Legal Action Against 1520?

[Stap guy]

I heard there has been some legal action and an investigation has begun into the actions of 1520. Is there anyone who has direct knowledge of this and if so what exactly are the issues?

[Pete]

I'm positive that the ones involved in the lawsuit have been told by the lawyer to keep quiet.

The only way to know for sure is to join. I haven't, but i am considering it.

Something just does not feel just right about the whole financial issue, including the severance package.

Not sure as of right now, if it's gas or gut instinct.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Pete

[xstapr]

I heard there has been some legal action and an investigation has begun into the actions of 1520. Is there anyone who has direct knowledge of this and if so what exactly are the issues?

Lots of rumours about legal papers being served to the 1520 chiefs and an RCMP investigation but no direct knowledge. Sorry

[Framer]

Lots of rumours about legal papers being served to the 1520 chiefs and an RCMP investigation but no direct knowledge. Sorry

 

 

Sounds like BS to me. Just shop floor "if you haven't heard a rumour by lunch then make one up"

Edited June 16, 2011 by Framer

[GuyfromSTAP]

All I can say is pay attention Oakville and Windsor...these jokers are the same as you have representing you.Rotten top to bottom and hopefully this will bring some light and what the union is up to these days 'fighting' for their members.

[Pete]

All I can say is pay attention Oakville and Windsor...these jokers are the same as you have representing you.Rotten top to bottom and hopefully this will bring some light and what the union is up to these days 'fighting' for their members.

Hooold it....let's not judge prematurely. Let's just wait and see what falls out of the bag. There are plenty of things that bother me too. Some are concerning the financial aspect. I also want to say that All to many of our members have put a label on scott smith , he does not deserve. He was doomed right off the bat. Simply because of the turmoil he stepped into, which was not his doing. You all been at the Information meeting in london and had to vote. Then you all seen scott stand up in front of the rest of the caw brass and ONLY HE had the balls to recommend the rejection of this negotiated mess. Give the guy a break. I voted against. Majority voted in favor. If in fact there is wrong doing, i suspect it to be above scott. Edited June 17, 2011 by Pete

[GuyfromSTAP]

Hooold it....let's not judge prematurely. Let's just wait and see what falls out of the bag.

There are plenty of things that bother me too. Some are concerning the financial aspect.

I also want to sat that All to many of our members have put a label on scott smith , he does not deserve.

He was doomed right off the bat. Simply because of the turmoil he stepped into, which was not his doing.

You all been at the Information meeting in london and had to vote.

Then you all seen scott stand up in front of the rest of the caw brass and ONLY HE had the balls to recommend the rejection of this negotiated mess.

Give the guy a break.

 

I voted against. Majority voted in favor.

If in fact there is wrong doing, i suspect it to be above scott.

 

If indeed you voted no your memory of that day is incorrect.Scott recommended the agreement along with the whole bargaining committee...he wasn't happy but said it was the best they could do.There wasn't one person standing up there saying to turn it down,not sure if you were there how you could not remember that.Scott is either a dumb follower or as guilty as the rest...that I'm not sure of.He is arrogant so he fits in with those on that stage that day.I guess we'll know what and who was doing what when all the papers are investigated.

The union could of avoided all this by answering 1 silly little question but they were too arrogant and greedy to do that....where did you all spend the 400 million Ford gave you for closure???People trusted the union too much on vote day...they didn't understand what we already had in the agreements from the 90's.Out of that 400 million extra Ford gave, a person in my situation got zero more cents then what was on the books since 92 I believe....there wasn't 10 bucks extra as a perk?Money was spent totally and the poor national didn't skim a couple cents for themselves?????I think we know the answer and it's a matter of time I believe that this will be proved.

Edited June 17, 2011 by GuyfromSTAP

[Framer]

Really?

 

You believe Ford gave the CAW $400 million?

 

And they kept it.

 

There is no case in which Ford would give a local or the national money.

 

They would agree to spend money in a certain way (for job training, adjustment programs, severance, buyouts etc) but give money to the union?

 

If you believe your own BS then I guess whatever you say is crap.

[GuyfromSTAP]

Really?

 

You believe Ford gave the CAW $400 million?

 

And they kept it.

 

There is no case in which Ford would give a local or the national money.

