bifs66

" The 1969-70 351W with a 4V was rated at 290 hp. It was seen as reduntant after the 4V Cleveland hit the scene" I bought a new, 290HP Mach-I with an automatic trans in 1969, and ran it right off the showroom floor at Capital Raceway. Even though I was a total novice at drag racing, the car ran a 14.8 sec quarter mile, which was as good as most "stock" performance cars did back then. The Cleveland had even more potential; and incurred numerous restrictions through the years in order to keep the SBC competitive. Technically, every NASCAR engine today can trace its general architecture to the Ford Windsor/Cleveland design. Furthermore, the LS series is more a descendant of the Windsor than any classic SBC.

A couple of items that I thought were interesting regarding the GT350R-C race Mustang. IMSA requires a 58mm diameter restrictor in front of the production car's 87mm throttle body which really hindered their top speed. Also, the header bolts failed during the last race. This is the only mechanical issue to show up so far; and was attributed to the kind of vibrations generated by the FPC engine.

Some may argue that the shape of the new GT lacks the classic lines of the GT-40; however, it had to be changed to incorporate new technology so that it can compete in today's racing environment. Likewise, the engine choice is a product of current rules, power, size, weight, availability, dependability, and time constraints. While some may argue that it is all about "ecoboost" advertising, I think it is all about winning; and this engine has repeatedly been reliable in 24 hrs. endurance races. The sound of the engine may be foreign and not as sweet as a V8; but it is the sound of performance dictated by engineering. Sort of a "function over form" thing.

We get from your numerous post on this issue that you "don't see it". After following motorsports as a Ford fan for over 50yrs, I have seen bias against Ford at many levels. GM has literally owned numerous racing series for decades for many reasons. Every so often a Ford team, an engine, or a car will come along and upset the apple cart. Typically, the heavy investment in GM hardware will cause pressure on a sanctioning body to "slow" the Fords down or outright ban them. Given past history, maybe you can understand why we Ford guys are sensitive to having weight added to the new GT350R after only one win. Regardless, it will never be known whether the Z28-R or the GT350-R makes the best race car as this will mostly be decided by manipulating the rules.

As best I can tell, the Camaro had won three IMSA Continental Tire races this year; while the the Mustang had won one race. I read where IMSA added weight to the Mustang after one win! Anyone remember our previous discussion regarding IMSA slowing the Mustangs down? I suppose we will never know whether the GT350 is a technically better car under competition as rules, not performance determine such things. However, even after adding weight, the Mustang won another race yesterday at Lime Rock Park. Why don't IMSA just add an anchor to the Mustang's rear bumper. Anyone know whether the additional weight ruling was in fact true (I read about it on the internet)? Perhaps I'm worked up over nothing.

As I recall, Trans-AM engine size was limited to 305 cu. in; and power was determined by the design of the engine. Ford had a better designed head in the 1969/1970 Boss 302. Obviously, fuel economy, emissions, and CAFE have severely trimmed an 1970's "unlimited" Ford 302 cu. in. Boss engine from a high of 290 HP to a current puny 500+ HP. I'm little skeptical of the "it's entertainment, not an engineering contest" comment. I think there is a little more to the engineering side of the equation.

I don't see what emissions or CAFE has anything to do with the discussion. If the cars are production based, then all the competitors have to operate under the same standards. That's great...let whatever manufacturer has a better handle on the technology be the fastest. If IRS, or OHC, or a FPC is better, it will show up in the winner's circle. That's the way to settle endless discussions on what engineering practices are superior. However, if one company invests the money and engineering to produce a better performing vehicle, why should it be penalized until it's equal to less refined competitors. Regardless, the Continental Tire series is the best thing going in terms of "stock" cars.

Time will tell. I guess I'd really like to see is something like the old Trans-AM series with the Mustangs, Camaros, Mopars, etc. running pretty much production stuff with a limit of 305 cu. in. It was a 305 chevy against a 305 Ford, a 305 Pontiac, a 305 AMC, and a 305 Mopar. You saw tunnel port Fords (not too successful), canted valve Fords, tunnel port Pontiacs, etc. I don't remember them adding weight or restricting an engine design that proved superior. Obviously, the IMSA Continental Tire series is close to the old Trans-Am series except for manipulating the competitiveness of the entries.

The Camaro teams can win race after race; but let a Ford win a couple in a row and rules will be changed. Those of us who have followed NASCAR for more than 30 yrs. can attest to it. NHRA did it to Bob Glidden too. What good is it to develop significant technical advances if the sanctioning body nullifies them? I can see some merit in leveling the playing field (though I don't like it) ; but why are the rules typically changed when Fords are winning. When the OHV engines took over from the Flatheads, I don't remember any equivalency formulas in any forms of motorsports. When Ford built a pushrod engine (version of the SBF) for Indy in 1963, there were no special provisions for it to compete with the OHC Offys. Anyone remember that stock car series from several years ago, where you had to run a Chevy engine no matter what make of car was fielded?

