Facts on this so called "proposal"

[Ktp1989]

Ford contract would make concessions permanent!

 

The tentative Ford contract means this: Ford will give us a signing bonus of $6,000 (before taxes), plus four $1,500 bonuses (before taxes) and promises of profit-sharing. But we lose all the concessions we gave up. Everything that we want back, Ford said NO! NO! NO!

 

NO raises, NO COLA, NO performance bonuses, NO Christmas bonuses, NO Easter Monday holiday, NO return of lost break time. NO overtime after 8 hours. (Letter on back-up time doesn’t change this.)

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget about what happens later.

 

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first tier wages and benefits. The pay increase, spread over 4 years, barely makes up for what 2nd-tier workers lost in the 2009 concessions. The supposed 20% limit on 2nd-tier workers is filled with loopholes. The percentage of 2nd-tier workers will increase, meaning the threat of everyone being eventually reduced to 2nd-tier will increase.

 

The profit-sharing formula is supposed to be improved, by including North American operations instead of just the U.S. But what is to keep Ford from shifting profits around to hide them? Do you trust Ford? There is also a cap on profit-sharing when there didn't used to be one. And there is no guarantee of getting profit-sharing every year.

 

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

New retirees will take another hit because for the first contract ever, there is no increase in the 30-and-out pension. Current retirees’ Christmas bonus is taken away from them.

 

There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.

 

When the past concessions were taken away from us, they wanted us to believe that when the companies were reporting a profit again, we would get back what we gave up. It was all a lie.

 

They want us to accept that these concessions will be permanent. But we don’t have to stand by and watch our families’ standard of living be permanently reduced, while our bosses are the only ones who prosper from our hard work.

 

The Ford contract does have more upfront money than the GM contract. But let’s remember why it is more – because we voted “No” in 2009. It ‘s a good lesson to remember this time.

 

I’m voting “NO” and I ask you to vote “NO”!

[usedtobe898]

Ford contract would make concessions permanent!

 

The tentative Ford contract means this: Ford will give us a signing bonus of $6,000 (before taxes), plus four $1,500 bonuses (before taxes) and promises of profit-sharing. But we lose all the concessions we gave up. Everything that we want back, Ford said NO! NO! NO!

 

NO raises, NO COLA, NO performance bonuses, NO Christmas bonuses, NO Easter Monday holiday, NO return of lost break time. NO overtime after 8 hours. (Letter on back-up time doesn’t change this.)

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget about what happens later.

 

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first tier wages and benefits. The pay increase, spread over 4 years, barely makes up for what 2nd-tier workers lost in the 2009 concessions. The supposed 20% limit on 2nd-tier workers is filled with loopholes. The percentage of 2nd-tier workers will increase, meaning the threat of everyone being eventually reduced to 2nd-tier will increase.

 

The profit-sharing formula is supposed to be improved, by including North American operations instead of just the U.S. But what is to keep Ford from shifting profits around to hide them? Do you trust Ford? There is also a cap on profit-sharing when there didn't used to be one. And there is no guarantee of getting profit-sharing every year.

 

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

New retirees will take another hit because for the first contract ever, there is no increase in the 30-and-out pension. Current retirees’ Christmas bonus is taken away from them.

 

There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.

 

When the past concessions were taken away from us, they wanted us to believe that when the companies were reporting a profit again, we would get back what we gave up. It was all a lie.

 

They want us to accept that these concessions will be permanent. But we don’t have to stand by and watch our families’ standard of living be permanently reduced, while our bosses are the only ones who prosper from our hard work.

 

The Ford contract does have more upfront money than the GM contract. But let’s remember why it is more – because we voted “No” in 2009. It ‘s a good lesson to remember this time.

 

I’m voting “NO” and I ask you to vote “NO”!

im bringing my NO to the voting station Edited October 5, 2011 by usedtobe898

[Foxinsox]

This is all so disheartening...

 

I may have to vote NO also.

Edited October 5, 2011 by Foxinsox

[swhoosier]

Ford contract would make concessions permanent!

 

The tentative Ford contract means this: Ford will give us a signing bonus of $6,000 (before taxes), plus four $1,500 bonuses (before taxes) and promises of profit-sharing. But we lose all the concessions we gave up. Everything that we want back, Ford said NO! NO! NO!

 

NO raises, NO COLA, NO performance bonuses, NO Christmas bonuses, NO Easter Monday holiday, NO return of lost break time. NO overtime after 8 hours. (Letter on back-up time doesn’t change this.)

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget about what happens later.

