Stray Kat

The gas and emissions crisis of the early 70’s destroyed the gestation of several legendary Ford V8’s such as the Boss 302,351 and 429. It would be a sad sad thing if this new shift away from ICE killed yet another potentially epic Ford V8. If I was a betting man I’d say the 6.8 is a shorter deck/stroke aluminum block version of the 7.3 Godzilla. I would also not be surprised if the cylinder head intake ports were repositioned to effectively lower the intake manifold in order to get this package under flat hoods in the Mustang. It’s even possible that we don’t know about an even smaller version say 330”-345” to be coupled with the “Powerboost” driveline. That ☝️might be a cool engine line. You might see the 3.5 EB go away leaving EcoBoost to the 2.7/3.0 Nano and down applications. This might seem unlikely but it may surprise you because the 3.5 EB is really all by itself in design. As such it might be cheaper to reduce to the smaller EB line and the pushrod Godzilla family for the bigger jobs with no one off engine in between. Thoughts?

I don’t know if it’s been said recently but there hasn’t been much new information dropped about this engine project in a while. I hope Ford keeps a handle on expectations and people call it a flop because they’re disappointed. Right now with rumors of the 6.8 being both an F150 and a Mustang engine has got people’s imaginations running wild. Mine included!

I agree 100%.

“Balance of Power” has been killer on Ford’s. The Ford GT recently in the GTLM class was severely neutered to help the lesser cars stay competitive.

Hang on a second.... turning an engine with a particular ring pack over by hand is one thing but that’s not really what goes on dynamically when an engine is running. Those forces of combustion are both pushing the piston into the thrust wall and at the same time acting on the rings by blowing them out into the cylinder wall. Big difference there. I don’t know the math formula to figure it out. I guess it’s not even necessary to know as intuitively one is correct by saying thinner lighter rings and lighter piston assemblies will reduce parasitic losses.

Whoa Nellie! Hold on a minute here. I’m not a fan of the Mods gigantic physical size but it would be hard to think of a more successful engine line. For example the V10 in both 2V and 3V versions is the darling of the gas powered RV crowd. It will outdo the 460 and 454 while still delivering a little better fuel economy. The 4.6 and 5.4 2V engines are easily 300,000 mile engines. The 3V has a couple unforced errors but they’re not terrible. They,re big and ugly but they DON’T use the bandaid solution of deactivating cylinders to meet EPA and CAFE targets like the comparable GM and Mopar engines use. (and they have proven to be troublesome in their own right) By virtue of the small tight bore with precisely controlled combustion qualities. The very thing that kept the Mods in that small bore long stroke architecture was also the thing that just forced the physical size of that thing to get out of hand. The long stroke long rod required a tallish deck while Ford used the bulkiest head design known to man. Specifically the cam over followers over the valve stems. Those heads are unusually tall. I personally think Ford could have put a nicer head like that on the 6.2 and had a smaller and more powerful engine in every version (4.6, 5.4, 6.8). Those 6.2 heads are very much like the old 427 SOHC heads in that the camshaft was between the valve stems and used a rocker arm over the cam to actuate the valves. Don’t get me wrong I love the idea of a big inch pushrod V8 to go with the brilliant Coyote engine but this whole 3V head could have been avoided and the Mod based V8’s would have been far more competitive with the newer GM and Mopar V8’s.

So are we all keeping in mind that the photos of the GM engines are of deck detail whilst the Ford picture is a cutaway showing actual cylinder wall? Notice the oval shaped major diameter I believe first pioneered on the mid-80’s 5 liter blocks. These of course put emphasis on the thrust sides of the cylinders. I must admit General Motors has always been generous with wall thickness in many areas of their various but not all V8 cylinder blocks. The Ford approach appears to me to have always been accurate castings with “engineered” wall thicknesses to save weight and probably costs. When I worked for an engine rebuilder I used to cringe when the big block Chevy stuff came across the bench. You’d truly have to wrestle that stuff around. I always thought if they felt that much like an anchor on the workbench, think about what a counterweight they must be in any vehicle that is intended to have some decent driving dynamics. It’s no wonder the little 289 GT350 Mustangs used to give the Corvettes fits in road racing. The bitty block Ford was a flyweight powerhouse.

Many of the eventually higher power American V8’s came from the bigger truck realm. Example being the 348 then 409 then 396 Mark IV Chevrolet engines were handed down from truck duty. Did Chevrolet really need a big block in 1958 cars? Well maybe but I doubt it would have come without the development costs for it being paid by their truck needs. The 445” Ford is perfect fodder for the hot rod enthusiasts.

