Gravedigger Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Maybe 50 years ago, the Steelworkers' initiative with Mondragon http://www.usw.org/media_center/releases_advisories?id=0234 might have been undertaken by the UAW. Not now with corporatists like Gettelfinger/King intent on selling the farm piece by piece. What UAW members really need today is conversation on the shop floors about what the USW has started. It is the answer for most of us but most likely will receive no publicity from the UAW's bake salers. Please do your best to pass the word on this enormous breakthrough and turnaround for Solidarity throughout your workplace. If there is no shop floor newsletter in your plant why not start one with the USW/Mondragon story featured? Your could also suggest that the locals send delegates to meet at other plants in a democratic environment to discuss what can be done to bring our locals together to fight for a better future for our kids. We could form these Solidarity Councils on our own by simply raising the idea on the shopfloor and getting the locals behind it. We really need to break out of the box the UAW has us in and talk about winning good jobs for all. I have a newsletter called Common Sense which will be covering the USW/Mondragon and other hopeful rank and file news in the upcoming issue. If you'd like a copy email me at: tlaney1776@gmail.com A shop floor newsletter can be a single page of Solidarity info not generally published by the UAW or the Locals but of great and vital interest to most members. If I can be of any help let me know. Tom Laney Ford Retiree Colfax, Wisconsin 715-962-4365 tlaney1776@gmail.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony James Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Maybe 50 years ago, the Steelworkers' initiative with Mondragon http://www.usw.org/media_center/releases_advisories?id=0234 might have been undertaken by the UAW. Not now with corporatists like Gettelfinger/King intent on selling the farm piece by piece. What UAW members really need today is conversation on the shop floors about what the USW has started. It is the answer for most of us but most likely will receive no publicity from the UAW's bake salers. Please do your best to pass the word on this enormous breakthrough and turnaround for Solidarity throughout your workplace. If there is no shop floor newsletter in your plant why not start one with the USW/Mondragon story featured? Your could also suggest that the locals send delegates to meet at other plants in a democratic environment to discuss what can be done to bring our locals together to fight for a better future for our kids. We could form these Solidarity Councils on our own by simply raising the idea on the shopfloor and getting the locals behind it. We really need to break out of the box the UAW has us in and talk about winning good jobs for all. I have a newsletter called Common Sense which will be covering the USW/Mondragon and other hopeful rank and file news in the upcoming issue. If you'd like a copy email me at: tlaney1776@gmail.com A shop floor newsletter can be a single page of Solidarity info not generally published by the UAW or the Locals but of great and vital interest to most members. If I can be of any help let me know. Tom Laney Ford Retiree Colfax, Wisconsin 715-962-4365 tlaney1776@gmail.com Tom Lany is a tireless, dedicated social unionist and former Ford worker at Twin Cities. I encourage everyone to drop Tom an email and ask to be placed on his mailing list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Maybe 50 years ago, the Steelworkers' initiative with Mondragon http://www.usw.org/media_center/releases_advisories?id=0234 might have been undertaken by the UAW. Not now with corporatists like Gettelfinger/King intent on selling the farm piece by piece. What UAW members really need today is conversation on the shop floors about what the USW has started. It is the answer for most of us but most likely will receive no publicity from the UAW's bake salers. Please do your best to pass the word on this enormous breakthrough and turnaround for Solidarity throughout your workplace. If there is no shop floor newsletter in your plant why not start one with the USW/Mondragon story featured? Your could also suggest that the locals send delegates to meet at other plants in a democratic environment to discuss what can be done to bring our locals together to fight for a better future for our kids. We could form these Solidarity Councils on our own by simply raising the idea on the shopfloor and getting the locals behind it. We really need to break out of the box the UAW has us in and talk about winning good jobs for all. I have a newsletter called Common Sense which will be covering the USW/Mondragon and other hopeful rank and file news in the upcoming issue. If you'd like a copy email me at: tlaney1776@gmail.com A shop floor newsletter can be a single page of Solidarity info not generally published by the UAW or the Locals but of great and vital interest to most members. If I can be of any help let me know. Tom Laney Ford Retiree Colfax, Wisconsin 715-962-4365 tlaney1776@gmail.com How would that create solidairity? What should have created solidairity was our leaders standing strong and stressing to the leadership at the Coucil meeting that they were not going to take it back to us members in the plant and sell any agreement! There is no reason why they should have came back to our plant not in support, that is a ball less leader. Stand up in front of your peers and told them that you were not in support. I heard only 1 person at