WPWoodJr Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I think you'll enjoy my impressions of the new 2010 Prius as compared to my FFH. Edited June 28, 2009 by WPWoodJr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I think you'll enjoy my impressions of the new 2010 Prius as compared to my FFH. Good review, but I'll say that in any case, the Fusion Hybrid and the Prius, while they obviously do compete with each other, are not direct competitors. The Fusion doesn't get the same mileage as the Prius, but is a nicer car -- but will also cost more. What the Fusion does do is blow its direct Toyota competitor (the Camry Hybrid) away. Whereas there are trade-offs between the Fusion and the Prius, there is no real trade-off with regard to the Camry Hybrid; the Fusion (and I will admit I'm still crossing my fingers, but I've just passed 7,000 miles and am not seeing any signs of trouble) does everything that I can think of that matters better or the same as the Camry Hybrid. I noticed that in your review you were still hopeful of getting the $3,400 credit. I've talked to my accountant and a tax attorney friend; both believe that there is no real way for me (ordered in December, received the car early April) to get $3,400. What I'm going to ask my accountant to do next year is to calculate the taxes based on $1,700, and send a letter to the IRS asking them for $1,700 more but not expecting to get it. Now, if you are actually a bit concerned about whether you'd like the Fusion Hybrid, and you're already willing to take the tradeoff of not-as-good mileage vs. nicer car, I think the backup choices that you should be looking at are the Camry Hybrid and the Nissan Altima Hybrid (assuming that you're on the west coast or the northeast). (A friend at my office is interested in the Fusion Hybrid; I heartily recommended it to her but did tell her to look at the Altima as an alternative.) Edited June 28, 2009 by nelsonlu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPWoodJr Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 Good review, but I'll say that in any case, the Fusion Hybrid and the Prius, while they obviously do compete with each other, are not direct competitors. The Fusion doesn't get the same mileage as the Prius, but is a nicer car -- but will also cost more. What the Fusion does do is blow its direct Toyota competitor (the Camry Hybrid) away. Whereas there are trade-offs between the Fusion and the Prius, there is no real trade-off with regard to the Camry Hybrid; the Fusion (and I will admit I'm still crossing my fingers, but I've just passed 7,000 miles and am not seeing any signs of trouble) does everything that I can think of that matters better or the same as the Camry Hybrid. I noticed that in your review you were still hopeful of getting the $3,400 credit. I've talked to my accountant and a tax attorney friend; both believe that there is no real way for me (ordered in December, received the car early April) to get $3,400. What I'm going to ask my accountant to do next year is to calculate the taxes based on $1,700, and send a letter to the IRS asking them for $1,700 more but not expecting to get it. Now, if you are actually a bit concerned about whether you'd like the Fusion Hybrid, and you're already willing to take the tradeoff of not-as-good mileage vs. nicer car, I think the backup choices that you should be looking at are the Camry Hybrid and the Nissan Altima Hybrid (assuming that you're on the west coast or the northeast). (A friend at my office is interested in the Fusion Hybrid; I heartily recommended it to her but did tell her to look at the Altima as an alternative.) I ordered my FFH on March 31. Everything I've read says that is sufficient to qualify for the $3400 credit in whatever tax year you take delivery. Additionally, the credit is not subject to AMT thanks to the stimulus bill passed in February. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPWoodJr Posted June 28, 2009 Author Share Posted June 28, 2009 I think you'll enjoy my impressions of the new 2010 Prius as compared to my FFH. Sorry, I broke the link this morning - its fixed now: http://ffh.squarespace.com/blog/2009/6/27/...ion-hybrid.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsonlu Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I ordered my FFH on March 31. Everything I've read says that is sufficient to qualify for the $3400 credit in whatever tax year you take delivery. Additionally, the credit is not subject to AMT thanks to the stimulus bill passed in February. The problem (as my tax attorney friend pointed out) is that the IRS regulations require that the vehicle be "put into service." If it hadn't arrived, it wasn't really put into service. (The argument to the contrary would be that it must have been driven in Hermosillo for final testing, and therefore arguably "put into service.") Again, I'd actually advise caution on this; you don't want a nasty dispute with the IRS over $1,700. You can, as I suggest, file for $1,700 and write a letter requesting an additional $1,700. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirak Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) What a great thread. I have also compared the 2010 Prius to the 2010 FFH, and I definitely agree with most of the points. I was initially sold on the new Prius, and was spending a lot of time on PriusChat. Then I went and actually saw a Prius and compared it to a FFH. Here are my observations: First, it's absolutely true that the FFH and Prius are not in the same class. Technically, that would be the Camry Hybrid, but the FFH blows the Camry Hybrid out of the water. The FFH is cheaper, gets better MPG, and has better features overall. The top-end Prius "V" (the one with with 17" wheels) and the FFH are a worthy comparison because they are similar in price (if the FFH's $1700k tax credit is taken into account). Exterior: The new Prius certainly looks a little more muscular and less bubble-shaped than the old generation, but I still wouldn't say it's a beautiful car. It's mostly the stubby little front-end of the Prius, viewed head-on, which looks really ugly to me. That, and Toyota has expanded the size of it's logo to about 6" across. The Prius looks a bit smaller and uglier in person than as seen in the promotional photos, kind of like a celebrity. The FFH, on the other hand, is a very attractive car. The chrome grill is cool, and rear taillights, of all things, really popped out at me. Both Prius and the FFH offer a "pearl white" luxury finish (for more money). The 17" wheels are different, but I think equally attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but for me... FFH wins. Interior: The Prius's new eco-friendly plastics on the dash and console felt brittle and cheap. There are a lot of weird buttons in this car, and they're not located in very intuitive places. Rear-visability is very limited by the hatchback design. On the plus-side, the Prius is surprisingly roomy for what appears to be such a small car from the outside. Even with ample front seat leg room, the leg room in back was very comfortable (I'm 6'1"). Part of this comes from Toyota carving out the backs of the front seats, but I also think they've been able to push the rear seats further back because of the hatchback design. The FFH's dash and console felt like much higher quality. Also, the console has a more conventional design. Rear visibility was good. The FFH felt a bit more roomy than the Prius from side to side, but not front to back. Actually, the Prius has a bit morerear leg room than the FFH. Still... FFH wins. Cargo: FFH has a decent trunk, but it can't match the cargo versatility of the Prius. That's just the benefit of the hatchback design, which Toyota has utilized masterfully. No question... Prius wins. Instrument Panel: Prius has this new "Multi-Function Display," which holds all the guages and other info. It's been moved from behind the wheel to the high center of the dash. This puts it more within the line of sight while driving, but it also puts it further away, and display looks small, cluttered, and monochrome. The FFH's colorful, customizable, multi-LCD instrument panel is night-and-day superior. FFH wins. Features: Prius has push-button start, key-fob entry, LED headlamps, and "Econ" and "Power" modes to help squeeze out extra MPGs or HPs. FFH has a sunroof (can't get that unless you buy a $3500 package on the Prius, and can't get it at all on the model V), backup cam (can't get that on the Prius without paying at least $1k for Nav), Microsoft SYNC (waaay better than Toyota's technology), customizable ambient lighting (kinda cheesy, but still cool), and automatic headlights (yes, the Prius actually doesn't have this). I dearly wish the FFH had some of the Prius's features, but overall... FFH wins. Mileage: The Prius gets about 10mpg better than the FFH. Depending on how important this is, it could be the deciding difference between the two cars. I love hybrid technology. I used to think MPG was my top priority. Then I sat in both cars. I though "I've got to be happy in this car for the next 10 years." You know what? I can have just as much fun getting 40 MPG as I can getting 50 MPG. Actually, I think I can have more fun hyper-miling in the FFH because the instrument panel is so much cooler. Still, on an objective basis, there's no question that... Prius wins. Driving: I'm not a professional driver. Honestly, I thought the cars handled about the same. (Again, this is the "touring" Prius with the 17" wheels - not the 15" wheels which have been criticized). However, I