Ovaltine

And if you wanted the *really* hot setup, you ordered that 302 Maverick with the famous "Grabber" package. Although I personally think the '70-'71 versions were much more attractive: -Ovaltine

Now we're starting to talk. If Ford/Lincoln puts this out along with an immediately available high-horsepower V8 drivetrain, then I'd say that the turnaround is starting to take root. Keep the quality up, and I think you'll have a viable alternative to Caddy and some of the other luxury marques. -Ovaltine

I was working at FPSD back in '88 when it came out. The joke I heard back then is that the term "market penetration" was verboten in any reports or press releases that mentioned the Probe. :P -Ovaltine

Valid points which bring me back to my subject line regarding "piling on". I wonder why a national cartoonist chose Ford of all the vehicle manufacturers to illustrate their point. Is there a virtual/perceived "Kick Me" sign taped on Ford's back right now? -Ovaltine

Does anyone find it ironic (and a bit humorous) that I saw the following cartoon in the Detroit News of all places yesterday? The Dinette Set by Julie Larson Clickable link: http://www.comics.com/creators/dinetteset/...t-20060807.html A little enlightening info about the author and strip: Julie noted a dull, repetitive lifestyle from one suburb to the next. But when she took a closer look, she saw it was only monotonous on the outside. Underneath, she observed a lively hustle and bustle of people who truly enjoyed every moment of belonging to the masses. Mass consumerism was exciting and colorful! Julie embraced it and saw it as a theater filled with stars whose favorite ride was 'The Rat Wheel." Julie began writing The Dinette Set comic in 1990, then called Suburban Torture, offering a satire on middle class culture. The Dinette Set became syndicated in 1997. When asked where Julie gets all of her ideas, she admits there is only one way to write a daily comic: write about what you know. "I make no bones about who's really talking in The Dinette Set," says Julie, who is writer, director and cast of The Dinette Set. "If we can't make fun of ourselves, who will?" -Ovaltine

My sources told me that they think that production at the Michigan Truck Plant (MTP) will be down this coming week due to some kind of defect discovered with the newly launched redesigned Expedition/Navigator's braking system. Anyone heard the same thing out there? -Ovaltine

Bill: We don't look too much like the "Ambiguously Gay Duo"..... do we Ace, er, I mean Mark? Mark: I sure hope not Gary, uh, I mean Bill! Now where did we leave the new phallic-shaped mule prototype ? For SNL cultural reference point, see: http://www.tvsquad.com/media/2006/04/tvfunhouse1.jpg http://tiglff.com/film98/ambiguou.htm http://fp.ignatz.plus.com/images/ambiguously%20gay%20duo.png :lol:

Careful there Explorer4x4! Any more statements like the one above and you'll be ostracized on boards here! That's borderline heresy you're stating there!!!! No positve statements about the Koreans allowed! -Ovaltine

Look at the high res photos of the control arm above, dipwad. From what I can see, there is NO external scratching, gouging, etc. that would indicate that the control arm hit a curb. SOOOOOOO..... that might just support the theory that the problem (if owner induced) would have involved the right front tire/wheel, which is claimed to be undamaged. So again.... IF the problem was owner-induced by striking an object, the front tire most likely would have been involved in this particular case. I am assuming that any type of impact strong enough to snap a contol arm off involving the tire/wheel would be strong enough to damage said wheel/tire. Otherwise, what the hell is Ford making their control arms out of..... balsa wood? I personally like the theory floated above that the arm may have been damaged by too much pressure from a J-hook on the arm when the truck was chained down on a transportation truck/train. -Ovaltine

Taking the following quote at face value, I guess this is what backs up the poster's claim: "There was no evidence on the wheel that there was an impact. The persons in vehicles on each side of her stated she has hit nothing. There was also evidence of fatigue cracking on the control arm which had already oxidized, indicating to me that there may have been a flaw in this particular control arm. What could she hit driving slow enough to pass through the bank that could have broken the forged aluminum control arm without causing any impact damage to the wheel?" The poster would have to be a liar (by omission) and have changed out the damaged wheel to make your hypothesis possible. Possible... surely. Probable..... not as sure. -Ovaltine