the meeting voted no. That shows leadership. This should have been argued out there and voted down, if there was no support. After the vote was taken, everyone should have left the council meeting on the same page. This is how you show solidairity amongst the ranks! We elect leaders to lead and voice the opinion of us the workers. If there was no support for any modification then we should have never seen it. I say every leader that came back not in support, except for Gary (he says no to everything), they need to be replaced because they are ball less and did not speak and vote against the modification. Some newsletter isn't going to make solidairity. The Chairperson/President puts out a newsletter once a month, Solidairity magazine or check out the UAW web site http://www.UAW.ORG if you want information. How about get involved with an organizing campaign or help a local candidate in office if you have extra time! If you have an article you want in the Solidairity magazine there a link you can send it too in the magazine. Also, if there is info you want to put in your local paper, I am sure you can submit it to your chair/president for consideration. We don't need more propaganda, we need our leaders to be leaders and show solidairity. We are already in the greatest Labor Movement in the world with the UAW! We just need our leaders to lead and not coward in from of their peers! Solidairity is what makes us strong, not seperation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
400member Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 How would that create solidairity? What should have created solidairity was our leaders standing strong and stressing to the leadership at the Coucil meeting that they were not going to take it back to us members in the plant and sell any agreement! There is no reason why they should have came back to our plant not in support, that is a ball less leader. Stand up in front of your peers and told them that you were not in support. I heard only 1 person at the meeting voted no. That shows leadership. This should have been argued out there and voted down, if there was no support. After the vote was taken, everyone should have left the council meeting on the same page. This is how you show solidairity amongst the ranks! We elect leaders to lead and voice the opinion of us the workers. If there was no support for any modification then we should have never seen it. I say every leader that came back not in support, except for Gary (he says no to everything), they need to be replaced because they are ball less and did not speak and vote against the modification. Some newsletter isn't going to make solidairity. The Chairperson/President puts out a newsletter once a month, Solidairity magazine or check out the UAW web site http://www.UAW.ORG if you want information. How about get involved with an organizing campaign or help a local candidate in office if you have extra time! If you have an article you want in the Solidairity magazine there a link you can send it too in the magazine. Also, if there is info you want to put in your local paper, I am sure you can submit it to your chair/president for consideration. We don't need more propaganda, we need our leaders to be leaders and show solidairity. We are already in the greatest Labor Movement in the world with the UAW! We just need our leaders to lead and not coward in from of their peers! Solidairity is what makes us strong, not seperation! Cap, you need a history lesson. this UAW, whatever the shape or what one believes about its current status, was started with leafletting, small dinner table meetings and the idea!! A small group of tireless people developed this Union using informational flyers. You use of the term "propaganda" clearly shows a lack of basic unionism 101. It also shows your part of the problem, by being so negative about simple information from another source. It is immensly clear that the UaW joining the "corporate strategy" position from Owen Beiber (he said that to my face) is not working on behalf of our membership. The race to the bottom is not the reason for the union's existence, read article 2 and the preamble of your constitution. If you knew the Reuthers or members like Laney you may have lern a little more than what you seem to know. Victor, the last brother was a good friend to any union member who took th time to ask for conversation and was always willing to step into the fray. Change, he said, is needed to insure gfrowth. The current UAW is not looking at change except in members conditioins of work and living. The current UAW through the Adm Caucus has become averse to members in many ways while maintaning a superior position and separation from the members. Being insulated from the membership will not give a proper vision on the effects of decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony James Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 How would that create solidairity? What should have created solidairity was our leaders standing strong and stressing to the leadership at the Coucil meeting that they were not going to take it back to us members in the plant and sell any agreement! There is no reason why they should have came back to our plant not in support, that is a ball less leader. Stand up in front of your peers and told them that you were not in support. I heard only 1 person at the meeting voted no. That shows leadership. This should have been argued out there and voted down, if there was no support. After the vote was taken, everyone should have left the council meeting on the same page. This is