ds91776

I think Lincoln should avoid Europe as Ford already has Volvo (and may retain) Jag and LR too. I think Lincoln should expand in China. Out of any country in the world (except our Canadian brothers and sisters of course) China has the most "american like" tendencies in the auto world. They prefer sedans for one thing and like large and midsize cars too, very different than Europe and Japan. They also like classic american styling as seen by Buick and Caddillac's success there. When I was in China last year, my Chinese friends had a lot of positive things to say about American cars and design and wanted to know why China did not get more "American" Ford products. The MKS would be a great fit for China Ford, go for it!!!!!!!

Hey guys, this car is the best looking luxury car I have ever seen, much better than the XF, 5, E, M45, CTS IMHO!!!!! As for the 270hp number, remember how the 3.5 was supposed to have 250hp? It ended up having 15 more hp when it was rated, so the base MKS engine could have 285hp, which is pretty good. Remember, at 38,000 dollars (which is an amazing price!!!!!) the base car will do battle with the 3, C, G37, CTS, A4, while the higher end models (including the TF) will compete with the 5, E, M45, GS, etc of the world but with far more hp. GO LINCOLN!!!!!!

Look everybody, only crazy people (i.e the .05% of car buyers who know or care that their suv is BOF etc) and off roaders (probobaly only .01% of the population) that goes offroading will want a truck based Explorer, those days are long over and let Jeep get those buyers. Explorer is one of the 4 big names at Ford (F-150, Mustang, and Taurus) and it needs the name on a high volume 6-7 passenger cuv pronto! Look, the Escape, C-Max, and Fiesta B-Max will cover the "b" to "c" segment of the crossover market. The Edge and the new Explorer will cover the middle segement, the Edge taking the 5 passenger market that also wants somthing a little smaller and sportier in styling. The new Explorer will cover the mid-sized 3 row, 6-7 passenger segment that is the heart of the cuv market, competing directly with the Pilot and the new Higlander. The Flex competes with minivans, large crossovers (ala Outlook and Acadia) as well as those who leave the Expedition and Tahoe class of suvs looking for somthing new and with better fuel economy. Its not that complicated people and makes total sense. Ford will have the markey completly covered, except for the very small market who knows and cares, or wants a BOF suv/cuv. The explorer was-is a family vehicle first in 90% of people's eyes and so this new explorer will be!

Where in the world do you get a RWD Taurus from? I never said anything about it, nor will, nor should the Taurus be a RWD vehicle. My post was about Lincoln, not the Taurus, which would have nothing to do with Taurus at all!