 

They would agree to spend money in a certain way (for job training, adjustment programs, severance, buyouts etc) but give money to the union?

 

If you believe your own BS then I guess whatever you say is crap.

 

Believe what you want Framer..I don't really care.Who do you think made up our packages and what groups got what?Think Ford did that then the union agreed to it?If you do...all I can say you are way off base but that is how you are supposed to be in this scheme lol

[STAP130]

If indeed you voted no your memory of that day is incorrect.Scott recommended the agreement along with the whole bargaining committee...he wasn't happy but said it was the best they could do.There wasn't one person standing up there saying to turn it down,not sure if you were there how you could not remember that.Scott is either a dumb follower or as guilty as the rest...that I'm not sure of.He is arrogant so he fits in with those on that stage that day.I guess we'll know what and who was doing what when all the papers are investigated.

The union could of avoided all this by answering 1 silly little question but they were too arrogant and greedy to do that....where did you all spend the 400 million Ford gave you for closure???People trusted the union too much on vote day...they didn't understand what we already had in the agreements from the 90's.Out of that 400 million extra Ford gave, a person in my situation got zero more cents then what was on the books since 92 I believe....there wasn't 10 bucks extra as a perk?Money was spent totally and the poor national didn't skim a couple cents for themselves?????I think we know the answer and it's a matter of time I believe that this will be proved.

 

Do you seriously believe that Ford gave the union $400 000 000 to spend as they wish? Is that what you're saying?

I do not recall anyone saying that Ford agreed to a $400M severance package that is above and beyond the previous agreement.

 

Could you please clarify what was in the previous contract and how that equals or surpasses the current closure agreement? I'm not sure how you cannot see that what we have now is an improvement.

[Cocheese]

Do you seriously believe that Ford gave the union $400 000 000 to spend as they wish? Is that what you're saying?

 

Are you saying the union would have no issues with how or why the company decided to split up the money?

 

From Day 1, I have always been under the impression that Ford agreed to a figure they negotiated with the CAW, and that it was the CAW who decided how it would be given out.

 

The CAW tries having their fingers in everything, what makes you think this is the first thing in the history of their existence that they decided not to be involved in?

 

Besides, if it was the company that decided this, you can be sure that any time someone complained about what the package is, Scott Smith or his minions would point out it was Ford that made the decisions. Since I have yet to hear that, I'll stick with my belief that it was the CAW who divided everything up.

[Stap guy]

I too believe The Caw National is getting a share of the 400 million. I do not believe Scott is savvy enough to be apart of it. Arrogant maybe but not savvy. I think he is a fall guy, a puppet for the national who seems to repeat everything that he is told to say. I do not believe members are being too hard on him. He actually recomended the agreement and later said that it didn't happen. HUH??? That only shows how little respect he has for us.

 

As for our national if nothing else I have learned how greedy they are. Come Sept 17 those who negotated for us will still have jobs. I believe Ford has played thier role as expected, trying to reduce costs by all means but the union seems to only care about there long term income and if they have to give up a few members dues for the greater income so be it. But I also believe our dues for many years to come have been paid from that 400 mill meaning we are nothing to the CAW.

 

If they have nothing to hide then why not account for all the money??

 

I can almost hear Fluenza in the back ground saying "trust me brother I will look after it" then feeling the cold steel of a knife in my back.. But don't worry Ken you will still get your precious dues.

Edited June 18, 2011 by Stap guy

[Framer]

I see lots of 'beliefs' posted above but no facts. Because it is all just a fabric of lies for the gullible whiners to cry to each other about.

 

Some people will believe anything and then they will whine about what they believe.

 

I'm glad to see some of you go because working with chronic whiners and complainers is hard on all the good people that work at STAP.

[Cocheese]

I see lots of 'beliefs' posted above but no facts. Because it is all just a fabric of lies for the gullible whiners to cry to each other about.

 

Some people will believe anything and then they will whine about what they believe.

 

I'm glad to see some of you go because working with chronic whiners and complainers is hard on all the good people that work at STAP.

 

Then please Framer, tell us some facts to prove us wrong.

 

Oh wait, you don't have any facts either, but it is your "belief" that we are wrong.

 

Keep that mouth wide open Framer, it makes it easier for the CAW to shovel in their crap.