how you show solidairity amongst the ranks! We elect leaders to lead and voice the opinion of us the workers. If there was no support for any modification then we should have never seen it. I say every leader that came back not in support, except for Gary (he says no to everything), they need to be replaced because they are ball less and did not speak and vote against the modification. Some newsletter isn't going to make solidairity. The Chairperson/President puts out a newsletter once a month, Solidairity magazine or check out the UAW web site http://www.UAW.ORG if you want information. How about get involved with an organizing campaign or help a local candidate in office if you have extra time! If you have an article you want in the Solidairity magazine there a link you can send it too in the magazine. Also, if there is info you want to put in your local paper, I am sure you can submit it to your chair/president for consideration. We don't need more propaganda, we need our leaders to be leaders and show solidairity. We are already in the greatest Labor Movement in the world with the UAW! We just need our leaders to lead and not coward in from of their peers! Solidairity is what makes us strong, not seperation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hi Tom! It's nice to see you posting on here! How have you been? I heard that you had a conversation with a mutual friend the other day! lol Mary Springowski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony James Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 How would that create solidairity? What should have created solidairity was our leaders standing strong and stressing to the leadership at the Coucil meeting that they were not going to take it back to us members in the plant and sell any agreement! There is no reason why they should have came back to our plant not in support, that is a ball less leader. Stand up in front of your peers and told them that you were not in support. I heard only 1 person at the meeting voted no. That shows leadership. This should have been argued out there and voted down, if there was no support. After the vote was taken, everyone should have left the council meeting on the same page. This is how you show solidairity amongst the ranks! We elect leaders to lead and voice the opinion of us the workers. If there was no support for any modification then we should have never seen it. I say every leader that came back not in support, except for Gary (he says no to everything), they need to be replaced because they are ball less and did not speak and vote against the modification. Some newsletter isn't going to make solidairity. The Chairperson/President puts out a newsletter once a month, Solidairity magazine or check out the UAW web site http://www.UAW.ORG if you want information. How about get involved with an organizing campaign or help a local candidate in office if you have extra time! If you have an article you want in the Solidairity magazine there a link you can send it too in the magazine. Also, if there is info you want to put in your local paper, I am sure you can submit it to your chair/president for consideration. We don't need more propaganda, we need our leaders to be leaders and show solidairity. We are already in the greatest Labor Movement in the world with the UAW! We just need our leaders to lead and not coward in from of their peers! Solidairity is what makes us strong, not seperation! Well, yes, Captain, from a broader view a newspaper in and of itself is not enough. It is just a tool. When you have the two most powerful aspects of the workplace-the uaw and company-telling us daily that we have to work together, as if the interests of the corporation and the interests of the workers are the same, you are going to have resistance when it is needed during times like the recent reopener. Minds must be changed and it is not done overnight or with just a newletter. It is done by direct action. That includes direct action against a union leadership that is completely out of touch with the shop floor. If you are depending on Solidarity Magazine for your information you are misguided. That rag is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the UAW's entrenched bureaucracy. If you critisize UAW policy in an article you want published in Solidarity magazine it will not get published. If the UAW is the greatest union in the world, after this latest debacle to take away a worker's right to strike, then pal, our objective to win the fight in the world is over. Nothing in this union will ever change from the top down. It must be done from the bottom up. That starts on the shop floor. Not in the union hall where most of those people are just as bad as the IUAW. Just like King said about the worker's advancement hinges on winning power in American politics, The UAW Administration Caucus applies that to keeping themselves in power as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted November 8, 2009 Author Share Posted November 8, 2009 How would that create solidairity? What should have created solidairity was our leaders standing strong and stressing to the leadership at the Coucil meeting that they were not going to take it back to us members in the plant and sell any agreement! There is no reason why they should have came back to our plant not in support, that is a ball less leader. Stand up in front of your peers and told them that you were not in support. I heard only 1 person at the meeting voted no. That shows leadership. This should have been argued out there and voted down, if there was no support. After the vote