Not so fast... You may have been looking at last years race results from Mosport. Actually, the No. 158 Mustang GT350R-C won its first race today! A Porche 911 was 2nd and the Camaro Z28R was 3rd. I can feel a rules change coming.

The two Mustang GT350R-Cs are racing in the IMSA Continental Tire race at Mosport today. They were 1-2 in qualifying, with the pole being a new track record.

It looks like the GT350R-C Mustangs came in 4th and 7th in their first taste of competition. It will be interesting to hear what the teams have to say about the new cars.

So far so good.....The #15 Mustang GT350R-C has captured the pole for the Continental Tire IMSA race tomorrow at Watkins Glen.

The new 2016 Mustang GT350R will officially complete in the Continental Tire SportsCar Challenge IMSA race this coming weekend. Ford announced that two Mustangs will be entered in the GS class. This will be interesting to see if they can back up all the hype with performance in actual competition. Stand by for a "rules change" if they are too competitive.

If I'm not mistaken, Ford has made an effort to encourage hot rodders to put a Ford engine in their rods. This was several years ago; and I'm not sure they have continued the program. Of course, they meant the OHV SBF. I think there was hardware like a stub-nosed water pump to reduce the overall length of the SBF; headers, rear sump oil pans, etc. They also advertised in numerous hot-rodder magazines; and had special awards for Ford powered rods. The SBF is about 6" narrower, and is significantly lighter than the SBC; but I guess that is lost on the fixation with the SBC. Of course, there is nothing like the bark of a flathead sitting between the rails.

How true. I've had the impression that the Cobra Jets have been more or less dominate in the "Factory Stock" classes ever since they came on the scene several years ago. It was often said....just wait for the factory COPO Camaros and Mopars to arrive. I think they did arrive some time ago; yet the Cobra Jets continue to win. No doubt something will be done to make the poor GM and Mopar cars fare better (as was done to Bob Glidden back in the day when he had to run 200-300 more lbs.)

As far as Ford Performance goes..don't forget the factory Cobra Jet Mustangs in drag racing. They won Factory Stock Showdown this past weekend at Englishtown, N.J. This was the third consecutive win and makes them at 100% in the series this year. Chris Holbrook ran the quickest Stock Eliminator pass ever. I don't think the Cobra Jets are running G.M. LS engines.

Anyone know the status of Penske's current and future involvement in this series?

Recently, there have been a number of interesting articles written about the new flat plane 5.2 GT350 engine. I get a kick reading some of the nonsense in the comments sections. Typically, someone just has to reference some version of the G.M LS engine series and how it either makes more H.P., is lighter, has a lower center of gravity, or is less complicated. After all, a flathead engine is smaller, lighter, and less complicated than an OHV engine; but it cannot match the power of an OHV engine of similar displacement. I suppose they just can't let go of the past when the "Mod" engines were initially outclassed. It reminds me of the NASCAR days of yore where the G.M. cars won most races; and us Ford guys would save some face by claiming that they all used Ford 9" rear ends.

I think NHRA has some very restrictive design limitations on Funny car and Top Fuel engines. It is almost a spec engine. However, I believe Ford and Force did what they could within those parameters to differentiate the Ford from the standard Hemi design. You can Google " NHRA Ford 500" and derive some pictures and info. If Force abandoned the Ford engine with the switch to GM, I wonder if the engine has any future. I remember that A.J. Foyt gained the rights to the Ford DOHC Indy engine and renamed it after himself. Perhaps Force could do the same.

I see where John Force has won the "Funny Car" class again; this time under GM sponsorship. I had to wonder if he is still using the engine (Ford 500) that was developed along with Ford as an alternative to the "standard" Hemi-derived power. That would make for an interesting combination.

Does anyone know why the 01 Ford DP was the only one entered? It seems that handling was the main problem that resulted in the 4th place finish.

This finish was an example of never giving up on the race. I don't believe a Ford led a lap during the whole race; except for the last one! Unfortunately, the Roush teams seem to remain well behind.

The Ford Ecoboost V6 (last years winner) is competing at the 12 Hrs. of Sebring today. It didn't qualify all that good; but hopefully, they can get it sorted out during the race. It's being televised on Fox Sports 1 and 2.

This was very interesting. As a Ford enthusiast since the 60's, it's good to hear they are committed to a well managed, long term program for both motorsports participation and retail performance autos. Thanks for the link