davdog: My reply on an autoworker's $$ worth

[Trimdingman]

When I started at Ford, apparently we were underpaid, because they were quitting faster than Ford could hire them. It takes a special breed to work on an automotive assembly line. I am no pussy. I have worked in steel. I have dug clams in the winter. Try that sometime. I have moved furniture. I have picked tobacco, just to name a few. The assembly line is the hardest job that I ever did, by far. I ONLY did it for the money. Some jobs on the line are not physically challenging. It is just the mind-numbing monotony of doing the same thing over, and over, and over. The line is your boss. When it runs, you run. If not for the high wages, it would be compared to slavery. People with low seniority get jobs that are not only monotonous, but also heavy. I have seen women put on jobs that most men could not do. They wrecked their bodies to make big bucks. All outsiders look at is how much we make an hour. Could you install 70 car dashes (IPs-instrument panels) in an hour?

Edited December 24, 2006 by Trimdingman

[davdog]

When I started at Ford, apparently we were underpaid, because they were quitting faster than Ford could hire them. It takes a special breed to work on an automotive assembly line. I am no pussy. I have worked in steel. I have dug clams in the winter. Try that sometime. I have moved furniture. I have picked tobacco, just to name a few. The assembly line is the hardest job that I ever did, by far. I ONLY did it for the money. Some jobs on the line are not physically challenging. It is just the mind-numbing monotony of doing the same thing over, and over, and over. The line is your boss. When it runs, you run. If not for the high wages, it would be compared to slavery. People with low seniority get jobs that are not only monotonous, but also heavy. I have seen women put on jobs that most men could not do. They wrecked their bodies to make big bucks. All outsiders look at is how much we make an hour. Could you install 70 car dashes (IPs-instrument panels) in an hour?

 

 

I'm not disputing anything you say, I am simply asking how does anyone know what size carrot it would take.

[gbg49229]

I'm not disputing anything you say, I am simply asking how does anyone know what size carrot it would take.

I never heard a answer to what youre market wage is? The reason you are at ford is because you make more $$$ then other places otherwise you would leave right?

[wildosvt]

mine too!!!

 

And i'm just wondering how everyone feels about the ach plants also deserving these outragous wages?????

 

 

Its funny you mention this. We have had over half of our temps already quit. They said for 14 and hour they can stick it!

 

Do not speak, Of what you do not know.

[tcap for now]

I'm not disputing anything you say, I am simply asking how does anyone know what size carrot it would take.

 

through contract negotiations is how its decided. despite how it sounds coming from both sides, NO automaker would agree to a contract they could not make money on. just as the uaw would not ask for a contract that would break the company. both would be foolish. look at the way top execs in the big three spend and squander cash. thats money that could go into product development and research. had they done that years ago we would have products to compete with. now we will all be forced to give up something. the union will be asked to sacrifice first. not to save money but to make it look good to shareholders. shareholders and people on the outside can visualise 38,000 people no longer recieving checks. they cant visualize the really long ladder of management or corporate waste or lack of efficeincy.

 

with the 38,000 people leaving ford, they still say there will not be a profit till 2009 or 2010. but almost everyone taking a buyout will be gone in early 2007. so even with us gone they cant make money. thus we are not the root of the problem. it will take till 2009 to get a couple of new models out and selling.

the edge and new superduty for 2007, in the next year or so we might get a new focus. and a refreshed fusion, f-150 and 500. maybe in mid 2009 at the soonest to mid 2010 we could get an an all new vehicle or two. you can plainly see that 4 or 5 new and updated vehicles is what they need to make a profit. not less workers at less pay. we just arent that big of an impact on cost. we are just more visible.

 

workers at the non union plants in the south are following the same carrots we are. their wages and benefits are close to ours to keep them from trying to be union. the companies have and will admit it. without our pay and benefits an assembly plant would have a turnover rate higher than fast food. high turnover hurts quality and production.