I know I know, these are often silly posts but I am interested in this kind of thing and how well people take to it. Now, I am not a guy who wants a silly number of performance or coupe models, this lineup will actually make sense. 1. The first part will deal with the products that we know will be a part of Lincoln going forward. -MKZ: entry level premium sedan. Keep it based on the CD4/EUCD2 platform in the future, with classy styling and abundant std equipment with AWD as an option. Have the std 3.7 V6 (288hp?) and then as an option the 3.7V6 with DI (330hp?) Competes with Lexus ES, Acura TSX, Saab 9-3, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Cadillac BTS (upcomming) and maybe several others. -MKS: mid sized luxury sedan. Based on D4 and maybe share platforms with future S80. Have standard AWD and three engine choices. 3.7DI V6 (330?), 3.5TF V6 (410hp?) and some V8 (jag unit, updated volvo unit, NA engine sharing bits with Boss?) (400hp?) And throw in a hybrid model tied to the 3.7V6 in for good measure. This car should always be classy, almost art-deco like (like I think all the great Lincolns have looked and the upcomming MKS looks like) with a large interior, with a pleasing (not techy looking like the germans now a days) interior with the best leather and wood in the class. Market the car as beautiful (not EXTREME) with a fuel efficient answer (the TF V6) to its rivals. Competitors: BMW 5, Mercedes E, Cadillac STS, Audi A6, Lexus GS, Acura RL, Infiniti G45, Volvo S80, etc. -MKX: mid sized luxury CUV. Keep the next gen based on the CD4/EUCD2 platform, but for the next gen, give it a little more rear overhang and give it a +2 rear seat to give the MKX more seating and family flexibility. Engines should be the same as the MKZ, with the std 3.7V6 (288hp?) and an optional DI version(330Hp?). Competes with: Lexus RX, Acura MDX, Infinit FX, BMW X5, Mercedes GLK, Caddillac BRX (upcomming), Volvo XC60, Audi Q5, etc. -MKL: large luxury CUV. Based on the D4 platform shared with Flex and MKS,etc. Use the same engine lineup (3.7DI V6, 3.5TF V6, and V8) as the MKS. This large crossover should be the best family vehicle in the luxury field with gorgeous styling and a roomy interior and seating for 6-7. Competitors: Lexus GX, Mercedes ML ,GL, and R Class, Cadillac SRX (if it survives), Audi Q7, Volvo XC90, etc. -Navigator: large and extra large SUV: based on the T2 platform, the std and extended length Navigators give buyers tremendous room, towing capacity, and luxury. Give it the biggest V8 for the platform and keep it in the new styling theme (MKR) but style it more truckish. Competitors: Lexus LX, Toyota LandCruiser, Infiniti QX, Cadillac Escalade, GMC Denali, Land Rover LR3, etc. -Town Car: This should be developed into sub-brand built only for limo fleets and the Cotton Top Brigade. Do not advertise with the rest of the lineup. 2. Now on the "goodies," or models that Lincoln could use if its current plan is a success (which I think it will be after the succes of gen1 MKZ and MKX). -MKR: small luxury sport sedan. Based off of the new world wide RWD platform (D3C?), this car would look as much like the concept as possible and be the brand's true competitor in the entry level field. Armed with RWD and AWD as well as the 3.7DI V6 (330hp?) and the 3.5TF V6 (410hp?) This car will be the super sporty car with radical styling, awesome handling and power, and a driver oriented interior focusing on styling over comfort. I see the MKZ-MKR relationship similar to that of the ES and IS in the Lexus lineup, one is roomier, more comfortable, cheaper, and more conservative, while the other is smaller, sportier, slightly more expensive, and more radically styled. Competitors: BMW 3, Mercedes C, Audi A4, Acura TL, Infiniti G37, Saab 9-5, Lexus IS, Cadillac CTS, etc. -MKC: large luxury sedan. A true Lincoln flagship based upon either the Jag platform or an overhauled D3C. Make it the roomiest sedan this side of a Maybach or Limo, with 2002 Continental concept styling with an MKR styled grille. Have AWD be an option and the strongest, smoothest V8 in the Ford family, wherever that can be found. Competitors: BMW 7, Mercedes S and CLS, Audi A8, Lexus LS, Jag XJ, Cadillac ETS (?) etc. -MK9: sporty hardtop convertible. Basically the coupe/convertable version of the MKR with the same engines with maybe a V8 "K-series" added on for good measure. A revitalized Lincoln may need a coupe/convt and using the MK9 badge would be great! -MKG: small lux cuv. Based on the C2 platform and a mate with the future Escape, Mariner, and Kuga. It would only seat 5 with the std 3.7V6 (288hp?). This smaller, cheaper, and sportier cuv would have more radical styling and less family oriented than the MKX and MKL. Competitors: BMW X3, Acura RDX, Infiniti EX, Mercedes GLK, etc. Anyway, this is my lineup for Lincoln, what do you think? I know that out of all of the vehicles on my wishlist the MKG is the most likely, but I think they all would have a place in the New Lincoln. Can't wait for the full reveal of the 2009 MKS in a couple of days. See you on the boards!

I am soooo glad that the 2nd gen C-Max is comming to the USA (Focus X anyone?). I am also glad it may be a 6 seater, since the 2010 Explorer will probobly be the cheapest 3 seater in Ford's lineup without it!!! As for the B-Max, this might mean that we won't get the 5 door fiesta, instead just getting the sedan and its B-Max big brother as the hatch. I do not think the Ecosport should come here. With the B-Max, Focus C-Max and Escape in the small cuv segment, the ecosport just isnt needed. As for the reflex.....Ford definaly needs it, especially as (I suspect) the C2 Focus will come over in sedan and 3dr hatch guises. The Reflex would give Ford a cool, inexpensive sporty coupe for those who want it or can't afford a mustang, etc.