Guys, for heaven’s sake these first Godzilla efforts are just that, “early development first efforts”. The Coyote is a magnificent engine but it is limited by its bore spacing. Yes it is making tremendous power in both factory (760 horsepower) and aftermarket (who knows?) but the lack of piston displacement takes away from some of these builds to be more “relaxed”. By relaxed I mean reaching 5, 6 or 7 hundred horsepower with more low down grunt. Don’t get me wrong the Coyote is probably one of the greatest factory mass produced V8’s ever but “if only” it could have departed from the narrow Modular bore spacing so much more could’ve been done. One of the biggest changes could have been a lower deck height, larger bore, shorter stroke, shorter rod, shorter chains and a NARROWER ENGINE profile! The Godzilla looks like a 351W on steroids. It will take a little time but it will make its mark in the Ford Performance world. Have you guys any idea the penetration the GM LS has in the performance world? I’m sure you do better than I The Trans Am series TA 2 division which is off the charts gaining in popularity is currently open to three different engines one from each manufacturer but in very short order will be moving to a “spec” LS motor for every car. NASCAR’s lower divisions from the trucks series down are ALL GM LS spec engines at least totally or optional moving towards total. Currently in the massively gaining in popularity off road world especially sand cars and rock hoppers are ALL GM LS powered evidenced by the recent “King of the Hammers” off road race where the only four cars out of hundreds that weren’t GM powered were the four factory Ford Bronco 4400’s. The issue facing anyone building a modern day performance vehicle like a rock hopper or a track day Cobra or a Late Model short track oval racer is the LS is fast becoming the ONLY option. The Coyote is more complex and much wider in physical size combined with it’s limited displacement. The Mopar hemi is also more complex and wider than absolutely necessary for some applications. The GM engine to me essentially takes everything that was good about the high port 302 and 351 Ford engines guys were racing in the 80’s and 90’s and put that into a fully modernized skirted block with better sealing and strength. The similarities ☝️are uncanny. The 6.8/7.3 Godzilla is the perfect antidote against complete GM domination of the performance world eventually. (If Ford will let that happen) The Godzilla as I see it is one or two steps above the GM and the Mopar V8’s in basic architecture. The heads are capable of handling up to an inch or more of valve lift as they come from the factory. The bore centers are wider giving more material between the cylinders to enhance strength and cylinder head gasket clamping between the cylinders. The intake manifold and intake tract mimics the Coyote inlet system which is fantastic. The bottom end is very stout and may have an ultimate advantage over the other two. Ford went away from the 1:1 crank mounted oil pump and over to a chain driven pump that can be slowed down by gear ratios to a reasonable rpm when the engine’s operation range is elevated. I don’t see any compromise in the Godzilla that renders it a no go as a performance engine. The simple two valve (slightly canted) cylinder heads will be embraced by the aftermarket and you’ll see much higher performance aftermarket versions even full race billet examples. So long as the bottom end is up to the job and the basic top end is good you’ll see an explosion of interest in this engine and maybe some challenge to GM’s current utter dominance. Here is a shop that is built around the GM LS platform beginning to embrace the Godzilla engine. https://www.mastmotorsports.com/collections/factory-mast-godzilla-products

Here I go again.......alright I’ll buy your supercharged V8 theory but not a “Rootes” type with rotors mixed with off road dust in close quarters with the outer case. Nooo! I’m relieved Ford hasn’t stepped in that pool yet. Let’s see how this Ram deal holds up......that is if any of them actually see the dirt. You want to supercharge an off road engine give me one of those snail type like a Procharger. I still say this is no place for an expensive aluminum lung that could be under assault from the unique conditions off road. Turbos? Yes Centrifugal blowers? Yes Positive displacement Rootes type? No!

If you say so about the filter. I’m a believer that what you put into the world you get back. Build something a little vulnerable and the people will find the weakness. The TFL tests I’ve seen don’t seem fair. They fawn over the big hemi power but are pretty vague with details about how the trucks perform in their intended purpose which is sailing over whoops and down desert roads. They do a lot of rock crawling and trailer stuff. This plays into Ram TRX’s hand. I don’t think Ford should follow Ram, I think Ford’s PR dept should reemphasize what the Raptor is about and how good the new Raptor is at high speed off road fun and how much better the new one is at doing that. The side by side examples you give are of vehicles that are LIGHTER than the ones they supplanted.

What it it’s a DOHC 4V V8 based on the 6.2 Raptor engine? Can you imagine?? That ☝️would be the “doomsday” engine Ford could use to send a message heard ‘round the world.

I can’t believe you guys aren’t as skeptical as I am of putting a spiral rotor supercharged engine in a vehicle that may see incredible amounts of dust and silt. No I pray that Ford doesn’t follow Ram off the cliff just to win a pissing contest with the TRX. I think the future 6.8 in N/A form or an upgraded 3.5 EB would be a much more livable package. As it is right now the TRX is 800 pounds heavier than the Raptor. Why give that massive advantage away?

Can you guys fill me in as to which V8 this might be? Is this the JLR 5.0 V8?

So, make a nimble 4 wheeler as heavy and as cumbersome as possible in order to what? Win the mall crawler drag championships? A Bronco with a 2.7 can make 500 hp with a tune. Stay the course Ford. Win the battle with quality and capability.