Noah Harbinger Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Someone posted that they heard that there was a delay putting the 3.5L in the Five Hundred, and that its not going in until a year after the refresh -- which given model years and the '08 Five Hundred's expected Spring launch, probably would mean a year and half. Is there anyone here who can unequivocally state that rumor is untrue, as of current/recent information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickF1011 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I can't refute it, but if it IS true, Ford's screwing the pooch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrod Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 The Job 1 date for Cleveland Engine Plant 1 to start cranking out the new 3.5 liter Duratec has been moved up from April, 2007 to late November or early December, 2006. Our engineers told us that Job 1 was moved up because Lima, which currently builds the 3.5 is having some major issues. What those issues are and if it is even true I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 this would be utterly disastrous, if the Five Hundred were not to get the D35 until 2009MY... However a september Job1 still leaves plenty time for regular 2008 Launch - but not an early launch as expected .. Secondly - I was expecting all pre-summer 2007 need for the engine being satisfied by Lima .. not Cleveland.. Oh well this will be interesting. Igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FStephenMasek Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 (edited) When I ordered my Edge, the fleet guy told me he had just returned from sales training on the Edge, and that they were told it would be two years before the 3.5 was in the Five Hundred. However, I wonder if this is just another example of the confusion over calendar vs model year? They are still selling 2006 Five Hundreds, but I thought that the 2008 Five Hundred, due out early in 2007, would have the 3.5. Edited July 26, 2006 by FStephenMasek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nibyak Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I can understand why the delay in the launch of newer bigger engine is not good for Ford, but I don't understand the need for it in the 500/Freestyle. I bought a 2006 Freestyle in late January 2006. I drive over 180 miles each weekday and this car is not lacking in power. I understand that more power is better but I have never felt like I was in danger of being run over because I didn't have enough umph to get out of the way. I also own a 2000 Focus and know what not enough power feels like. I have the AWD Freestyle with the CVT and it hauls ass. I drive every mile of I-66 in Virginia from the hills near West Virginia until I cross over the bride into DC. I've never understood why the Freestyle wasn't and still isn't really advertised by Ford but I think it needs better PR way more than it needs a better engine. The 3 liter does rev pretty high and makes a good amount of noise when you're on the gas and I'm sure thats a big negative with a lot of people. After 25,000 miles I'm used to it revving up when you floor it. I also want to get another car with the CVT, probably a 500. All of the other manufacturers (Imports) are really pushing their CVTs as the transmission of the future, but Ford has plans to close down their only plant that manufactures them. I just don't understand. I know that you can't tow anything with the current Freestyle, but if I wanted to tow I would have bought an SUV or a Truck not a Station Wagon (traded the 2003 Ranger in on the Freestyle). My Freestyle is the nicest Car I've ever owned and thanks for building it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 I can understand why the delay in the launch of newer bigger engine is not good for Ford, but I don't understand the need for it in the 500/Freestyle. I bought a 2006 Freestyle in late January 2006. I drive over 180 miles each weekday and this car is not lacking in power. I understand that more power is better but I have never felt like I was in danger of being run over because I didn't have enough umph to get out of the way. I also own a 2000 Focus and know what not enough power feels like. I have the AWD Freestyle with the CVT and it hauls ass. I drive every mile of I-66 in Virginia from the hills near West Virginia until I cross over the bride into DC. I've never understood why the Freestyle wasn't and still isn't really advertised by Ford but I think it needs better PR way more than it needs a better engine. The 3 liter does rev pretty high and makes a good amount of noise when you're on the gas and I'm sure thats a big negative with a lot of people. After 25,000 miles I'm used to it revving up when you floor it. I also want to get another car with the CVT, probably a 500. All of the other manufacturers (Imports) are really pushing their CVTs as the transmission of the future, but Ford has plans to close down their only plant that manufactures them. I just don't understand. I know that you can't tow anything with the current Freestyle, but if I wanted to tow I would have bought an SUV or a Truck not a Station Wagon (traded the 2003 Ranger in on the Freestyle). My Freestyle is the nicest Car I've ever owned and thanks for building it. I've heard plenty of owners say it's got enough power... actually come to think of it I only remember people with the CVT having said that... which won't be available without AWD next year. (I'm in San Diego, I don't need AWD...) Isn't Nissan the only other company using CVTs in its non-hybrid products? But regardless, it would be really nice to have that much power in a large sedan... and I'm going to buy a car with that much power, even if it means buying a Furr'n car. I'd just like to know now whether it's worth waiting for next year's Five Hundred, or if I should jump ship now. (My old car is having a few problems and I don't really want to be the one holding the keys when it dies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Noah, I would jump the ship ... you are likely looking at another 12 mopnths before this car hits the showrooms .... the styling will be better, and the engine will be niceer, but is it worth the risk of your car dying on you before then? I do not think so PS: about CVT .. Dodge uses them in the caliber .. but Nissan is the only one who is not being given slack of it .. I do not know whethertheir CVT is so much