 

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first tier wages and benefits. The pay increase, spread over 4 years, barely makes up for what 2nd-tier workers lost in the 2009 concessions. The supposed 20% limit on 2nd-tier workers is filled with loopholes. The percentage of 2nd-tier workers will increase, meaning the threat of everyone being eventually reduced to 2nd-tier will increase.

 

The profit-sharing formula is supposed to be improved, by including North American operations instead of just the U.S. But what is to keep Ford from shifting profits around to hide them? Do you trust Ford? There is also a cap on profit-sharing when there didn't used to be one. And there is no guarantee of getting profit-sharing every year.

 

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

New retirees will take another hit because for the first contract ever, there is no increase in the 30-and-out pension. Current retirees’ Christmas bonus is taken away from them.

 

There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.

 

When the past concessions were taken away from us, they wanted us to believe that when the companies were reporting a profit again, we would get back what we gave up. It was all a lie.

 

They want us to accept that these concessions will be permanent. But we don’t have to stand by and watch our families’ standard of living be permanently reduced, while our bosses are the only ones who prosper from our hard work.

 

The Ford contract does have more upfront money than the GM contract. But let’s remember why it is more – because we voted “No” in 2009. It ‘s a good lesson to remember this time.

 

I’m voting “NO” and I ask you to vote “NO”!

im with u,,,,,vote no

[Captain723]

Ford contract would make concessions permanent!

 

The tentative Ford contract means this: Ford will give us a signing bonus of $6,000 (before taxes), plus four $1,500 bonuses (before taxes) and promises of profit-sharing. But we lose all the concessions we gave up. Everything that we want back, Ford said NO! NO! NO!

 

NO raises, NO COLA, NO performance bonuses, NO Christmas bonuses, NO Easter Monday holiday, NO return of lost break time. NO overtime after 8 hours. (Letter on back-up time doesn’t change this.)

 

First tier autoworkers lost up to $30,000 in concessions over the last few years. Now Ford wants to continue these concessions for another 4 years. At what cost to us? Lose another $30,000? All for $12,000 in bonuses? No raises for 4 more years, after we have already waited 6 years?

They give us 2011 profit-sharing this November – by taking it away from next March’s money – hoping we will jump at the money now and forget about what happens later.

 

The biggest concession is that 2-tier will continue.

This contract does not bring up the 2nd-tier workers up to first tier. This contract keeps them permanent 2nd-tier, with no path to move up to first tier wages and benefits. The pay increase, spread over 4 years, barely makes up for what 2nd-tier workers lost in the 2009 concessions. The supposed 20% limit on 2nd-tier workers is filled with loopholes. The percentage of 2nd-tier workers will increase, meaning the threat of everyone being eventually reduced to 2nd-tier will increase.

 

The profit-sharing formula is supposed to be improved, by including North American operations instead of just the U.S. But what is to keep Ford from shifting profits around to hide them? Do you trust Ford? There is also a cap on profit-sharing when there didn't used to be one. And there is no guarantee of getting profit-sharing every year.

 

This contract makes us pay for what Ford did not put into the VEBA. The VEBA is underfunded because Ford only put in 57% of what was needed for retiree health care. Retirees are paying more out of pocket. Instead of making Ford pay for their obligations, this contract would take 10% of any profit-sharing we might get to put into the VEBA.

 

New retirees will take another hit because for the first contract ever, there is no increase in the 30-and-out pension. Current retirees’ Christmas bonus is taken away from them.

 

There are promises of new jobs. But remember the 2007 contract where Ford promised to save 10,000 jobs – instead we lost 17,300 jobs. If you look closely at the promises of jobs, it is mostly work that Ford was going to do anyway.

 

When the past concessions were taken away from us, they wanted us to believe that when the companies were reporting a profit again, we would get back what we gave up. It was all a lie.

 

They want us to accept that these concessions will be permanent. But we don’t have to stand by and watch our families’ standard of living be permanently reduced, while our bosses are the only ones who prosper from our hard work.

 

The Ford contract does have more upfront money than the GM contract. But let’s remember why it is more – because we voted “No” in 2009. It ‘s a good lesson to remember this time.

 

I’m voting “NO” and I ask you to vote “NO”!

I love this site, but I love educated members better. So let me help educate you young man....

 

1st we didn't get concessions back yet from 2009, but that doesn't mean because of that this agreement is a concession, just means we didn't get it back. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

2nd Cola, I thought that there was some form of Cola in this agreement with inflation protection....what I get out of that....is a bonus of $1500 every year...not sure on exact language yet, but I bet I am pretty close, but just be aware there are not many companys that give any form of cola!!