was taken, everyone should have left the council meeting on the same page. This is how you show solidairity amongst the ranks! We elect leaders to lead and voice the opinion of us the workers. If there was no support for any modification then we should have never seen it. I say every leader that came back not in support, except for Gary (he says no to everything), they need to be replaced because they are ball less and did not speak and vote against the modification. Some newsletter isn't going to make solidairity. The Chairperson/President puts out a newsletter once a month, Solidairity magazine or check out the UAW web site http://www.UAW.ORG if you want information. How about get involved with an organizing campaign or help a local candidate in office if you have extra time! If you have an article you want in the Solidairity magazine there a link you can send it too in the magazine. Also, if there is info you want to put in your local paper, I am sure you can submit it to your chair/president for consideration. We don't need more propaganda, we need our leaders to be leaders and show solidairity. We are already in the greatest Labor Movement in the world with the UAW! We just need our leaders to lead and not coward in from of their peers! Solidairity is what makes us strong, not seperation! Captain- It is S O L I D A R I T Y ! Your point as to the single NO vote at the Ford Council pretty much makes my point that we need a safe place for local union delegates to speak their minds and act like Solidarity reps. Unfortunately we lack many delegates with the integrity and courage that Gary has. Most deleagtes will tell you (off the floor) that if you stand up to the stupidity and dog-eat-dog corporate lunacy of people like King and Gettelfinger, they will screw the folks you represent. I was told by a local rep a few days before the vote that if this deal went down, the UAW would cut the wages of people making the top wage, IN HALF. So, he feared doing the right thing, the UNION thing, in fighting the $14hr. sin. Trade Unionism is not a difficult thing to understand. Most of us learn Solidarity in our families and neighborhoods long before we go to work. It was the old UAW who took what our folks taught us and built it into a way of life and fought for that way of life to be extended to the old idea of good jobs for all and THE GOOD FIGHT TO GET THERE. What could possibly be wrong with asking ourselves and our locals to organize a safe place for our reps to get together and discuss a common sense society where everyone has a good job and every kid a happy future? 37 million Americans now in poverty and the UAW waves goodbye to our jobs in the interests of corporatism. . Is that a sin? Can that be fixed? Of course it can but the UAW has proven itself to be a big part of this problem. The USW/MCC agrement is showing us the way. Only a fool would ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
400member Posted November 8, 2009 Share Posted November 8, 2009 Captain- It is S O L I D A R I T Y ! Your point as to the single NO vote at the Ford Council pretty much makes my point that we need a safe place for local union delegates to speak their minds and act like Solidarity reps. Unfortunately we lack many delegates with the integrity and courage that Gary has. Most deleagtes will tell you (off the floor) that if you stand up to the stupidity and dog-eat-dog corporate lunacy of people like King and Gettelfinger, they will screw the folks you represent. I was told by a local rep a few days before the vote that if this deal went down, the UAW would cut the wages of people making the top wage, IN HALF. So, he feared doing the right thing, the UNION thing, in fighting the $14hr. sin. Trade Unionism is not a difficult thing to understand. Most of us learn Solidarity in our families and neighborhoods long before we go to work. It was the old UAW who took what our folks taught us and built it into a way of life and fought for that way of life to be extended to the old idea of good jobs for all and THE GOOD FIGHT TO GET THERE. What could possibly be wrong with asking ourselves and our locals to organize a safe place for our reps to get together and discuss a common sense society where everyone has a good job and every kid a happy future? 37 million Americans now in poverty and the UAW waves goodbye to our jobs in the interests of corporatism. . Is that a sin? Can that be fixed? Of course it can but the UAW has proven itself to be a big part of this problem. The USW/MCC agrement is showing us the way. Only a fool would ignore it. The Irish eloquence at its best. Good info Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Captain- It is S O L I D A R I T Y ! Your point as to the single NO vote at the Ford Council pretty much makes my point that we need a safe place for local union delegates to speak their minds and act like Solidarity reps. Unfortunately we lack many delegates with the integrity and courage that Gary has. Most deleagtes will tell you (off the floor) that if you stand up to the stupidity and dog-eat-dog corporate lunacy of people like King and Gettelfinger, they will screw the folks you represent. I was told by a local rep a few days before the vote that if this deal went down, the UAW would cut the wages of people making the top wage, IN HALF. So, he feared doing the right thing, the UNION thing, in fighting the $14hr. sin. Trade Unionism is not a difficult thing to understand. Most of us learn Solidarity in our families and neighborhoods long before we go to work. It was the old UAW who took what our folks taught us and built it into a way of life and fought for that way of life to be extended to the old idea of good jobs for all and THE GOOD FIGHT TO GET THERE. What could possibly be wrong with asking ourselves and our locals to organize a safe place for our reps to get together and discuss a common sense society where everyone has a good job and every kid a happy future? 