Focus - Reliability, Handling, and Ford's Reputation

[ferrum]

This thread may not garner a lot of unbiased responses (being on a Ford forum asking about a Ford car), but what better place to get impressions of a car than a place where lots of people have driven it.

 

Background

Basically, I'm currently driving a 1998 Honda Accord EX (4 cyl.) and recently passed 170,000 miles. While the car certainly has many more miles on it, I've been feeling more and more it is time to investigate getting a new (or newer) car.

 

Prior to the Accord I'd owned a 1998 Ford Contour V6, a reliable car, but not nearly as fun to drive as the Accord. So when it came to looking for a car now, I've been looking more on the Honda side of the fence (Accord or Civic). But as I checked out competition, I saw that the Ford Focus (a car which always seemed a bit blocky and tiny to me) was getting the 2012 redesign. And I was impressed, not just with the design features, but also with the way packages and features are set up (e.g. Honda puts a moonroof standard with all of its upper level trims. I never use a moonroof; I'd prefer to put my money in other features).

 

So here are my questions.

 

Questions and Issues

The only Ford vehicle I've experienced in the recent history was the 98 Contour. As noted before, I felt the Accord's handling blew it out of the water. I'm wondering what the Focus has been like in past model years, and if anyone has test driven the 2012 model yet. My impression is that it will handle much better than the Contour or Accord, but I wanted to get some first-hand non-reviewer impressions.

 

Another concern I've had is reliability. Honda tends to be pretty legendary with reliability, and I balk a little to betray that. However, I understand that Ford has been improving its reliability recently. Is that true? I don't want to take a plunge into a car that will require major repairs before the 120,000 mile mark. The Contour didn't have any problems, but I'm not sure how different models rate. Given, I know that the new Focus is just that--new. But I also wondered if anyone had reliability impressions of previous Focus models, including the European ones (from which the 2012 supposedly gets its heritage). There's a common reputation for Ford amidst my friends and family...primarily, the acronym "Fix Or Repair Daily". I'm willing to consider Ford because of the huge improvements I see in features and finish in their new products. But I don't want to be embarrassed by serious repairs or issues in a short period of time.

 

Any feedback you guys have (however biased ) is welcome!

[emerrill]

This thread may not garner a lot of unbiased responses (being on a Ford forum asking about a Ford car), but what better place to get impressions of a car than a place where lots of people have driven it.

 

Background

Basically, I'm currently driving a 1998 Honda Accord EX (4 cyl.) and recently passed 170,000 miles. While the car certainly has many more miles on it, I've been feeling more and more it is time to investigate getting a new (or newer) car.

 

Prior to the Accord I'd owned a 1998 Ford Contour V6, a reliable car, but not nearly as fun to drive as the Accord. So when it came to looking for a car now, I've been looking more on the Honda side of the fence (Accord or Civic). But as I checked out competition, I saw that the Ford Focus (a car which always seemed a bit blocky and tiny to me) was getting the 2012 redesign. And I was impressed, not just with the design features, but also with the way packages and features are set up (e.g. Honda puts a moonroof standard with all of its upper level trims. I never use a moonroof; I'd prefer to put my money in other features).

 

So here are my questions.

 

Questions and Issues

The only Ford vehicle I've experienced in the recent history was the 98 Contour. As noted before, I felt the Accord's handling blew it out of the water. I'm wondering what the Focus has been like in past model years, and if anyone has test driven the 2012 model yet. My impression is that it will handle much better than the Contour or Accord, but I wanted to get some first-hand non-reviewer impressions.

 

Another concern I've had is reliability. Honda tends to be pretty legendary with reliability, and I balk a little to betray that. However, I understand that Ford has been improving its reliability recently. Is that true? I don't want to take a plunge into a car that will require major repairs before the 120,000 mile mark. The Contour didn't have any problems, but I'm not sure how different models rate. Given, I know that the new Focus is just that--new. But I also wondered if anyone had reliability impressions of previous Focus models, including the European ones (from which the 2012 supposedly gets its heritage). There's a common reputation for Ford amidst my friends and family...primarily, the acronym "Fix Or Repair Daily". I'm willing to consider Ford because of the huge improvements I see in features and finish in their new products. But I don't want to be embarrassed by serious repairs or issues in a short period of time.

 

Any feedback you guys have (however biased ) is welcome!

 

Modern Fords are generally pretty reliable. I have a 2005 Ford Five Hundred, which was a brand new vehicle that year. It has 115k miles on it now, and I have had absolutely no problems with it, other than when it was new it had to go in twice for software updates, but it hasn't been to a dealer or maint shop in 4yrs - 90k miles (I do brakes and oil myself). Ford generally isn't in Honda territory, and I can almost guaranty that there will be at least one recall on the 2012 Focus, that's just how it goes with new vehicles, but I for one am not batting an eye at getting one.