 

3rd Profit sharing early, yes we are geting the first 2 quarters as I understand it early..what does this mean?? If the company losing money if the remaining questers we get it up front, so the loss doesn't effect what we get in advance of the normal payout period. With the European an other markets tanking we may be looking at another economic down fall and if this happens the entire year would get calcualted on an average basis.....so that is a good thing...we didn't give anything up, just getting it early to protect against something happening.

 

4th 2nd tier, again as I have shared in the past these jobs were supposed to be outsourced, and IUAW negotiated with the company a 2nd tier to keep them in-house, otherwise, there would be no 2nd tier they would just be outside contractors paying $9-$12 per hour.

 

5th As far as Ford hiding money, they simplified the formula looks like to say whatever their earnings tha they report out (publically traded and illegal to alter) finacial earnings. If Ford makes 3 billion the average profit sharing is $3k...pretty simply and again it is their annual earnings based on all of Norht America.

 

6th Retiree Health Care and Pension. We currently have about 5 retirees to every worker. Because of the $ which provided retirees a Bonus (Christmas) was originally to help pay for increases in health care palnd. This money was taken out of the pension fund, because the pension fund is currently underfunded it would wrong to take money that is no there or which would add to the shortfall. Becasue there are about 5 retirees to every worker this would cost an average of $3750 per worker in order to give because it can not be taken out of the pension fund anymore. Not to mention that the court ruling says that the UAW can not bargain for retiree benefits/Pensions anymore. They can talk about it, but that is all. If the company chooses not to want to talk about there is nothing the UAW can do!

 

7th the Veba, grab a paper and read, our republican held government is attacking the workers of America and their rights to bargain. the UAW secured money for retiree health care that would maintain their service. If it were up to the company they would have reduced or cut off health care and forced them to fend for themselves.

My mom and dad thank you UAW for you have given them and what you continue to get for them from the company!

Edited October 5, 2011 by Captain723

[Avenger]

I love this site, but I love educated members better. So let me help educate you young man....

 

1st we didn't get concessions back yet from 2009, but that doesn't mean because of that this agreement is a concession, just means we didn't get it back. Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

2nd Cola, I thought that there was some form of Cola in this agreement with inflation protection....what I get out of that....is a bonus of $1500 every year...not sure on exact language yet, but I bet I am pretty close, but just be aware there are not many companys that give any form of cola!!

 

3rd Profit sharing early, yes we are geting the first 2 quarters as I understand it early..what does this mean?? If the company losing money if the remaining questers we get it up front, so the loss doesn't effect what we get in advance of the normal payout period. With the European an other markets tanking we may be looking at another economic down fall and if this happens the entire year would get calcualted on an average basis.....so that is a good thing...we didn't give anything up, just getting it early to protect against something happening.

 

4th 2nd tier, again as I have shared in the past these jobs were supposed to be outsourced, and IUAW negotiated with the company a 2nd tier to keep them in-house, otherwise, there would be no 2nd tier they would just be outside contractors paying $9-$12 per hour.

 

5th As far as Ford hiding money, they simplified the formula looks like to say whatever their earnings tha they report out (publically traded and illegal to alter) finacial earnings. If Ford makes 3 billion the average profit sharing is $3k...pretty simply and again it is their annual earnings based on all of Norht America.

 

6th Retiree Health Care and Pension. We currently have about 5 retirees to every worker. Because of the $ which provided retirees a Bonus (Christmas) was originally to help pay for increases in health care palnd. This money was taken out of the pension fund, because the pension fund is currently underfunded it would wrong to take money that is no there or which would add to the shortfall. Becasue there are about 5 retirees to every worker this would cost an average of $3750 per worker in order to give because it can not be taken out of the pension fund anymore. Not to mention that the court ruling says that the UAW can not bargain for retiree benefits/Pensions anymore. They can talk about it, but that is all. If the company chooses not to want to talk about there is nothing the UAW can do!

 

7th the Veba, grab a paper and read, our republican held government is attacking the workers of America and their rights to bargain. the UAW secured money for retiree health care that would maintain their service. If it were up to the company they would have reduced or cut off health care and forced them to fend for themselves.

My mom and dad thank you UAW for you have given them and what you continue to get for them from the company!

 

 

Thanks Captain. It is true we have given up a lot in the past when the economy was bad. Just ask anyone who was around in the early 1980s. My dad thought it was over, we were done. The union gave concessions. You know what? We got them all back and more. It just took a litle time. By the mid 1990s we were way ahead compared to the early 1980s. This is a great first step.