jpd80

Absolutely, a FWD/AWD Edge/Nautilus also better delineates itself from Explorer/Aviator and C2 would have given us an Edge before 2020, so well into the product cycle by now. There’s also the other knock ons that could have freed up development teams on CD6 to do say, Explorer Sport Trac instead of RWD Edge…an add on product like that is far less time consuming. That could have in turn, freed up crew cab F150 to perhaps cover heavier GCWR avoiding CAFE, if anyone could pull off a “heavy half ton” perception, it would be Ford. That’s a reasonable summation of the situation. Keep in mind that Farley came through under Fields and Hackett, seeing how drive Bill Ford was on implementing BEVs. I think that eagerness to correct shortcomings in his predecessor’s plans and the willingness of Bill Ford to support him saw a massive ramp up in intent to compete against GM, Tesla and VW - probably Ford’s three main global BEV competitors. Part of the issue becoming a BEV manufacturer is reinvention of design, development and parts procurement. Ford was clearly devoted to divorcing the old from the new but I don’t think that was the problem so much as misreading just who their customers were and what they actually wanted…

Alternatively, if Ford had just picked and stuck with a C2 Edge/Nautilus from get go, then it would have justified a full product cycle. Rumour was the CD6 Edge proportions and styling were a bit off, such a shame because if the original project had been developed as short/medium/long wheelbase Explorer the cost would have been way less and delivered years ago….such is the way of Ford..

A better way to “sell hybridisation” is to show improved performance possibilities as well as better economy. Adding bigger electric motors for stronger launch combined with energy conservation could play to that… Getting the electric side to do more of the power adder is examples by the 3.0 EB PHEV and coming 2.3 EB PHEV.

Incorrect, GT500 was never offered in RHD, an alternative high end special vehicle was developed and sold in limited numbers. Harrop did the work.

Take 20% off those numbers as they are the uncorrected values. Modern vehicle mpg ratings have been down corrected a couple of times to reflect more real life conditions. I get your point though and you can see what cars died out as the CAFE figure is much higher than Trucks/Utilities.

If gas prices keep falling, I think the need for better fuel economy and desire to buy hybrids may also reduce. Most vehicles give pretty good gas mileage this day so any buy in to electrification has to be a strong want/need from the customer……unless Ford needs to press harder with better corporate fuel economy numbers (rising CAFE levels).

In the real world, you’d probably find that they’re all pretty similar fuel economy wise, didn’t mention power to avoid stirring up the Panther lovers too much..

True and it’s interesting how close the fuel economy is these days..

Pursuit Rating is not about driving like a sports car, it’s about the vehicle being able to maintain a high speed pursuit. GM’s Tahoe has been pursuit rated for years and Silverado PPV was added for 2023. F150 probably performs similar in a pursuit situation, I’m actually surprised that Ford has taken this long to compete with those GM vehicles… The pursuit rating just allows more PDs to access this vehicle for their ordering process, which probably gives them more choices over say, the Silverado PPV or Tahoe….

Continuing the 2024 SD next year would suggest that Ford is stalling for time to either end all of its YM25 Powerstroke sales in California or do an upgrade across the board… The other thought is that diesel sales are a low percentage of F-650 & F-750 sales and California would be an even smaller subset of that number. We’re probably talking about lost sales in the low hundreds per month

Story continues at link. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/engine-maker-cummins-agrees-to-pay-1-67-billion-to-settle-claims-it-bypassed-emissions-tests/ar-AA1lUlwW?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=f61f86112bc446b38537e1c88e8d4f15&ei=40 I understand that Cummins is an industry standard in engine supply but now faces a hefty payout. So glad that Ford avoided this by not having as an engine option like Ram… So what happens to all of those trucks, does Ram have to do anything to make good on emission requirements or is this done and finished?

At first, that would make perfect sense but the issue is tha Ford used the shorter wheelbase to basically replicate the other shorter wheelbase compact utilities. Now if Ford used the Maverick pickup’s 120” wheelbase, just think for a moment how that extra 14” of wheelbase changes second and third row seating plus a usable storage area inside the rear hatch. My issue with Ford is the lateness they get trends, those Boxy SUVs would have been just the thing if delivered in 2016 or 2017. Ford is not balancing rugged with sleek swoopy styling, it seems like they swing from one to the othe for the wrong reasons..