37 million Americans now in poverty and the UAW waves goodbye to our jobs in the interests of corporatism. . Is that a sin? Can that be fixed? Of course it can but the UAW has proven itself to be a big part of this problem. The USW/MCC agrement is showing us the way. Only a fool would ignore it. first let me say that I never said Gary had integrity, he is a fking tool bag that pushes his no vote at every ratification even when his plant was getting 2B in investment and 2500 members. I was saying he said no at the council meeting and therefore should have kept to his no mentality right or wrong. The rest of them worthless fks need to be replaced if they came home and told everyone to vote no. Wothless ball less leaders. As far as leaflets, we have a means to leaflet....solidairity magazine, Chair/President reports and UAW.org. What you are talking about is a new organization, splitting up the UAW....stupid fking idea. Lets unite in the organization that we have. Not create another fking organization to fullfill some fking retiree dream, in order to tear down the UAW. The Ford council meeting is the place for local leaders to stress their concerns not some dumb fking back room. I would like to know of one time the UAW took action against any membership not supporting the cause? We have a democrating Union which allows our voice to be heard. So you and your soldiers can go and get fked, stay out of the East side! The company loves this shit!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
400member Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 first let me say that I never said Gary had integrity, he is a fking tool bag that pushes his no vote at every ratification even when his plant was getting 2B in investment and 2500 members. I was saying he said no at the council meeting and therefore should have kept to his no mentality right or wrong. The rest of them worthless fks need to be replaced if they came home and told everyone to vote no. Wothless ball less leaders.As far as leaflets, we have a means to leaflet....solidairity magazine, Chair/President reports and UAW.org. What you are talking about is a new organization, splitting up the UAW....stupid fking idea. Lets unite in the organization that we have. Not create another fking organization to fullfill some fking retiree dream, in order to tear down the UAW. The Ford council meeting is the place for local leaders to stress their concerns not some dumb fking back room. I would like to know of one time the UAW took action against any membership not supporting the cause? We have a democrating Union which allows our voice to be heard. So you and your soldiers can go and get fked, stay out of the East side! The company loves this shit!! Well you have put allot of informatioin here. none of it helpful or cognisant. you go cap, more of your wonderful prose and great ideas for our future. anything else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony James Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 first let me say that I never said Gary had integrity, he is a fking tool bag that pushes his no vote at every ratification even when his plant was getting 2B in investment and 2500 members. I was saying he said no at the council meeting and therefore should have kept to his no mentality right or wrong. The rest of them worthless fks need to be replaced if they came home and told everyone to vote no. Wothless ball less leaders.As far as leaflets, we have a means to leaflet....solidairity magazine, Chair/President reports and UAW.org. What you are talking about is a new organization, splitting up the UAW....stupid fking idea. Lets unite in the organization that we have. Not create another fking organization to fullfill some fking retiree dream, in order to tear down the UAW. The Ford council meeting is the place for local leaders to stress their concerns not some dumb fking back room. I would like to know of one time the UAW took action against any membership not supporting the cause? We have a democrating Union which allows our voice to be heard. So you and your soldiers can go and get fked, stay out of the East side! The company loves this shit!! Here is a glaring example of what the IUAW does to people who do not go along with them. If they will do this to an IUAW assistant regional director what do you think will happen to anyone else below them who the IUAW does not like? After Tucker was sworn in, former IUAW President Owen Bieber flatly refused to give him even a congratulatory handshake and refused to meet privately with Tucker the whole time he sat on the IUAW Executive Board. I know that to be a fact. I could not bring this article up as a hyperlink. Go to Google and type the following: NY Times Union Rebel Jerry tucker The man who is fighting the UAW. There's your democratic UAW rhetoric you like to toss around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 first let me say that I never said Gary had integrity, he is a fking tool bag that pushes his no vote at every ratification even when his plant was getting 2B in investment and 2500 members. I was saying he said no at the council meeting and therefore should have kept to his no mentality right or wrong. The rest of them worthless fks need to be replaced if they