 

As for the Focus historically, it does have repaire rates that are above average, but not out of the realm of normal. Personally I use truedelta.com for stats like this.

[ranchero]

My wife and I have owned several Japanese cars - but no Hondas. We've had four Mazdas and three Toyotas.

 

They are a pain in the butt to get fixed. They never have failed mechanically - but have done so with durability issues. These include rear window glass on a Miata convertible, a sound system/radio on a RAV4, and the like. The problem is that there are not many Mazda or Toyota dealers in our part of the country. If you travel the mountain west & great plains (as we do), you want dealers.

 

Ford cars have equal or better reliability. Durability issues do happen with Ford cars, but there are Ford dealers everywhere from Phoenix to St. Louis and Boise to LaCrosse - generally the area where we go.

 

No Ford (I won't list them all but there have been 15 or 20 over the years) has ever left me stranded. Dealers have been fine in the mountain west and great plains.

 

Fords (but except for V-8 Mustangs and T-Birds) are boring but nobody will break into one or steal it.

 

Try a Ford. I have enjoyed my many. I just wish they would make real station wagons. I trust Ford and you should too.

 

- ranchero -

[DEREKC]

If you do some good research you will find that the 2012 Focus has been given a great attention by Ford, in regards to its global design (German), and every manner of testing to make sure that it is absolutely the Best. I always do a great deal of research before spending money of products, because I want the best value for my money, the new generation of Ford vehicle delivers. When looking at the new Focus you need to forget anything North American, and look to Europe as it is based on the best selling Euro Focus. I believe that the the new Focus will be the absolute best, and that is why I pre-ordered the car!

 

I previously had a 1997 Ford Escort, which at the time I purchased it in 2000 had a quality and reliability rating that matched the Honda Civic. Based on this information and the great price, it became mine. It never gave me any grief, other than the normal maintenance stuff. I recently sold it for next to nothing, because the body was rusting quickly (Canadian winters & lots of salt), but the engine still ran like a top!

 

Dealers have started to receive the base models of the 2012 Focus, so why not go out for a drive. I will be Wednesday evening! I don't expect a lot from a base model, so it should be interesting.

[Skippy905]

Well, I've owned a 1998 Accord as well, and up until recently had a 2004 Civic (traded it in to get a Pilot for family use). I have always loved Honda. I like how their cars are put together and stay together. Yes, the reliability is legendary. However, Ford has come huge strides in past years, and is rated quite high for reliability.

 

My brother has a 2004 Focus, of which there has been no major problems at all. It has been a great little car. With the new design and features, I expect that the Focus will feel and handle much better than my old Civic (which was fun to drive)

 

In Europe the Focus has always been a good reliable performer. Just watch Top Gear, they actually rave about it, and that says a lot.

 

Of course with the 2012 Focus there will be some first year issues, but considering all the effort put into the release (just look at how they are handling MFT), I expect the recalls will be minimal.

 

One problem I can comment about Honda is this:

 

Simple jobs on a Honda can be a ton of work. I remember trying to replace the rear speakers, and found I had to pull out the entire back seat, and rear deck lid just to do it.

[aneekr]

Since the Mk3 Focus is a new product, reliability information on it is sparse. As emerrill suggested, sign up for an account on truedelta.com if you haven't done so already - that site generally has reliability data for new cars earlier than the likes of J.D. Power and Consumer Reports.

 

I look forward to test driving a Mk3 Focus very soon. If its handling is anything like the Mk2 C1 Focus or the somewhat related Mazda3, it will be very impressive indeed. I've owned two Honda Accords (a fifth gen EX 4 cylinder 5MT, and a seventh gen LX V6 5AT) myself; the 2010 Ford Fusion I purchased last year (with the sportier suspension tuning that comes with the Appearance Package) is more agile and responsive than either of the Hondas. The new Focus should be as good or better in that regard.

Edited April 2, 2011 by aneekr

[ferrum]

Thanks guys, your comments have been really helpful.

 

Just a couple more questions:

- One thing I've heard is that the "tightness" of the handling often degrades with the car's age, but moreso in the case of the American auto makers. I've heard that the Japanese automakers don't experience the same problems. Any truth to those rumors?

- One thing I do like about my Accord is how well it holds a straight line (I hardly have to touch the steering wheel when driving on the highway). The Contour never held that well. Any news on how well the new Focus will hold?