[sept68]

I think I know where davdog is coming from. A good way tell how much a laborer is worth is by determining what they have to sacrifice to get a paycheck. What are the possible sacrifices? Backbreaking work? Boredom or monotony? Remoteness of the job? Family obligations? Long term health consequences? Skill and education requirements? Most would agree that the ultimate sacrifice is death risk. Using this criteria many occupations should be paid much more than the average line worker but are not. Those ranks include soldiers, taxi drivers, truck drivers, roofers, and commercial fishermen. The reason a unionized autoworker is worth what they are is due the bargaining agreement which is outside normal market forces. I am happy that UAW workers got what they got for as long as they got. However, the sad reality is that many who left the job before retirement will not come close to the same compensation package without serious retraining or education. This includes a majority of Ford born n' bred tradesmen who's J-card may not be worth what they think it is.

[Trimdingman]

The discipline learned working on the line places ex-autoworkers at the head of the pack as prospective employees. Commercial fishermen were also mentioned. They make good wages, too. When we see them on land, they look like a bunch of rowdy drunks. Out at sea, however, it is a different story. They take more risks than police, firemen, or soldiers. Working in a factory is also very dangerous. That is why safety is preached all the time. Many are killed and maimed every year. We buy a lot of new cars, probably proportionately more than the general public. Maybe the little extra that we earn over and above what it would take to prevent us from quitting is seed money. We buy the new cars first. People see the new cars around; then they buy them, and so on, and so on, and so on, like the commericial.

 

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Edited December 24, 2006 by Trimdingman

[gbg49229]

through contract negotiations is how its decided. despite how it sounds coming from both sides, NO automaker would agree to a contract they could not make money on. just as the uaw would not ask for a contract that would break the company. both would be foolish. look at the way top execs in the big three spend and squander cash. thats money that could go into product development and research. had they done that years ago we would have products to compete with. now we will all be forced to give up something. the union will be asked to sacrifice first. not to save money but to make it look good to shareholders. shareholders and people on the outside can visualise 38,000 people no longer recieving checks. they cant visualize the really long ladder of management or corporate waste or lack of efficeincy.

 

with the 38,000 people leaving ford, they still say there will not be a profit till 2009 or 2010. but almost everyone taking a buyout will be gone in early 2007. so even with us gone they cant make money. thus we are not the root of the problem. it will take till 2009 to get a couple of new models out and selling.

the edge and new superduty for 2007, in the next year or so we might get a new focus. and a refreshed fusion, f-150 and 500. maybe in mid 2009 at the soonest to mid 2010 we could get an an all new vehicle or two. you can plainly see that 4 or 5 new and updated vehicles is what they need to make a profit. not less workers at less pay. we just arent that big of an impact on cost. we are just more visible.

 

workers at the non union plants in the south are following the same carrots we are. their wages and benefits are close to ours to keep them from trying to be union. the companies have and will admit it. without our pay and benefits an assembly plant would have a turnover rate higher than fast food. high turnover hurts quality and production.

The other thing you have to realize is that toyota, kia ect have figured out that when they build a car the more common the parts are the less quaility problems you will have, toyota has 3 alternators in all of there cars, Ford has over 25. this adds change over time and quaility issues and many other problems! The same is true for new models, the new toyota has a average of 27 NEW products on it, Ford avg is over 100 new items which adds price and headache in everything they make! They also say that toyota has a avg of 28 hours in each car they make, Ford has a avg of 36 which is improving ALOT as of recent. at any rate I keep hearing people bitch about "market wages" but many people in managment are making above that with the amount of WORK that they actully do! If they could make more else where thats where they would be! its funny that the people on this board that bitch about market wage make, over what they should do......ie the pot calling the kettle black! any way Merry Christmas all

[sept68]

The discipline learned working on the line places ex-autoworkers at the head of the pack as prospective employees.

 

You are kidding... right? Don't know about Michigan but in Ohio autoworkers have a bad rep because a very small but visible minority. I blame management and to an extent the UAW for that. Fired workers who committed offenses so damaging should have never been allowed back into the membership. At a minimum, they should be forced to start again as new hires. Its the good workers that tend to get on.