came home and told everyone to vote no. Wothless ball less leaders.As far as leaflets, we have a means to leaflet....solidairity magazine, Chair/President reports and UAW.org. What you are talking about is a new organization, splitting up the UAW....stupid fking idea. Lets unite in the organization that we have. Not create another fking organization to fullfill some fking retiree dream, in order to tear down the UAW. The Ford council meeting is the place for local leaders to stress their concerns not some dumb fking back room. I would like to know of one time the UAW took action against any membership not supporting the cause? We have a democrating Union which allows our voice to be heard. So you and your soldiers can go and get fked, stay out of the East side! The company loves this shit!! Are you sure you're a Captain? You seem more like a 2nd Lt. I am suggesting that we return to the virtues of the original UAW. I doubt that anyone in their right mind sees the present corporate UAW as anything like the UAW of old. If we had Solidarity Councils, I'm sure the delegates would like to bring Ron and Bob in to answer a few commons sense questions like 1. How do we raise Mexican wages and stop our work from going to Mexico? 2. How do you buy anything on $14hr. 3. What is a Just Wage? 4. Why are we not at least buying parts plants by doing a USW/MCC deal? We can see that many autoworkers have never stopped trying to unite, on their jobs, and sometimes across their plants. Occasionally, across the country like they just did on this NO vote; which was really a YES vote for Solidarity. I imagine that must be very frightening to you and Bob and Ron. In the longer run, we will need a movement that can win big fights - like Polish Solidarity and like the real UAW. All this new, phony UAW does is fight its own members for the corporations. We need a fight that ends in ownership. And since the corps owe us more than they are worth, why would we settle for less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 Well, yes, Captain, from a broader view a newspaper in and of itself is not enough. It is just a tool. When you have the two most powerful aspects of the workplace-the uaw and company-telling us daily that we have to work together, as if the interests of the corporation and the interests of the workers are the same, you are going to have resistance when it is needed during times like the recent reopener. Minds must be changed and it is not done overnight or with just a newletter. It is done by direct action. That includes direct action against a union leadership that is completely out of touch with the shop floor.If you are depending on Solidarity Magazine for your information you are misguided. That rag is nothing more than a mouthpiece for the UAW's entrenched bureaucracy. If you critisize UAW policy in an article you want published in Solidarity magazine it will not get published. If the UAW is the greatest union in the world, after this latest debacle to take away a worker's right to strike, then pal, our objective to win the fight in the world is over. Nothing in this union will ever change from the top down. It must be done from the bottom up. That starts on the shop floor. Not in the union hall where most of those people are just as bad as the IUAW. Just like King said about the worker's advancement hinges on winning power in American politics, The UAW Administration Caucus applies that to keeping themselves in power as well. Exactly Tony. Did King say anything about Obama's Auto Committee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted November 9, 2009 Author Share Posted November 9, 2009 Hi Tom! It's nice to see you posting on here! How have you been? I heard that you had a conversation with a mutual friend the other day! lol Mary Springowski Hi Mary! Yes, I had a delightful talk with a great Irish friend. I am looking for Bob David actually, if anyone knows him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony James Posted November 9, 2009 Share Posted November 9, 2009 Are you sure you're a Captain? You seem more like a 2nd Lt. LOL I am suggesting that we return to the virtues of the original UAW. I doubt that anyone in their right mind sees the present corporate UAW as anything like the UAW of old. If we had Solidarity Councils, I'm sure the delegates would like to bring Ron and Bob in to answer a few commons sense questions like 1. How do we raise Mexican wages and stop our work from going to Mexico? 2. How do you buy anything on $14hr. 3. What is a Just Wage? 4. Why are we not at least buying parts plants by doing a USW/MCC deal? We can see that many autoworkers have never stopped trying to unite, on their jobs, and sometimes across their plants. Occasionally, across the country like they just did on this NO vote; which was really a YES vote for Solidarity. I imagine that must be very frightening to you and Bob and Ron. In the longer run, we will need a movement that can win big fights - like Polish Solidarity and like the real UAW. All this new, phony UAW does is fight its own members for the corporations. We need a fight that ends in ownership. And since the corps owe us more than they are worth, why would we settle for less? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain723 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) Here is a glaring example of what the IUAW does to people who do not go along with them. If they will do this to an IUAW assistant regional director what do you think will happen to anyone else below them who the IUAW does not like? After Tucker was sworn in, former IUAW President Owen Bieber flatly refused to give him even a congratulatory handshake and refused to meet privately with Tucker the whole time he sat on the IUAW Executive Board. I know that to be a fact. I could not bring this article up as a hyperlink. Go to Google and type the following: NY Times Union Rebel Jerry tucker The man who is fighting the UAW. There's your democratic UAW rhetoric you like to toss around. Hey Tony, I have only met Owen one time, he didn't really seem like the type. If all the rules were followed there should have been no issue. That is not what the UAW stands for and I can tell you that the leaders in office today would not allow any of that to happen. So I am not saying things like that in the past didn't go on, doesn't make sense in todays world. There are unwritten rules, like the 65 age limit, and a couple other rules that are there to protect the integrity of the UAW. Reasons behind all of them, again not certain on the reason for this, but I will try and research it. I can tell you with the leaders today shit like that does not happen. Like I said, if someone speaks up, like Gary, Bob will order his staff to help Gary understand and if he still doesn't and Gary calls for help the IUAW will be there next to his side! Still think he should come up with some suggestions instead of NO! Saying no does not get us anywhere. Getting things resolved is what moves us forward so that us members and the company can prosper. If the company doesn't make money, than neither do us members (unless you work at Saline)! I know alot of brothers and sisters that are hurting right now financially. It is real, there are approx. 40 members a week filing bankruptcy. Everyone is hurting right now, we just need to stick together and hang on until this thing passes us by. It will, just like in the late 70's and 80's we will come back and prosper. We all just need to be smart about it. I think in a time when we are having problems we need more assistance than in a time of where things are booming. We need to hold back when times are good and get more support when times are hard. Like the tuition assistance, it was easier to do when we were making money, but because nothing was put in place to limit or preserve for rough times we had to give it up when we needed it most. Just some of the things that I think we will learn from all this. Locals will be getting more support because of what the company has been doing. It is real, at my plant there are supervisors monitoring what other supervisors are doing. I have to see anyone lose a job, but get them the fk off the floor and put them in an office out of our face! Any way we will be a stronger Union because we will stick together (we need to stick together). The company/media/other unions don't think we are strong from turning this thing down, they take that as us being weak! We will show them soon......723 Safety and Health grievances for everyone!! Lets take them out until they respect the local leadership!! :banmolest: If you knew me personally you would know that I am really a radical...I try and be some what calm on this site, but sometimes the liquor gets the best of me!! :sandbox: Edited November 11, 2009 by Captain723 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted November 11, 2009 Author Share Posted November 11, 2009 Hey Tony, I have only met Owen one time, he didn't really seem like the type. If all the rules were followed there should have been no issue. That is not what the UAW stands for and I can tell you that the leaders in office today would not allow any of that to happen. So I am not saying things like that in the past didn't go on, doesn't make sense in todays world. There are unwritten rules, like the 65 age limit, and a couple other rules that are there to protect the integrity of the UAW. Reasons behind all of them, again not certain on the reason for this, but I will try and research it. I can tell you with the leaders today shit like that does not happen. Like I said, if someone speaks up, like Gary, Bob will order his staff to help Gary understand and if he still doesn't and Gary calls for help the IUAW will be there next to his side! Still think he should come up with some suggestions instead of NO! Saying no does not get us anywhere. Getting things resolved is what moves us forward so that us members and the company can prosper. If the company doesn't make money, than neither do us members (unless you work at Saline)! I know alot of brothers and sisters that are hurting right now financially. It is real, there are approx. 40 members a week filing bankruptcy. Everyone is hurting right now, we just need to stick together and hang on until this thing passes us by. It will, just like in the late 70's and 80's we will come back and prosper. We all just need to be smart about it. I think in a time when we are having problems we need more assistance than in a time of where things are booming. We need to hold back when times are good and get more support when times are hard. Like the tuition assistance, it was easier to do when we were making money, but because nothing was put in place to limit or preserve for rough times we had to give it up when we needed it most. Just some of the things that I think we will learn from all this. Locals will be getting more support because of what the company has been doing. It is real, at my plant there are supervisors monitoring what other supervisors are doing. I have to see anyone lose a job, but get them the fk off the floor and put them in an office out of our face! Any way we will be a stronger Union because we will stick together (we need to stick together). The company/media/other unions don't think we are strong from turning this thing down, they take that as us being weak! We will show them soon......723 Safety and Health grievances for everyone!! Lets take them out until they respect the local leadership!! :banmolest: If you knew me personally you would know that I am really a radical...I try and be some what calm on this site, but sometimes the liquor gets the best of me!! :sandbox: Yes. A whole lot of people are hurting. 