THIS is exactly the part of the Ford "dealership experience" that p-sses me off! Instead of simply taking in the information and at worst saying nothing, the Ford dealer immediately went on the offensive and attempted to blame it on the driver. It would be one thing (to blame the driver) if the person admitted to truly doing something bone-headed like crashing over some big curbs, running off the road, etc. Especially if the part(s) show such damage. But in the absence of such a confession and physical evidence, the dealer should at least attempt to make it look like they're on the consumer's side until all the conclusive facts are in. Ford dealers...... ARRGGGHHH! -Ovaltine

I guess a non working door WOULD be considered a desirable feature to have on an ex-wife's car! I did a little research based on what you said, and if the 2002 article I read is still valid, you are correct. Here is what I found for Hyundai/KIA: "Coverage applies only to original retail purchaser/lessee and their immediate family members; second and/or subsequent owners have powertrain components coverage under the 5-year/60,000-mile New Vehicle Limited Warranty." So if you wife's car pukes a tranny or major engine component, she might get some relief. But I agree that it sucks that the remaining bumper-to-bumper warranty can't be transfered, even with a fee of some kind. It will be interesting to see if Hyundai/KIA ever changes that policy. I wouldn't hold my breath. -Ovaltine

I just posted what I saw on autoblog.com. The quote about value is from the linked article dated 7/24. Funny thing about your ex's door though.... I *think* the 5 year / 60k bumper-to-bumper warranty might just cover a simple repair like that for her. I don't think KIA would have too big a problem with okaying the work order for that. And to that I'll respond with an anecdotal story that happened to me just a month ago down in Myrtle Beach while on vacation. While stopped at a gas station / party store, I saw an women who was asking if she was heading in the right direction for the beach. I told her that she was, to which she replied "Great.... because I've had one ugly trip so far." She goes on to tell me that her and her husband own a Lincoln dealership somewhere down South. She further explains that as her and her 2 lady friends were a couple of hours or so into their trip, when the powersteering completely failed on her brand new Town Car! She could hardly turn the wheel enough to get it into a parking lot. She called her husband who dispatched their son-in-law to her with a new Town Car from the lot, sticker still in the window. I knew she was telling the truth, because when I left indeed a new Town Car, sticker in window, with two older ladies inside was just outside the door. The moral of the story? Sh-t happens on cars. ALL of'em. Take'em back, get'em fixed, and keep motoring. Should all Lincolns be judged by this lady's experience? The obvious answer is *no*. But.... using your litmus test above using a failed door latch to judge all KIA's (or Chevy's, or Dodges, or Toyotas, etc.) I sure could make an inference from her car over to all other Lincolns, right? Regarding your final point above, well at least I can say my Spectra's "Union Made" eh? :P -Ovaltine

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/24/kia-nab...ed-design-boss/ Kia nabs Volkswagen's advanced design boss Posted Jul 24th 2006 10:06AM by John Neff One thing Kia has never been accused of is being on the cutting edge of style. That may change with news that the Korean automaker has hired on Volkswagen's advanced design chief, Peter Schreyer, to head up its global design operation. Schreyer is the guy responsible for Audi's Bauhaus flava and has lately been laying low over at Volkswagen designing such shapes as the Concept-R roadster. Word has it that Schreyer has been unhappy at VW/Audi for some time due to differences with VW's design chief Murat Gunak. What does this mean for Kia? We can expect future designs from the automaker to include copious amounts of style along with their trademark value. -Ovaltine

Not to turn this in to a urinating contest.... but I just want to clarify a couple points to support my previous statements. 1. I didn't say the Spectra's interior design was superior to a Fusion's. I *was* refuting however the statement in an earlier post that no one would get into a KIA and ever make a positive statement about the design and interior materials quality. Is that clearer now? 2. My original point was to illustrate how a Focus-class car from another maker has nearly the same interior room as the Fusion's, a mid-size car. The original poster wondered if Ford took special measures to insure a larger interior, and I wanted to make a point that if they did, they probably could have made it even larger based on the specs of my car. Not a criticism... just an observation. 3. I disagree on the plastic's quality comment above. The Spectra's top dash panel, arm rests, and top door panels are all *padded*. Hard plastics is only used on lower surfaces. The Fusions I've sat in have at least a hard plastic top dash panel that doesn't have any better appearance to it than the Spectra IMHO. As far as a comment on "perceived quality" goes, the one thing I like about the Spectra's dash is that the passenger side airbag is complete hidden. There are no doors or exposed external seams showing where the airbag is. This is a feature that I"ve only seen on much higher end cars. I know that it can be argued that the door approach (ala Fusion - see below) is more economical to reload should the bag be deployed, but I'm guessing that in most cases where the bag deploys the car is toast anyway. NOTE: Of the two designs below I *do* find the Fusion's more appealing and attractive overall. These photos are to illustrate the point about the appeal of hidden passenger airbag seams. Fusion with airbag seams Spectra without airbag seams (Focus-class car) Here's a pic and link of the 2006.5's KIA Optima's interior.... the car closest to the Fusion spec-wise. High res link to a comparable black w/leather version of the above interior: http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/na...terior_view.jpg -Ovaltine