[aneekr]

- One thing I do like about my Accord is how well it holds a straight line (I hardly have to touch the steering wheel when driving on the highway). The Contour never held that well. Any news on how well the new Focus will hold?

The 2012 Focus uses a belt drive electric power steering system developed by TRW. My 2010 Fusion has a similar system that evinces excellent on-center feel and tracking at highway speeds. That bodes well for the new Focus.

[emerrill]

The 2012 Focus uses a belt drive electric power steering system developed by TRW. My 2010 Fusion has a similar system that evinces excellent on-center feel and tracking at highway speeds. That bodes well for the new Focus.

 

According to Ford, if you are driving with a slight pull for a while (like on a heavily domed road), it 'learns' that, and will compisate on it's own so you don't have to.

[MKII]

Thanks guys, your comments have been really helpful.

 

Just a couple more questions:

- One thing I've heard is that the "tightness" of the handling often degrades with the car's age, but moreso in the case of the American auto makers. I've heard that the Japanese automakers don't experience the same problems. Any truth to those rumors?

- One thing I do like about my Accord is how well it holds a straight line (I hardly have to touch the steering wheel when driving on the highway). The Contour never held that well. Any news on how well the new Focus will hold?

 

Your 1st point I have not heard this rumor before.

 

2nd issue is not an issue with Ford driving dynamics as Ford has been using "Pull Drift Compensation first used on the MY2008 Escape.

 

• Pull-Drift Compensation is a softwarebased technology enabled by Ford’s

shift to fuel-efficient Electric Power

Assist Steering (EPAS) systems.

• The technology detects road

conditions – such as a crowned

road surface or crosswinds – and

adjusts the EPAS steering system

to help the driver compensate for

pulling and drifting.

• For drivers, Pull-Drift Compensation

is designed to be unnoticeable

as the system adjusts to help

with pulling or drifting conditions

 

How it Works -

• Sensors constantly measure steeringwheel torque applied by the driver to

maintain the vehicle’s path. Continuous

adjustments are made as the system

resets to adapt to changing road

conditions or maneuvers, such as

the vehicle turning a corner.

• When the system detects a pulling or

drifting condition, such as a crowned

road surface, it provides torque

assistance to help make steering easier.

For drivers, this assistance is seamless

and imperceptible

Edited April 3, 2011 by MKII

[DEREKC]

I don't feel that anything ever degraded with my 97' Ford Escort; the car was always offered consistent performance.

Here is a really good real world review of the new Focus. I hope that helps.

 

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/02/review-2011-ford-focus-se-sedan-and-focus-titanium-five-door/

[theoldwizard]

I tell almost everyone, "Never buy a new car in the first year of production, regardless of what brand ! "

 

While the base design of the 2012 US Focus is most care over from the EU Focus (and therefor inherits all of it good handling attributes), there are some new technologies, that are still in their infancy

• Direct Injection
  
• Direct Shift Gearbox (PowerShift)
  

 

I will be watching these closely as I plan on purchasing a new Focus late this calendar year.

[transitman]

I tell almost everyone, "Never buy a new car in the first year of production, regardless of what brand ! "

 

While the base design of the 2012 US Focus is most care over from the EU Focus (and therefor inherits all of it good handling attributes), there are some new technologies, that are still in their infancy

• Direct Injection
• Direct Shift Gearbox (PowerShift)

 

I will be watching these closely as I plan on purchasing a new Focus late this calendar year.

There have been many cases of new model first year problems, the Citation comes to mind. As fast as technologies develop and mature, direct injection isn't a new technology anymore, having been used in autos since the late 90's and even more common since the mid 2000's. The EcoBoost seems to be doing very well. Hopfully the bugs have been worked out of the PowerShift trans since it's been out for over a year in the Fiesta. I'm confident the new Focus will be a winner out of the gate and Ford is going to make sure it is. If not, that's what warranties are for.

[theoldwizard]

The EcoBoost seems to be doing very well.

There are still engineers "sweating the details".

 

Big "gut check" if Ford follows through with putting a 5yr/100k powertrain warranty on the new PI's with EcoBoost.

[fusion37]

There are still engineers "sweating the details".

 

Big "gut check" if Ford follows through with putting a 5yr/100k powertrain warranty on the new PI's with EcoBoost.

First off, I have had a Titanium sedan with all options except the two-color seat option on order since the first week the order bank opened. I'm an old guy who has driven Fords for longer than probably most readers of this board have been alive. I've go full confidence in the new Focus. I currently drive a 2010 Fusion Sport and given all the cars I've owned,of many different brands, I'd be hard pressed to say I've had a better one that the Fusion.

