective ideological corners then middle ground is never attainable.

 

No one is advocating (seriously) that we pollute at will, but many like me understand that with anything, there can be a downside.

 

With lawnmowers/boats, it's a simple question of degree. While they may pollute (metaphorically) a quarter's worth, and a car a penny, there are a WHOLE LOT more pennies than quarters.

 

The pollution created by mowers/boats is minor, and this 'solution' is a sledgehammer solution to a thumbtack problem.

 

 

I agree 100%. I may use a gallon of gas cutting my small lawn during the summer season. This is one of the worst plans that I have ever heard of. Maybe they are testing us to see how dumb we are; like the Publisher Clearing House contest. Lists of names of believers are sold to huxters. Government is a plague. We should only vote for candidates who promise to enact no new laws, and to get rid of as many laws as they can. There is way too much law now. We are practically Communists.

[matthewq4b]

Catalytic Converters on Small engines is nothing new and they have been in use for years. So not sure what all the fuss is.

 

All gasoline powered concrete finishing tools have had cats on them for years. Has it added significant cost to the equipment ? Not at all. All things being said I would be surprised if it has added 25 bucks to the cost of this equipment.

 

Most modern Small 4 stroke engines are pretty damn clean as it is and out boards are slowly moving away from the 2 stroke as well. The addition of the cat is no big deal. Even in the out boards, As it stands now the exhaust is water cooled in all but the smallest of out boards. So the heat out put of the cat is a non issue. And in the small engines the cats are way way over sized being about the size of a small soup can for a 24 hp engine. So they actually outlast the service life of the engine.

 

Funny thing is we heard some of the same arguments in the early seventies about the cats on vehicles, then it was justified .

This is not a big deal now nor will it add big cost long term now, unlike then when it was emerging tech..

 

Short term we may pay a small premium but not in the long term. Most of these small engines are now built in china any way. And the mark ups on this stuff is astounding. They could easily absorb the additional cost of the cat and hardly effect the bottom line.

 

It was inevitable that the EPA would force the clean up of small engines. No one can really be surprised at this.

 

The technology and the equipment exists and is already in use. So there are no technical hurdles to over come. It is just a matter of adoption and implementation.

 

This is not the major issue some are making it out to be.

 

 

 

Matthew

[RaZor]

Great post Mathew

[RangerM]

Catalytic Converters on Small engines is nothing new and they have been in use for years. So not sure what all the fuss is.

 

All gasoline powered concrete finishing tools have had cats on them for years. Has it added significant cost to the equipment ? Not at all. All things being said I would be surprised if it has added 25 bucks to the cost of this equipment.

 

Most modern Small 4 stroke engines are pretty damn clean as it is and out boards are slowly moving away from the 2 stroke as well. The addition of the cat is no big deal. Even in the out boards, As it stands now the exhaust is water cooled in all but the smallest of out boards. So the heat out put of the cat is a non issue. And in the small engines the cats are way way over sized being about the size of a small soup can for a 24 hp engine. So they actually outlast the service life of the engine.

 

Funny thing is we heard some of the same arguments in the early seventies about the cats on vehicles, then it was justified .

This is not a big deal now nor will it add big cost long term now, unlike then when it was emerging tech..

 

Short term we may pay a small premium but not in the long term. Most of these small engines are now built in china any way. And the mark ups on this stuff is astounding. They could easily absorb the additional cost of the cat and hardly effect the bottom line.

 

It was inevitable that the EPA would force the clean up of small engines. No one can really be surprised at this.

 

The technology and the equipment exists and is already in use. So there are no technical hurdles to over come. It is just a matter of adoption and implementation.

 

This is not the major issue some are making it out to be.

 

Matthew

 

Given that the regulations imposed are very similar (same?) to those from California, and many manufacturers build for 50 States, you are probably correct in the minimal costs of manufacture.

 

However, if cat converters do become standard, it should be interesting to see how many are stolen for the metals. If people will take them from under a car, I can see how a lawnmower or boat would be so much easier. Especially since many mowers aren't secured at night, or even in the daytime (landscaping company trailers); boats less so.

 

Maybe the cost of securing these mobile treasure chests was factored in.

[RaZor]

Well it is going to be up to the states to pass legislation to thwart this kind of theft. . . like Florida recently did. Now when you take ANY metals to a recycler, they must obtain positive identification from the seller BEFORE they can purchase the metal. That applies to copper, or any metals - not just precious metals (like from cats).

 

It had become such a big problem that legislation was enacted quickly because thieves were hauling off A/C compressors, stripping copper pipe out of homes that were not occupied (even snow-bird homes) or going through foreclosure, or whatever. It was the only way that it could controlled. Once they can't sell the stuff. . . then the thefts dropped off dramatically.

[Hemiman]

Most modern Small 4 stroke engines are pretty damn clean as it is and out boards are slowly moving away from the 2 stroke as well.

 

 

Matthew

 

 

Believe it or not, modern two strokes can run as clean as their four stroke counterparts. By using direct injection timed after the ex port is closed, the problem with unburnt ex escaping is a thing of the past. Mercury Marine and Bombardier have both adopted different technologies to achieve this goal.

 

Side benefit: No more fouled plugs!

[Hemiman]

Funny thing is we heard some of the same arguments in the early seventies about the cats on vehicles, then it was justified .

This is not a big deal now nor will it add big cost long term now, unlike then when it was emerging tech..

 

 

 

Matthew

 

 

Good post. I was thinking just this, in the thread about diesels. After treatments will become cost effective for diesels just as they have for gassers.

[RJ Kanary]

One of the few times in my life that I've been ahead of the curve. I've been mowing my one third of an acre, mostly steep hillsides, with my 1972 General Electric E-20 Elec-Trak®. Yep, been mowing grass, pushing snow, and towing disabled vehicles into my place of employment for the past 25 years,all with electricity.

 

It's great to be able to hear my neighbors a quarter of a mile away out tending to their lawns while I'm quietly mowing mine, with only the scent of fresh cut grass to enjoy. <G>

 

RJ

[stephenhawkings]