Well... that may be true if the the people doing the riding work for any of the Big 3. In *reality*, I've had nearly everyone who rides in my Spectra look around at the interior, analyze the ride and low road noise, and then say.... "Did you say that this is a KIA???? Damn!" No bull. -Ovaltine

Uh oh..... it looks like someone needs to brush up on their Ford history! You're confusing the Deuce's post-WWII "Whiz Kids" with Henry's goon squad headed by Harry Bennett. BIIIIGGGG difference! By the time the "Whiz Kids" came, the UAW was already in at Ford. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Auto_Workers The UAW's next target was the Ford Motor Company. Henry Ford had promised that "The UAW would organize Ford over my dead body." Ford selected Harry Bennett to keep the union out of the company, and the Ford Service Department was set up as an internal security, intimidation, and espionage unit within the company, and quickly gained a reputation of using violence against union organizers and sympathizers (see The Battle of the Overpass). It took until 1941 for Ford to agree to a collective bargaining agreement with the UAW. ( Note: The "Whiz Kids" didn't arrive until 1946.... post war!" ) The "Whiz Kids" disassociation with union busting is also confirmed here: http://concise.britannica.com/ebc/article-9034844 Henry Ford, II American industrialist and head of Ford Motor Company for 34 years (1945–79). He is generally credited with reviving the firm. In 1940 Ford left Yale University without graduating to join the firm founded by his grandfather, Henry Ford, and at the time run by his father, Edsel Ford. A year later he joined the U.S. Navy; but in 1943, following the unexpected death of his father, he was released from duty and became a Ford vice president. After what amounted to a crash course in industrial management, he succeeded to the presidency of the ailing company in 1945. He promptly set about modernizing the Ford Motor Company and discharged the all-powerful personnel chief Harry Bennett, whose strong-arm union-busting tactics had earned the company a great deal of opprobrium. He brought in a group of talented systems analysts from the U.S. Air Force who became known as the “Whiz Kids,†among them Robert S. McNamara, later to become Ford's president. One of the cars introduced during Henry II's tenure, the Edsel, was a legendary failure, but two others, the Mustang and the Thunderbird, were immensely popular and are widely considered to be classics. By the mid-1950s Henry II had restored the company to financial health, and subsequently he greatly expanded Ford's operations in overseas markets. So the point of the original poster is still a potentially valid one. -Ovaltine

After reading the accolades about Fusion interior room above (which is a very good thing!), and whether Ford expended any special effort in obtaining it, I couldn't help but wonder about how the Fusion stacked up against my KIA Spectra of the 'Competition' thread fame (j/k). I've ridden in two co-worker's Fusions over the past several months, and thought that it indeed was a marked step in the right direction for Ford. My co-worker's haven't had any problems either in about 5k miles. They are both pretty happy with their vehicles. Back to the topic of special attention paid to interior space then. My rides in the Fusion were enjoyable, but I didn't feel that the interior was extraordinarily spacious for the outside dimensions of the car. It was comfortable, don't get me wrong, but I wasn't surprised by the amount of room. In fact I got the feeling that my smaller exterior Spectra was almost as spacious. Well it appears that I was correct! The online specs (see below) for both cars compliments of automobilemag.com show that the 14 inch shorter Spectra has nearly identical interior specs to the Fusion! The wheelbase is also 5 inches shorter. I've read in several places that the "compact" Spectra has interior specs rated similar to a "mid-size". I guess that this analysis substantiates that claim. The bottom line is, it appears that all the automakers are starting to *finally* pay attention to making the interior of their cars a nicer place to be for us ever-expanding Americans and Europeans! :-) -Ovaltine Ford Fusion Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 38.7, rear headroom (inches): 37.8, front hip room (inches): 54, rear hip room (inches): 53.4, front leg room (inches): 42.3, rear leg room (inches): 37, front shoulder room (inches): 57.4, rear shoulder room (inches): 56.5 interior volume (cu ft): 100 External dimensions: overall length (inches): 190.2, overall width (inches): 72.2, overall height (inches): 57.2, wheelbase (inches): 107.4, front track (inches): 61.6, rear track (inches): 61.3 and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 38.7 -Weights: curb weight (lbs) 3,101 KIA Spectra Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches): 40, rear headroom (inches): 38.2, front hip room (inches): 52.4, rear hip room (inches): 53.9, front leg room (inches): 42.8, rear leg room (inches): 35.4, front shoulder room (inches): 55.1, rear shoulder room (inches): 53.9 interior volume (cu ft): 97 External dimensions: overall length (inches): 176.4, overall width (inches): 68.3, overall height (inches): 57.9, wheelbase (inches): 102.8, front track (inches): 58.9, rear track (inches): 58.5 and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 33.2 -Weights: curb weight (lbs) 2,892