better than DCX or Ford ... ? Igor Edited July 28, 2006 by igor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted August 1, 2006 Share Posted August 1, 2006 (edited) I've posted many times about how we think our Montego with 6 speed AISIN auto has more than enough power for it's use. And I'm an old hot rodder who still enjoys muscle cars. I occasionally drive my 2003 Mach 1, so know what power feels like (before that had a 500 RWHP supercharged 98 Cobra). So we could care less about more power in our Montego. You may notice the only people who complain about lack of the 3.5 are those who don't own one. Our Montego with 6 speed auto is as quick (or quicker maybe) than a 4 speed auto Taurus with same engine. Far quicker than Vulcan engine 3.0 Taurus. Quicker than my 4.6 2002 Explorer. The Five Hundred/Montego is a nice all around package....if you are looking for this kind of vehicle. Edited August 1, 2006 by Ralph Greene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted August 2, 2006 Author Share Posted August 2, 2006 I've posted many times about how we think our Montego with 6 speed AISIN auto has more than enough power for it's use. And I'm an old hot rodder who still enjoys muscle cars. I occasionally drive my 2003 Mach 1, so know what power feels like (before that had a 500 RWHP supercharged 98 Cobra). So we could care less about more power in our Montego. You may notice the only people who complain about lack of the 3.5 are those who don't own one. Our Montego with 6 speed auto is as quick (or quicker maybe) than a 4 speed auto Taurus with same engine. Far quicker than Vulcan engine 3.0 Taurus. Quicker than my 4.6 2002 Explorer. The Five Hundred/Montego is a nice all around package....if you are looking for this kind of vehicle. And I've heard you say it many many times too... I took a test drive on a Five Hundred, and everything seemed nice, except... while I wouldn't say it felt sluggish per say, it just didn't seem to have a lot of pep. So, a 31% improvement in power coupled with VCT to improve low-end torque (which I would assume is doubly important given the transmission's propensity to stay in fairly high gears), all the while delivering, what is it, a 3MPG improvement in fuel economy? That's nothing to be sneezed at. Also, I don't have the money to buy a weekend car, nor the skill to overhaul a 'classic' car... so I'd like my daily driver to feel like it can move when I want it to, even if it will never be anywhere near as sporty as your Mach 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted August 2, 2006 Share Posted August 2, 2006 And I've heard you say it many many times too... I took a test drive on a Five Hundred, and everything seemed nice, except... while I wouldn't say it felt sluggish per say, it just didn't seem to have a lot of pep. So, a 31% improvement in power coupled with VCT to improve low-end torque (which I would assume is doubly important given the transmission's propensity to stay in fairly high gears), all the while delivering, what is it, a 3MPG improvement in fuel economy? That's nothing to be sneezed at. Also, I don't have the money to buy a weekend car, nor the skill to overhaul a 'classic' car... so I'd like my daily driver to feel like it can move when I want it to, even if it will never be anywhere near as sporty as your Mach 1. Well....As I have posted before....The auto trans does a good job of keeping RPM low for fuel economy....so it will feel sluggish...unless you kick it in the butt some. Then it's OK. But this may not be the car for you. Sounds like you wish more a "sports" sedan. Like Maxima or something. Fusion/Milan with 3.5 etc. Ford doesn't have something for everyone...unfortunately. My mother in laws Premier Milan is nice car also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Harbinger Posted August 4, 2006 Author Share Posted August 4, 2006 Well....As I have posted before....The auto trans does a good job of keeping RPM low for fuel economy....so it will feel sluggish...unless you kick it in the butt some. Then it's OK. But this may not be the car for you. Sounds like you wish more a "sports" sedan. Like Maxima or something. Fusion/Milan with 3.5 etc. Ford doesn't have something for everyone...unfortunately. My mother in laws Premier Milan is nice car also. I would very likely go with a 3.5 Milan - it looks and feels nice -- but it sounds like the 3.5 won't be an option until MY2009... But basically, with the 3.5 the Five Hundred or Montego would be everything I want in a car.... which is why I'll be sad if the engine doesn't make it in. The Maxima is assembled domestically, so it is an option in my book, at least. It does bother me that it says, "For maximum power, use premium fuel," like the Camry/Avalon V6.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Greene Posted August 4, 2006 Share Posted August 4, 2006 Yes....The Toyota and Nissan 3.5 is tuned for 91, and knock sensors pull power at WOT on 87. BTW....The Mustang GT, advertised at 300 HP, will make a tad more power on dyno with 91. I've seen this. So it's tuned the same. It's tuned for 91, with sensors pulling timing on 87. No problem. Modern electronics are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoom Posted August 13, 2006 Share Posted August 13, 2006 And I've heard you say it many many times too... I took a test drive on a Five Hundred, and everything seemed nice, except... while I wouldn't say it felt sluggish per say, it just didn't seem to have a lot of pep. So, a 31% improvement in power coupled with VCT to improve low-end torque (which I would assume is doubly important given the transmission's propensity to stay in fairly high gears), all the while delivering, what is it, a 3MPG improvement in fuel economy? That's nothing to be sneezed at. Also, I don't have the money to buy a weekend car, nor the skill to overhaul a 'classic' car... so I'd like my daily driver to feel like it can move when I want it to, even if it will never be anywhere near as sporty as your Mach 1. No CVT for any model after 2007MY Ford is dropping the continuously variable transmission offered in the Ford Freestyle, Five Hundred and Mercury Montego at the end of the 2007 model year. Reasons: (1) the 3.5 produces to much torque for the current CVT to handle (2) The CVT is made by Ford at its Batavia Ohio plant which is scheduled to close in 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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