 

Pawn.

[Framer]

I have all the facts I need. The contract.

 

Try reading instead of making stuff up.

 

Some people would rather believe obvious lies instead of reading and using their brain, if they have one.

 

When this plant goes what will you whine about? Did someone else conspire against you?

 

Were you abducted by aliens?

 

 

I know. The whole world is against you and your mother did not love you

 

Pathetic whiners posting here make STAP workers look stupid to everyone.

 

 

 

.

[Pete]

I do not want to give anybody the impression that i am anti-union. I am not. All though the union has changed a lot in the time i been a member.

There are things that bother me.

 

The national already owns and sold (as far as i been told) "our" hall, that we (including all that retired) have paid for. That's after the national got there share of our dues. Not getting a cent out of the Hall...

Our local had 450,000 in the account last summer, when i told dennis that i will be looking for my share of whatever is left when we close down. He told me there wont be anything left. Guess he knew something i didn't and still don't.

Maybe the national already had it's hand on it. Not gonna get a cent from that either.

Here i been thinking all those years that it belongs to us, the membership.

 

Here is the way i see it as far as the 400 mill goes.

Ford had told our bargaining brass there was 400 mill ford are spending and it's up to the union, as to how they want to slice it up.

The union had input in how it was going to be divided.

The package monies are from the 400 mil, and ford will issue the cheque's. So, the union does not have it. Have they gotten any monies yet? Who knows.

As far as i know,

200 goes towards the severance packages.

200 towards the "action center". And that's what bothers me. Is it another property that will end up in the nationals hands? What exactly will it be for?..to tell us how to apply for EI ? Or to let us use there PC to look for a job online?

As of now, answers are slow in coming...nobody knows anything. What's the holdup?

All 400 mill should be divided, pro-rated amongst us.

Screw the "action center"

I don't see why the local or the national should in any way benefit from our plant closing.

It is OUR money!

Edited June 18, 2011 by Pete

[Cocheese]

I have all the facts I need. The contract.

 

Try reading instead of making stuff up.

 

Some people would rather believe obvious lies instead of reading and using their brain, if they have one.

 

When this plant goes what will you whine about? Did someone else conspire against you?

 

Were you abducted by aliens?

 

 

I know. The whole world is against you and your mother did not love you

 

Pathetic whiners posting here make STAP workers look stupid to everyone.

 

 

Oh. so the union told you, and so you believe them? You are a patsy aren't you.

 

Framer, you should be less concerned about what we will do once the CAW stops stealing from us every month, and start worrying about what you are going to do once your union rep doesn't tell you what to say and think.

 

The union decided how the money was to be spent. The union decided to sell the Hall, and where the proceeds will go. The union will decide where the left over money in the Local will go. The union sold out Local 1520.

 

Face the facts Framer, the people who you have followed blindly for so many years, are the same people who stuck that knife in your back.

 

Your beloved union screwed you, and they did so with a smile on their face. And worst of all, you thanked them for it.

[STAP130]

Are you saying the union would have no issues with how or why the company decided to split up the money?

 

From Day 1, I have always been under the impression that Ford agreed to a figure they negotiated with the CAW, and that it was the CAW who decided how it would be given out.

 

The CAW tries having their fingers in everything, what makes you think this is the first thing in the history of their existence that they decided not to be involved in?

 

Besides, if it was the company that decided this, you can be sure that any time someone complained about what the package is, Scott Smith or his minions would point out it was Ford that made the decisions. Since I have yet to hear that, I'll stick with my belief that it was the CAW who divided everything up.

 

Of course our union would have input. Yes they will "have their fingers in" our severance agreement. It's the obligation of our union to be involved in the process.

 

Would Ford let the CAW decide exactly how it would be distributed? Absolutely not.

 

When our union leadership stated at the ratification meeting, that there was $400M allocated to the closure of STAP, I had the distinct impression that this money was a cost to Ford which included our severance packages and a variety of other unnamed costs. I did not for a moment believe that there was $400M in cash to be handed to our local and divvied up among its members. $400M was an accounting total of a myriad of costs associated with the plant's closure.

 

I cannot believe, as many others do, that Ford will give the CAW tens of millions of dollars to use at their discretion. The cheques are most certainly not issued directly to Lewenza, McGee or Smith.