37 million Americans in poverty because we no longer have a Solidarity Movement that can defend the core of goodness in our country - which comes from the family, not the corporation. The modern UAW you are so keen to support, rejected the UAWs principles when it traitored against Solidarity for dog-eat-dog competitiveness and global baloney. The modern UAW should be ashamed to even claim the UAW name. There are no true UAW Heroes or Heroines who would sup[port what these selfish, point-people for dog-eat-dog, corporate sucks are doing. Our UAW Heroes and Heroines roll in their graves over these traitors. How do you think a Just Economy is going to come out of abandoning The Good Fight for our jobs, families and communities which is the basic work of a real Trade Union? How would there be a recovery for us without jobs? 37 million Americas in poverty! Is it not mind-boggling? And your leaders at Solidarity House drive by the sad evidence, the impoverished result of their dog-eat-dog work every day in Detroit. How can any virtuous, reasonable, common sense man or woman think dog-eat-dog competiveness is better than Solidarity??? But they, the modernist UAW misleaders have the audacity to lecture us on the goodness of their work in reducing wages to $14hr, obliterating the UAW Skilled Trades, eliminating the 8-hour day, slashing UNION work rules that make our work at least tolerable, stealing pensions from young workers and methodically cutting our UAW from more than a million and a half members to what- 400,00 now? This is all done in the name of saving the corporations and maximizing their profits so that somethng will trickle down to that ever-dwindling few of us who remain until the next round of sellouts. It is all just tricklle down for the fewer and fewer survivors. It's why we started referring to the sellout agreements some years ago as "Survivor Contracts". It was because the idea was no longer the UAW philosophy of good jobs for all. It was because the new philosophy is a few good jobs for a few and don't look at all the poverty we are contributing to. That is the modernist UAW program they are trying to sell and you support. Show me where this is linked in any way to the original Solidarity Soul of the late-great UAW? The true UAW was constructed out of the goodness of the family. It is why we still occasionally calle ach other brother and Sister. The true UAW brought real force to The Good Fight and set out to win good jobs for all in a Solidarity Society. They loved workers everywhere! The USW/MCC agreement is a revolution for Solidarity in that it takes us back to the family and comminity truth of real Trade Unionism. It is 180 degrees away from what the destructive path the UAW insists on leading us down. The USW/MCC agreement shows the way to craft, quality and democratic production and a friendly society for our kids. It answers every question and criticims raised in ths forum. It poses a long-term Solidarity solution to all our problems. I suggest that all who are interested in good jobs, good wages, good trades and cooperative, worker-owned production take a careful look at it so we can discuss it here, in our plants and neighborhoods, and across our country. If you read it and examine MCC carefully, I think you will see that it makes all the sense in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggtone Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Captain- It is S O L I D A R I T Y ! Your point as to the single NO vote at the Ford Council pretty much makes my point that we need a safe place for local union delegates to speak their minds and act like Solidarity reps. Unfortunately we lack many delegates with the integrity and courage that Gary has. Most deleagtes will tell you (off the floor) that if you stand up to the stupidity and dog-eat-dog corporate lunacy of people like King and Gettelfinger, they will screw the folks you represent. I was told by a local rep a few days before the vote that if this deal went down, the UAW would cut the wages of people making the top wage, IN HALF. So, he feared doing the right thing, the UNION thing, in fighting the $14hr. sin. Trade Unionism is not a difficult thing to understand. Most of us learn Solidarity in our families and neighborhoods long before we go to work. It was the old UAW who took what our folks taught us and built it into a way of life and fought for that way of life to be extended to the old idea of good jobs for all and THE GOOD FIGHT TO GET THERE. What could possibly be wrong with asking ourselves and our locals to organize a safe place for our reps to get together and discuss a common sense society where everyone has a good job and every kid a happy future? 37 million Americans now in poverty and the UAW waves goodbye to our jobs in the interests of corporatism. . Is that a sin? Can that be fixed? Of course it can but the UAW has proven itself to be a big part of this problem. The USW/MCC agrement is showing us the way. Only a fool would ignore it. amen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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