 

Commercial fishermen were also mentioned. They make good wages, too. When we see them on land, they look like a bunch of rowdy drunks. Out at sea, however, it is a different story. They take more risks than police, firemen, or soldiers. Working in a factory is also very dangerous. That is why safety is preached all the time. Many are killed and maimed every year.

 

I agree factory work was once extremely danger. This is no longer the case. The heavy focus on safety do to union and company efforts has made the auto industry one of the safest industries around. Very clear when you look at the actual death and injury statistics.

 

In order, the most dangerous jobs in the US are:

Logging

Aircraft pilots

Commercial fishing

Structural iron and steel working

Scrap yards

Farming/ranching

Roofing

Power line install and repairing

Truck driving and traveling sales

Taxis

[TCAP'er]

When I started at Ford, apparently we were underpaid, because they were quitting faster than Ford could hire them. It takes a special breed to work on an automotive assembly line. I am no pussy. I have worked in steel. I have dug clams in the winter. Try that sometime. I have moved furniture. I have picked tobacco, just to name a few. The assembly line is the hardest job that I ever did, by far. I ONLY did it for the money. Some jobs on the line are not physically challenging. It is just the mind-numbing monotony of doing the same thing over, and over, and over. The line is your boss. When it runs, you run. If not for the high wages, it would be compared to slavery. People with low seniority get jobs that are not only monotonous, but also heavy. I have seen women put on jobs that most men could not do. They wrecked their bodies to make big bucks. All outsiders look at is how much we make an hour. Could you install 70 car dashes (IPs-instrument panels) in an hour?

 

Being there and done that (for 8 years), I absolutety agreeded with your statement above and then some. Those MORONS that has obsolutely no clues what the automotive line workers going through everyday, every minute, every entraping second, every monotony mind fucking numbling though..etc..and the list go on and on. My hat off to evryones of you, you had my TOTAL respect and admirations FOREVER!!!!!. Eventhough, I'm no longer working on the line, and with Ford (had move on to skill side for over 10 years ), and NEVER intend to return, NOT even FUCKEN for $100 an hour.

[06StangAwesomecar]

 

 

 

toyota has 3 alternators in all of there cars, Ford has over 25. this adds change over time and quaility issues and many other problems! The same is true for new models, the new toyota has a average of 27 NEW products on it, Ford avg is over 100 new items which adds price and headache in everything they make! They also say that toyota has a avg of 28 hours in each car they make, Ford has a avg of 36 which is improving ALOT as of recent.

 

 

No offense but where do you get these figures from? 25 alternators, from where? Rawsonville makes the majority, and I have never seen 19 extra alternators.

 

And hey davedog, I have been offered 2 jobs making more per hr then Ford is paying me now. If it does not work out for me sticking around at Ford. And yes I am a skilled traded person. So I guess my market wage is just right.

Edited December 24, 2006 by 06StangAwesomecar

[gbg49229]

The other thing you have to realize is that toyota, kia ect have figured out that when they build a car the more common the parts are the less quaility problems you will have, toyota has 3 alternators in all of there cars, Ford has over 25. this adds change over time and quaility issues and many other problems! The same is true for new models, the new toyota has a average of 27 NEW products on it, Ford avg is over 100 new items which adds price and headache in everything they make! They also say that toyota has a avg of 28 hours in each car they make, Ford has a avg of 36 which is improving ALOT as of recent. at any rate I keep hearing people bitch about "market wages" but many people in managment are making above that with the amount of WORK that they actully do! If they could make more else where thats where they would be! its funny that the people on this board that bitch about market wage make, over what they should do......ie the pot calling the kettle black! any way Merry Christmas all

hmm, If you where to talk to people down in test and pack, that is who have told me that there was that many alt, people have said it in several meetings to. I know we have many models of etbs for a fact! that is just a couple items on the engine that we make, im sure there are many more to follow suit as far as parts go.