That said, I had a 2006 MazdaSpeed 6, which I figured at the time was a test bed for something yet to come; it was a turbo (EconBoost?) with direct injection. Ran like stink, fun to drive, etc. At about 12K miles, it started to smoke like a steam engine. I had all my records and I guess, given my age, the Mazda dealer didn't think I'd abused the car. Long story short, they put a complete new engine in the car. I soon traded it for a Mazda 3, which BTW was a great car.

Bottom line: I think that car was test of the EcoBoost & DI. After my experience, apparently the MazdaSpeed 6 problems were resolved. I think any potential problems with the 2012 Focus have been largely resolved. I'm looking forward to getting a build date on my Titanium.

[ferrum]

Thanks again for the responses.

 

I'd like to revisit the reliability again. I was surfing TrueDelta, and decided to check out the Fiesta, being that it is a recent Ford sedanish vehicle. I was surprised to see over 70 repairs per 100 for a 2011 car-- a pretty abysmal score. It makes me really jumpy about considering a Focus for at least another year (and since I'm aiming for a purchase this year sometime, puts it out of my target). I don't want to get stuck with a new car that has that kind of rating....

 

Any thoughts?

[emerrill]

It is true Fiesta repair rates have been poor, and that is a risk for any new vehicle.

 

It's really hard to say how it's going to play out with the Focus. There is the risk associated with a new platform, vehicle, and even assembly line. At the same time Ford took away a number of lessons learned from the Fiesta launch. People I know who are familiar with the work at the factory have said that the QA is pretty extensive - each vehicle goes through hours and hours of testing at the factory, with any problems found being reworked on the car before it is released (and fixing the line for repeat problems)

[DEREKC]

My gf bought a Fiesta at the beginning of this year and has not had any problems. The Truedelta information is not complete, because I would say most of the issues were from the very first cars, and they were not large issues. The major problem seemed to be with the dual-clutch transmission, but was actually just a simple grounding problem...Ford painted over the grounding post. I believe their was another issue with the seat adjust lever or door handle. Ford has put too much effort and money into the new Focus to mess it up now!

[aneekr]

Thanks again for the responses.

 

I'd like to revisit the reliability again. I was surfing TrueDelta, and decided to check out the Fiesta, being that it is a recent Ford sedanish vehicle. I was surprised to see over 70 repairs per 100 for a 2011 car-- a pretty abysmal score. It makes me really jumpy about considering a Focus for at least another year (and since I'm aiming for a purchase this year sometime, puts it out of my target). I don't want to get stuck with a new car that has that kind of rating....

 

Any thoughts?

The worse than average TS for the 2011 Fiesta on TrueDelta was largely due to two common issues: faulty electrical ground on DCT equipped models (as DEREKC noted), and problematic fuel level sensors.

 

Most other B,C, and D segment Fords have ranked about average in TrueDelta's reliability surveys. If the data still causes you to be "jumpy" in considering a Ford product, remove the 2012 Focus from your shopping list. I'm not sure if you're only considering C-segment cars to replace your Accord, but if so, get a 2011 Honda Civic as there are great deals to be had with the commencement of production on the 9th gen 2012 model.

[ferrum]

Most other B,C, and D segment Fords have ranked about average in TrueDelta's reliability surveys. If the data still causes you to be "jumpy" in considering a Ford product, remove the 2012 Focus from your shopping list.

 

That's a good point. My concern is buying a new car and in 15,000 miles being stuck on the side of the road. I have enough troubles like that with a 13 year old car, and I don't want to experience it again but after plunking down many thousand dollars more. I'm not as concerned about "Average" as long as it doesn't mean I'm putting in a new transmission in four years.

 

As such, seeing a recently redesigned vehicle (Fiesta) that reflects Ford's current processes (engineering and QA) that scores so poorly tends to make me hesitate. It sounds like Ford is being more particular with the Focus, and more technology has been tested. But I just don't want to ignore warning signs that indicate the Focus launch would end poorly.

 

That said, every time I consider a Civic again, I wince a little. They are so devoid of features (and to some degree, styling) that I hesitate to go there. Right now, the 2012 Focus is holding the top of my list (against the 2011 Civic and 2011 Mazda3), but I suppose the biggest problem with the Focus I have is the risk of purchasing an unproven car--it could turn out as well as the Fusion (which I'd be comfortable with in the reliability spectrum), but obviously, I can't be sure...

 

The next best question is: how long does it take to get reasonable reliability information about a new car?