The only exception I can think of was Explorer Sport Trac which even today has a high price compared to dual cab Ranger.. If you compare Gen 1 Escape with Bronco Sport, it’s eerily similar and I suspect that was a deliberate reset to a squarer, more Ofer road SUV while letting the rounded Escape become the dispensable commodity “car”. To me, it’s an example of Ford reinventing the segment but it could have made escape wider as an Edge replacement… Maverick SUV was interesting before cancelled, a LWB compact SUV that could easily hold its own in price and space against the more expensive Escape….maybe that was part of the problem back when it was cancelled. For a luxury Lincoln, the 2.3 Ecoboost would have been the perfect gotta have engine that would have set it apart from the likes of Escape and Bronco Sport or even Maverick….but that’s just me.

Agree with all the above comments For the best part of 2023 economists were predicting a rough 2024 with recession on most lips but now, the experts aren’t sure….. All I’m saying is that predictions that seem certain at one point in time can be quite wrong or rather different when we get there… 2024 might be similar to 2023 without the predictions of impending doom. The same could be said for BEV sales, it’s easy to be overly optimistic or pessimistic, finding the right blend of level head thinking is hard when we don’t know all the facts… Maybe how Ford and GM react to change or buyer indifference is what matters….

Things really started going south when confirmation of slowing BEV sales across the industry came out, I don’t think he could handle the truth that BEV rollout was going to take a lot longer than the early projections. Many here have been through several Ford and GM leadership cycles and know that thinks can and do change radically, so we tend to be less enthusiastic until we see just how engaged buyers actually are (sales depth). The big question is if they can’t sell more than 50k/yr Lightnings now, do they really need BOC in two years time?

Yeah, the base Maverick hybrid was a deliberate and provocative $23k price point to really catch buyers attention but once Ford had the ‘fish on the line’ the loss leader becomes less available until supplies stabilised with higher price. People will still buy the Maverick hybrid because it’s still well below $30k, way below ICE Bronco Sport & Escape entry point. Maverick’s pricing absolutely screams at the other two….

The three most profitable vehicle groups in Ford Globally are F Series, T6 (Ranger/Bronco/Everest) and then Transit in third place. North America is F Series, Europe it’s Transit and in Asia Pacific it’s T6 (Ranger/Everest). Whenever those vehicle sales are reduced for whatever reason, profit drops significantly. All the other vehicles that Ford tries to sell add little to their bottom line - Europe previously had high volume sales of Focus and Fiesta but those were barely break even. The hard part is changing to higher profit vehicles, there’s a lot less interest form buyers so sales data takes a big hit and profits are still small, change looks ineffective.

The good part is say, 2 or 3 year lease with set buy back. As you say, better products then so Ford will be hungry to make a deal and get your BEV back as well

Problem is that daily rentals are walking away from BEVs because of costs in general, I don’t see too many private fleets going for this but maybe government fleets for those wanting to be seen as doing something positive…

Here we go, I wonder how many people will be convinced to buy one. If so, would they want to lease with a guaranteed return price….

No, I was talking about places outside the US where gasoline is still over USD$5.00/gallon at the moment, that's where hybrids will become the replacement for diesels in smaller utilities. Now, for people stuck in slow speed grind back and forth to work, a more efficient vehicle makes sense compared to people who’s commute is mostly at constant freeway speed.

Interest in hybrids seems to vary a bit depending on gas prices but for me outside of North America they are the future away from diesels in utilities at least…..you can always sell good fuel economy when it’s on the buyer’s radar

These things have a way of coming back on Ford and biting them in the ass, they were right to Perdue BEVs but I sometimes wonder how they prioritise boots n all decisions instead of a more measured approach Its hard when they see Tesla going off like a frog in a sock and want to be them….. there’s just not the same customer attraction level, Tesla holds court over lead compact vehicles….others need to do a better job. Ford needs to still produce vehicles that dealers can service and stay in touch with customers- I know the urge to ditch dealers is strong but it would be a mistake this soon in the BEV migration

I think you’re misinterpreting time on lot vs vehicle availability the reason Maverick hybrid turns in lots in less than five days is because so few of them are or at least, we’re being produced

Yeah because there’s about 188 of them at dealers nationwide, PHEV Escape has been a hard to get product for the past two years and most seem to be built to order. It makes sense that dealers will normally order stock that they can turn quickly. Ironic that Ford wants dealers to do a a million buck upgrade to sell Lightning and Mach E when cash incentives might be coming in 2024…….