[Pete]

I see lots of 'beliefs' posted above but no facts. Because it is all just a fabric of lies for the gullible whiners to cry to each other about.

 

Some people will believe anything and then they will whine about what they believe.

 

I'm glad to see some of you go because working with chronic whiners and complainers is hard on all the good people that work at STAP.

Brother Framer

Being glad to see some of us go?

I stated earlier that i am a union supporter. If it wasn't for the union we would not have the wages and benefits and working conditions we have/ had. (before the 3 rounds of concessions)

(I remember working conditions when i started.....walk in the park now.)

That dosent mean that i put blind faith in the union. I know better. Over the years i have seen plenty of things our leadership done, that where not at all union-like. I seen them screw guys over and over. ( one good example would be Bill Gilmore)

Matter of fact, I got screwed over by our inplant union .Not in a small way either. It has cost me big bucks.

I wont go into detail on this forum, and you may not believe it. But sadly enough It's true.

I hope you are right in your believe that there is no wrong doing by our union at any level. See what happens.

 

Ohh.....i still think the Hall and 1520 assets belong to 1520 members and nobody else!!

Why do i get the feeling i am yet again being screwed over.....

Edited June 19, 2011 by Pete

[Cocheese]

Of course our union would have input. Yes they will "have their fingers in" our severance agreement. It's the obligation of our union to be involved in the process.

 

Would Ford let the CAW decide exactly how it would be distributed? Absolutely not.

 

When our union leadership stated at the ratification meeting, that there was $400M allocated to the closure of STAP, I had the distinct impression that this money was a cost to Ford which included our severance packages and a variety of other unnamed costs. I did not for a moment believe that there was $400M in cash to be handed to our local and divvied up among its members. $400M was an accounting total of a myriad of costs associated with the plant's closure.

 

I cannot believe, as many others do, that Ford will give the CAW tens of millions of dollars to use at their discretion. The cheques are most certainly not issued directly to Lewenza, McGee or Smith.

 

I do not believe the costs to close the plant are included in the $400 million. From how I understood it the day it was announced, and to this day, the $400M was to go to the workers. And while I don't think Ford has just handed over the cash to the CAW, I don't think they really care how it is spent either.

 

This whole thing could be put to rest if a detailed account of every penny would be released. But we all know that won't happen since it should be obvious to everyone that the CAW is up to something shady.

[Pete]

<BR>What do the bylaws and constitution say? Then what does labor law and real estate law say? <BR><BR>Do they consider the local a wholly owned subsidiary or something of the sort. And do you pay the national first and then the national pays the local like the UAW? <BR><BR>I am sure that there is something somewhere that addresses it. Find it and you'll know the answer.<BR>

 

Ohhh.....the bylaws and constitution....forgot about that.

 

Wonder if that apply' s to the 450 k in 1520's bank account too.

I already came to the conclusion that we wont see anything coming back from our union .

I wouldn't expect anything other then a pen handout at the meetings, if it wasn't for the plant closure.

Wonder if the bylaws and constitution include plant closure language.

I imagine it's being looked into.

 

I am a believer in the Union in general. It's what comes with it, we need to keep our eyes on. I witnessed many times ( not so much in recent past at all, but definitely years ago, ) when we had some of the "old" guys challenge and question Union actions, they pretty well got nailed to the cross by our leadership. Once again, i have to mention Bill Gilmore, but there where others. Some of you may know his history. For those that don't, he was the most honest and knowledgeable (regarding our contract, as well as our bylaws and constitution) guy we ever had . Our local basically crucified him and assisted the company in doing so. Why?...because he held the union accountable and simply asked to many questions, demanded to many answers and was a major pain in the unions butt. That was then.....not comparing with our present representation.

For those, that believe that everything our union does and says is true, right and just....not always the case!

Do we need the union? YES,absolutely!, but we should also question it and not just follow like a horde of sheep.

I apparently resorted to union bashing, which was not my intent when i originally replied to the OP.

Just wanted to say, there have been problems in the past and i DO hope our union will come out of this without any lumps and bruises

 

Still think Scott is a victim of the times...

Enough said.....

Edited June 21, 2011 by Pete