Mackintire Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Some information on the Global Ranger replacement developed by Ford Austraila has now been released. The most comprehensive article I am ware of is over at www.pickuptrucks.com So now we know that the T6 splits the difference in width between the 2002-2004 Explorer and the newer 2005-2010 Explorer. The easiest way to conceptualize the size of this thing is to examine the 2010 explorer sport trek becuase its somewhat of a similar size. So let review what information has been released and what we can infer. The T6 is smaller than the F150 but not by a huge margin. Packaging and design changes can and will make the difference. For example: The T6 is 1000lbs lighter than the F150. The T6 has a 3000lbs bed load capability The T6 is expected to have a 9000lb tow capacity , when properly equipped The T6 is expected to have engine options capable of meeting or exceeding 30 MPG, when properly equipped The T6 if manufacturered here would almost the same as the F150 in materials The largest engine we know that will be an option in the T6 is the 3.2 liter inline 5 cyl TDCi Duratorq diesel with 200HP and 349lbs of torq The smaller diesel is the 2.2 liter inline 4 cly TDCi Duratorq diesel with 140hp and 270lbs of torq The internal cockpit options are closer to what is offered in the F150 than what we were used to in the Ranger So if it came to the US what would be the issues? #1 Price This is a high tech, well built, capable truck...the rest of the world does not have an F150, so this truck is it. # 2 Market overlap This truck is too close in size and capability to the F150. Bringing this truck to the US would severely harm F150 sales. If you need to tow more than 8000lbs you probably should have an F250 or bigger anyhow. #3 market perception The US market still looks at trucks as if bigger equals bettter. By logic T6, with the right engine options, are probably a better choice for 90% of all the F150 owners out there. But logical thinking is not always profitable, Ford knows this. When are we going to see the T6, how is it going to suceed and why? The current F150 has zero chance of passing the 2016 EPA rules. The T6 brought in as a F100 could keep those customers, but Ford would have to offer three power plants or something similar to keep those customers. Those engines are: The Eco-boost 2.0 with 230HP and 240lbs of torq The Durtech 3.7 liter V6 300HP and 278lbs of torq The 3.2 liter Duratorq i5 200HP and 350lbs of torq The F150 at that point will become a low volume vehicle, however the F100 will meet the 2016 EPA regulations of avg 26MPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 The current F150 has zero chance of passing the 2016 EPA rules. ... The F150 at that point will become a low volume vehicle, however the F100 will meet the 2016 EPA regulations of avg 26MPG The current F-150 doesn't have to meet 2016 EPA rules. The 2016 F-150 does, which I'm sure everyone inside Ford is confident it will. Remember: CAFE 26 mpg != EPA 26 mpg. The current F-150 is already getting somewhere in the range of 23-24 mpg toward CAFE. The F-150 will continue to be the bulk of pickup truck sales (with the Super Duty not very far behind) for Ford well into the foreseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 The current F-150 doesn't have to meet 2016 EPA rules. The 2016 F-150 does, which I'm sure everyone inside Ford is confident it will. Remember: CAFE 26 mpg != EPA 26 mpg. The current F-150 is already getting somewhere in the range of 23-24 mpg toward CAFE. The F-150 will continue to be the bulk of pickup truck sales (with the Super Duty not very far behind) for Ford well into the foreseeable future. I do agree that CAFE 26 MPG is not the same as EPA 26MPG I think you've been misinformed the upcoming 2011 F-150 makes a range of 19-23 mpg toward CAFE. The current Ford Ranger pulls the truck average higher. The 3.7 liter is 23MPG in a 2x4 The 5.0 is 21 MPG in s 4x4 The EB 3.5 is expected to be 22MPG in a 4x4 The 6.2 liter is 19MPG in a 4x4 In 2012 we will not have the current Ford Ranger helping CAFE. We will have the Transit Connect which is helping now and should help even more by then. Again unless Ford has a way to beat the laws of physics, I have no faith that all the 5600lb F150s are going to get 26 MPG or better on the highway. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) I do agree that CAFE 26 MPG is not the same as EPA 26MPG I think you've been misinformed the upcoming 2011 F-150 makes a range of 19-23 mpg toward CAFE. The current Ford Ranger pulls the truck average higher. The 3.7 liter is 23MPG in a 2x4 The 5.0 is 21 MPG in s 4x4 The EB 3.5 is expected to be 22MPG in a 4x4 The 6.2 liter is 19MPG in a 4x4 In 2012 we will not have the current Ford Ranger helping CAFE. We will have the Transit Connect which is helping now and should help even more by then. Again unless Ford has a way to beat the laws of physics, I have no faith that all the 5600lb F150s are going to get 26 MPG or better on the highway. . The F-150 doesn't have to be 26 MPG....the AVERAGE of ALL of Ford's trucks (including vehicles like the Escape, which is classified as a light truck, same as F-150) has to be 26 mpg. In other words, this is a non-issue already. Edited October 18, 2010 by NickF1011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 The F-150 doesn't have to be 26 MPG....the AVERAGE of ALL of Ford's trucks (including vehicles like the Escape, which is classified as a light truck, same as F-150) has to be 26 mpg. In other words, this is a non-issue already. Escape moves to the Kuga platform...and will be weighted as a car. Ford will be left with the F150, Transit Connect, Cmax. Either way....F150 is a big pig that'll be around for a few more years. E150 is scheduled to be replaced with the transit in 2014. 3/4 ton trucks and vans are here to stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Escape moves to the Kuga platform...and will be weighted as a car. As far as I know, that's entirely incorrect. The Escape drives a car platform right now and is weighted as a truck. The Edge rides on a car platform and is weighted as a truck. The new Explorer rides on a car platform and will be weighted as a truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackintire Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 (edited) As far as I know, that's entirely incorrect. The Escape drives a car platform right now and is weighted as a truck. The Edge rides on a car platform and is weighted as a truck. The new Explorer rides on a car platform and will be weighted as a truck. At the moment Kuga is considered a CUV. Ford could try to submit it as a truck...the NHTSA is not obligated to agree with them. The new law has some strange math involved. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy Each vehicle is weighted as its own vehicle against its footprint with a penalty added as the vehicle gets bigger. They did design a sweet spot for engineers to target and it happens to be a similar size to the T6, Edge, Explorer and the Flex. Notice they are all very similar in width. That is, in part, why it is probable that we will see the T6 replace the F150 at some distant point in the future. The only thing that could speed up the process would be for fuel to stay above $4.00 a gallon for the indefinite future. Edited October 18, 2010 by Mackintire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 At the moment Kuga is considered a CUV. Ford could try to submit it as a truck...the NHTSA is not obligated to agree with them. There is no "CUV" category in CAFE though unless they are planning to change it. Every CUV I know of at present (and even some vehicles one would assume is a "passenger car" like the PT Cruiser) falls into the Light Truck category instead of the Passenger Car category. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpd80 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Under CAFE, anything that is not a sedan or a station wagon is classified as a Truck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 Under CAFE, anything that is not a sedan or a station wagon is classified as a Truck Well...not quite true. All coupes/convertibles (except the upcoming Murano drop-top and the Chevy SSR in the past??) are classified as passenger cars. Some "station wagons" like the previously mentioned PT Cruiser fell into the light truck category for whatever reason. CAFE is a strange animal for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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