Competition for GM's GoYellow Campaign

[FordBlooded]

I was just reading the latest news about Ford sales dropping slightly, including the Mustang, and it gave me an idea:

 

How about an optional E-85 FFV Mustang GT? Actually, how about both a 4.0L FFV V6 Mustang for those on a budget and a 4.6L FFV V8 in the Mustang GT for the muscle car enthusiasts? I don't know how well E85 would work in a muscle car, but it seems to do fine in the F150, and it did well in the Taurus. Plus it would be a cheap, easy, NEW option for the 2007/08 model year and good competition for GM's new "Go Yellow" campaign. More performance, fun, and environmental appeal for right now. No, I haven't done a market study on E85--it's just an idea. What do you think?

 

Anyway, if anyone in Ford V-Engine Engineering is looking to create an even stronger emotional appeal to keep Mustang sales up this summer with today's rising gas prices, please pass this idea along. This is a big "IF", but I keep driving by two local Ford dealers every single day and their new 2006 Mustangs are not moving. Neither are their Five Hundreds. This idea could help kick-start some sales when regular unleaded hits $3.50+/gallon. Just remember where you got the idea---that is if someone else at POEE hasn't already considered it. If it works, then I'll take my FFV V8 Premium GT in Vista Blue with a 5-speed manual and charcoal leather, please. (j/k)

 

All kidding aside, I like the new line-up (Fusion, Milan, Edge, Aviator, Escape, Mustang, etc.) and would like to see Ford gain market share, not lose it. These are very good vehicles. Would E85 work in the new 3.5L V6? How about a direct injected, 3.5L E85 FFV V6 Edge, Five Hundred, or Fusion---or Mustang? Add AWD in some of those vehicles in the Snow Belt states and you've got a win-win seller!

 

To the Anti-E85 bandwagon - I already know that E85 is less efficient, thanks. I'm proposing an idea to help diversify America's Fuel Portfolio, potentially reducing our dependency and costs to defend foreign oil by 10-25%.

[Guest Sixcav]

It's not a bad idea FordBlooded. Yes you can expect a corus of responses about how E85 will not run as well and the mileage will be worse because of less BTU's per gallon and all that jazz. But in point of fact, it's a pretty good idea. If we had a market with direct competition for gasoline, that being E85, than it stands to reason the prices of both will stay down as they compete for market share. Incidently I saw on one of these threads somewhere a Mustang that ford built back in 97 that could also run on ethanol and according to that post it made a lot more horsepower on the ethanol than it did on gasoline. So who knows.

[sparks will fly]

With all the tech we have all of Ford's products should be E-85 compatible, it should be that hard should it?

[dr511scj]

This idea could help kick-start some sales when regular unleaded hits $3.50+/gallon. Just remember where you got the idea---that is if someone else at POEE hasn't already considered it.

 

Oh they've "considered" it . . .

 

http://www.eere.energy.gov/cleancities/ccn.../AFNewsV2-1.pdf (see page 7) [The U.S. Department of Energy erroneously suggested FoMoCo would sell a limited number of supercharged FFV Mustangs as early as MY 1999, after the Super Stallion's sucessful auto show circuit debut]

 

http://www.muscularmustangs.com/database2/superstallion.php

("Powered by a 5.4L V-8 boosted by a Garrett supercharger, the [super Stallion Concept] car made 545hp on regular 93-octane gasoline. But, by using the car's technology you could make up to 590hp off of the E85 Ethanol fuel that the car was designed to run on.")

 

Thus, a "better idea" . . . uh . . . "Bold Move" would be to offer FFV Mustangs which actually take full advantage of E85's higher resistance to detonation (See Super Stallion Concept, supra).

 

If Ford won't go that far, at least they could offer a HD-option FFV Mustang GT with the old '03 Cobra's forged pistons, forged crank and forged Manley rods, so that enterprising customers could buy a supercharger/turbocharger-ready, E85-capable Pony car without breaking the bank (i.e. no massive $15,000+ ADM as on the rare GT500s; no need to spend $4,000+ to dump the 3V 4.6 GT's weak hypereutectic pistons and spindly PM rods before cranking up the boost)

 

What do you want to bet the "Way Forward" is more excuses, more cheap tape stripes, more nostalgic trim options, and more small engines, instead? (Welcome back to the 1970s, Mustangers!)

[jaydez]

Doing that just wouldnt be the Ford way.... you know, giving the customer exactly what they want... as long as what they want is what Ford tells then they have to have. Its been that way since the begining. YOu can have the Model-t in any color you want, as long as it's black.

 

I would not count on having a FFV mustang with forged internals. I could wish to see one without the forged internals, but that I still doubt.

 

E-85 is still too rare outside of the mid-west. I live in CT and the nearest place i can get E-85 for my B-3000 is almost 300 miles away.

[dr511scj]

True enough. I don't count on anything but excuses and disappointments from Ford anymore.

 

But my point is that if the OEMs promote E85 as not just an environmentally-friendly domestic alternative, but also as a high performance fuel that yields better results than premium unleaded "street" gasoline, a highly-motivated niche market will demand increased supply. This will create trickle-down availability benefitting non-high performance flex-fuel applications.

 

GM created similar upmarket demand for "performance gasoline" when it promoted the Kettering high-compression OHV V8s over fifty years ago. The GM OHVs required leaded "Ethyl" gasoline, which was not widely available until there was sufficient market demand for it.

 

While the non-high performance market probably doesn't care a whit about E85, unless the pump price is substantially less than regular gasoline, the influential, opinion-leading high performance/sportsman racing niche will adopt E85 if it produces tangible non-economic and non-environmental advantages at a reasonable cost.

 

To further bootstrap initial demand, Ford would need to "influence" various racing organizations within its general orbit to permit E85 in "gasoline" classes typically populated by late model Mustangs.

[DaBird]

Since a huge amount of testing has already been done on this, I will just post one link to how Hot Rodders have already mastered E85.

 

http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0

 

Ford can easily see that it is Great for the performance guys also.

 

I am converting my 393 this Summer.

[dr511scj]

Since a huge amount of testing has already been done on this, I will just post one link to how Hot Rodders have already mastered E85.

 

http://www.turbomustangs.com/smf/index.php?topic=47094.0

 

Ford can easily see that it is Great for the performance guys also.

 

I am converting my 393 this Summer.

 

Great link. Hopefully your project of putting your 393 on "White Lightning" is will be a huge success. (Just don't tell the "know-it-alls" at Ford (you know who I'm talking about . . . ) that you're "tampering" with the product.

[DaBird]

Great link. Hopefully your project of putting your 393 on "White Lightning" is will be a huge success. (Just don't tell the "know-it-alls" at Ford (you know who I'm talking about . . . ) that you're "tampering" with the product.

 

 

I think it is a little too late for that. Car had a 5 page feature story in Muscle Mustang and Fast Fords, in thJune 2006 issue. Here is a peak.

 

 

Full article.

http://members.tccoa.com/392bird/mm&ff.htm

 

 

It is a FUN Car now.