did notice that the FFH had a quieter ride. On that basis... FFH wins. Safety: 5-star crash tests are all well and good (honestly, I don't know how either rates, but assume they both do well). At the end of the day, the Fusion is a bigger, heavier car. If I had to make a choice between wrecking with my family in a Prius or FFH, there's no question... FFH wins. Reliability: The big question mark. Both the Prius and FFH are new models, though the Prius has a proven track record in the previous model. Toyota has an excellent reputation. I'd say Ford has a good, and improving reputation. Ford is making great strides, but Toyota is still the safer bet. Prius wins. Intangibles: This does not impact my decision making - it's just icing on the cake given the decision I've made. The FFH may be manufactured in Mexico, but Ford is still an American company - and I'm proud to support a company that looks like it's got its, ahem, "Stuff" together. That, and Prius owners are generally very annoying people. It's a stereotype, and as with all stereotypes, there are exceptions, but stereotypes also exist for a reason. FFH wins. Overall, FFH wins in a landslide. Unless MPG, cargo capacity, or "owning a Prius" are so important that you're prepared to sacrifice a lot of interior quality and features, the FFH is the obvious choice (again assuming cost is about the same between a Prius V a more base FFH). Edited June 29, 2009 by mirak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ackbar Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Reliability: The big question mark. Both the Prius and FFH are new models, though the Prius has a proven track record in the previous model. Toyota has an excellent reputation. I'd say Ford has a good, and improving reputation. Ford is making great strides, but Toyota is still the safer bet. Prius wins. I agree with most of your points. However, I feel it's premature to declare the Prius a winner in terms of reliability. The Ford Fusion has been a perennial top pick for reliability since it's introduction, and there's no indication that the hybrid version is any different. We'll have a better idea following a few years of service, but based on my experience with my FFH it looks very promising and I would at a minimum declare the two vehicles a tie in terms of reliability until more data is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The problem (as my tax attorney friend pointed out) is that the IRS regulations require that the vehicle be "put into service." If it hadn't arrived, it wasn't really put into service. (The argument to the contrary would be that it must have been driven in Hermosillo for final testing, and therefore arguably "put into service.") Again, I'd actually advise caution on this; you don't want a nasty dispute with the IRS over $1,700. You can, as I suggest, file for $1,700 and write a letter requesting an additional $1,700. Your attorney friend can't read. The IRS rules (and examples) say that you qualify for the credit based on when the vehicle was "purchased". When the vehicle was "put into service" determines when you can claim the credit (which year). The examples in the IRS document shows purchasing a vehicle one month but not taking delivery (putting it into service) until 3 months later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WPWoodJr Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 The problem (as my tax attorney friend pointed out) is that the IRS regulations require that the vehicle be "put into service." If it hadn't arrived, it wasn't really put into service. (The argument to the contrary would be that it must have been driven in Hermosillo for final testing, and therefore arguably "put into service.") Again, I'd actually advise caution on this; you don't want a nasty dispute with the IRS over $1,700. You can, as I suggest, file for $1,700 and write a letter requesting an additional $1,700. I have a document from Ford that says the vehicle must be ordered by Mar 31, not put in service. Where did you see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akirby Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have a document from Ford that says the vehicle must be ordered by Mar 31, not put in service. Where did you see that? You can't claim the tax credit until you put the vehicle in service (drive it off the lot). That's the confusion. If you take delivery in 2009 then you can claim the credit (if you qualify) on your 2009 return filed in early 2010. If you don't take delivery until January 2010 then you have to wait another year to claim it on your 2010 return filed in early 2011. Funny thing about attorneys - on average, they're wrong half the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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