COMPANY 2005 RECALLS AS A % OF VEHICLES IN OPERATION FORD 11.7% TOYOTA 10.1% GM 6.8% HONDA 4.0% CHRYSLER 2.5% <---- Interesting factoid! Sources: R.L. Polk & Co.; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. http://www.forbes.com/archive/forbes/2006/...6MjkgKzAwMDA%3D -Ovaltine

It looks like a 2 year old KIA Spectra5! -Ovaltine

While I applaud Ford for taking this initial step towards an improved warranty, I still believe that they should have went the extra distance and provided a complete 5 year/60k miles bumper-to-bumper warranty. My KIA's got that, PLUS a 10 year/100k miles powertrain warranty. From what I've read online, it looks like KIA's not too bad at honoring it too, just as long as you aren't a dipwad and ignore the required maintence spelled out in the manual. Again though... this IS a step in the right direction for Ford. -Ovaltine

That's cool..... I applaud the Ford dealer who elected to offer such a service. If the dealers in my area offer such a service I would weigh that into my purchase decision should some product that interests me comes out in the future. -Ovaltine

Wow..... your Ford dealer doesn't even offer shuttle service to service customers??? Is this a common phenomenon among Ford dealers these days? My KIA dealership will take you to and pick you up from something like 10+ miles away! I used the service twice, once when getting an oil change / tire rotation and once when I had a minor warranty issue taken care of. I live fairly close to my dealership, so I was home in a few minutes and off to work in another one of my vehicles. Shuttle service *should* be considered by any dealer worth their salt these days, in lieu of providing actual loaner vehicles. -Ovaltine

Oldracer: While I admire your candor about your Ford warranty experiences (they mirror many of my own), I'm really scratching my head based on your comments above. I know that you originally posted your thoughts before the recent announcement of Hyundai leaping to #2 in the IQS study, but last year Hyundai was at least mid-pack.... not dead last. KIA even made a noticeable jump in this year's IQS. In fact, SEVERAL individual Hyundai's were ranked #2 in IQS in their vehicle class, and the new KIA Rio was ranked #1 in IQS in the sub-compact class. Even my KIA Spectra took #2 last year in the compact class. So your claim that Hyundai's (and KIA's) are excretement is more suitable for a posting dated several years back. And yes.... the 60K/5 year bumper-to-bumper and 100k/10 year drivetraine warranties are very attractive to people. Couple all that with reasonable cost, and I think you'll find the answer to your question above. And as far as the dealership experience goes, my KIA dealer here in Michigan is KIA exclusive, and has treated me exceptionally well during my service and couple of warranty work experiences. -Ovaltine

And some even MORE enlightenment on the topic.... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-...RTICLE_ID=50619 Globalists back China in auto exports to U.S. Soros, Strong to invest hundreds of millions in American dump of cheap 'Cherys' next year Posted: June 12, 2006 7:00 p.m. Eastern © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com George Soros, the billionaire who bankrolled Moveon.org, and Maurice Strong, a major backer of the United Nations and environmentalist causes, are considering pouring hundreds of millions into a Chinese state automaker with plans to begin dumping cheap exports on the U.S. market next year, WND has learned. The "Chery" is a knockoff of the South Korean Spark, sold in the U.S. in partnership with General Motors. GM filed a lawsuit against Chery Automobile Co. for piracy of the car developed by its South Korean affiliate Daewoo.