[transitman]

Despite what's been posted here, all the positive reviews (I assume you have read) from every mag and web site, the popularity and proven reliability of the European Focus, it seems you feel the Focus will let you down at the 15000 mile mark. You say the Focus is holding the top of your list, is it really, or is that what you want to believe. Your questions can't be answered because no one has received their ordered Focus' and the bare bones S, SE's and SEL's are just now arriving at dealerships. You need to find an SE or an SEL at a local dealership and experience it. Over all, Ford's reliability and owner loyalty now tops all others, there's the answer to the question. Stop agonizing over this, at this point all you will get here are opinions, you need to test drive the Mazda 3, then the Focus and stop fooling yourself and stay with your real choice, the Civic.

Edited April 8, 2011 by transitman

[DEREKC]

Your concern is understandable, but if Ford did not consider this car so incredibly important the market would already be flooded with them. The 2012 Focus may be new, but not entirely, as it is based on the previous Euro version...which is one of the most popular cars in Euroland. The Fiesta was also a proven car, as it was taken right from Europe with very little modification.....thought it is amazing what problems a little extra paint on a grounding post can cause! Oops! Have you been out to test drive the Focus SE model which every dealership now has available? Please do so! My dealer gave me a dealer plate and said "See you in an hour?". It was nice to take my time and enjoy the car. I hope they do the same for you.

[Tom D]

I am not going to be long winded, but while living in Belgium I bought a 2001 Focus ZTS through Diplomatic sales (US spec). From 2001 through 2005 it accumulated 55,000 miles. I picked it up in Bremerhaven Germany I drove the car through out Europe with my family, four of us. The only time I had any trouble was coming back from southern Spain I had two cases of wine, 1 case of brandy and luggage. (I got a little wheel scrape). It had no problem reaching 110 mph on the autobaun or climbing the alps in Italy. I brought the car back to the US with me and just sold it so I could get an Edge. You can't go wrong with the Focus I am sure it has gotten better if that is possible

[saltracer]

That's a good point. My concern is buying a new car and in 15,000 miles being stuck on the side of the road. I have enough troubles like that with a 13 year old car, and I don't want to experience it again but after plunking down many thousand dollars more. I'm not as concerned about "Average" as long as it doesn't mean I'm putting in a new transmission in four years.

 

As such, seeing a recently redesigned vehicle (Fiesta) that reflects Ford's current processes (engineering and QA) that scores so poorly tends to make me hesitate. It sounds like Ford is being more particular with the Focus, and more technology has been tested. But I just don't want to ignore warning signs that indicate the Focus launch would end poorly.

 

That said, every time I consider a Civic again, I wince a little. They are so devoid of features (and to some degree, styling) that I hesitate to go there. Right now, the 2012 Focus is holding the top of my list (against the 2011 Civic and 2011 Mazda3), but I suppose the biggest problem with the Focus I have is the risk of purchasing an unproven car--it could turn out as well as the Fusion (which I'd be comfortable with in the reliability spectrum), but obviously, I can't be sure...

 

The next best question is: how long does it take to get reasonable reliability information about a new car?

I have some concerns in that same area. My 2006 ZX3 has been great. Zero problems. I have decided to wait until later this year and see when the 2013 model is going to come out before ordering one.

I live in far SE Arizona and not a single Ford dealer even has one that I can look at. I have to drive over 200 miles round trip to see one. Maybe next week.

Howard

[Spooky]

I have been fortunate enough to have in 25 years, purchased a used Econoline customized van,a new 1988 Bronco II XLT (149,000 miles at time of selling it), a 1985 F150 (180,000miles at time of selling), a 1994 F150 (still driving it and NOT one problem with it), a 1995 Mustang(only had it 4 days), a 1995 GT Mustang, a 1997 Mustang Gt, 2000 Cobra, 2003 GT Mustang (convertible and automatic) and now for my forever car, a 2006 GT Premium Mustang convertible. Now I have a Focus Hatch on order, SEL, with everything but a moon roof.

The only problem I ever had was the first 1995 Mustang. Seems I got a "Friday car" and my car leaked when I got it. Come to find out, the car was not secured together down the driver's side. My dealer checked it out, called me immediately and told me to go on the lot and pick out anything else out there and they would give me the deal of the century. I picked a beautiful teal GT, 5 speed, with all the bells and whistles. No hassles, and an awesome car. Since that time, I have had great customer service, and my vehicles have never had a problem. Three years ago, I saw the concept car for the Focus 5 door. I was in love! You could not get one yet, so I bought a Prius to drive until I could get one. Now, my car is on order, sold the Prius, and I am sitting here on pins and needles waiting for this new car.

 

I hope if you choose to drive a Ford that you have the great luck I have had. There is never a doubt of which brand of car to drive for me. I am a Ford person because they are a great product, dependable, and fun to drive. Much luck to you!