Hey who ever subscribes to CR (sorry I dont remember your name), did the Edge get a "above average" or "well above average" rating (the full red dot)? Also, what about the Taurus X, is it still average or did it improve to above average like the sedan? Go FORD!

Hey, does anybody know when the 2008 CR Fall Guide is comming out on the magazine stand? I can't wait to buy this thing and pour over it. GO FORD!!!!! Go Bill!!!! Go Padilla!!!!!!! Go Mark!!!!!!!! Go Alan!!!!!!!

So that means that: -Fusion recommended -Taurus recommended -Focus recommended -Escape recommended (finally its been doing great in quality for the last few years) -Taurus X recommended These are the ones we know from last years survey. Last year the following were below average -Mustang -F-150 -Expedition -Explorer -Ranger (because of lack of testing) -Freestar -Sport Trac But this year (2008) -Edge must be recommended now -F-150 improved to average? -Mustang improved to average again? So that leaves the Ranger, Explorer, Sport Trac, and Expedition -I wonder if the 07 redesign/update improved it to average, I mean if 93% of models are recommended that means that only two or three from Ford are not recommended by CR. Does anybody know when their 2008 guide comes out? I've been waiting to see if the Edge continues Ford's leaps and bounds in quality.

Now, rumours for months and months have speculated that in 09 the Escape Triplets will get the PIP version of the Duratec 30 V6. It was also rumored that this engine would be in the Fusion Triplets. However, more recent rumors say that the Fusion and Milan will get the Duratec 35 V6 afterall. Does this mean the PIP was canceled, or is it just going to be for the Escape etc? Also, wil the escape get a new the new 2.5I4 in the 2009 Fusion as well as the Fusion's transmissions? I have long been intereseted in an Escape and I really like the design of the Mariner and Escape for 2008 and would love to see its engines updated to last until the 2012 Kuga-Escape debuts. 1 D30 V6PIP 240-250hp? 2. 2.5I4 170-190? Does anybody (Igor I'm asking you) know what will happen?

We know that the Freestar, 04 F150, 500, Freestyle, Focus 05 refresh, and mustang were primarilly Nasser era projects, finished without him, but started under his reign. The Fusion, Edge, 07 Expedition, 06 Explorer, 08 Taurus/X, 08 Escape, and 08 Focus were under what I will call "The transitional phase" Or the era after Nasser and before Fields and of course Mullaly. For 09 The Age of Fields begins, where the 09 F-150, Flex, CD3 triplets, and possible the mustang update will debut. To my mind the Flex seems a very,ver,very good sign for this new age. Since Mullally came on early (but not that early) into the Age of Fields, what other projects are primarilly his? 2009: -F-150 -Flex -Fusion, Milan, MKZ updates -mustang update (or 2010) -MKS -all of these are Fields era, either completly begun or heavily influenced by him (ala F150) 2010: -Taurus, Sable -Explorer, Mountaineer (or 2011) -Verve-Fiesta -MKL (Lincoln Flex) -Edge, MKX updates -Expediton, Navigator updates -all of these should be Fields projects too. But after that it gets somewhat fuzzy since for 2011 we should have the new C2 focus and hopefully the new C-MAX (Focus X anyone?), possibly a transit, possibly a world ranger. All of these projects seem likely Fields projects. However, by 2011 or 2012 we will see the world CD Mondeo/Fusion and the Kuga/Escape, are these going to be the first official products completly developed under Mullally? Anyway, please weigh in!

I believe there are people out there who rate cars based soley on front and rear overhang, its absolutly pathetic and annoying. If a car had a perfect front and rear overhang (and who is the judge of this?) these people would love it if it rode like a school bus, had torture chamber chairs for seats, and smelled like a skunk no matter what you did. Stop whining and move on.

Okay, normally I'm a car/crossover guy, but the current (04-08) F-150 got me interested in the market as a car-guy. The thing has to be one of the most handsome vehicles ever produced. Now that Ford is redesigning the F-150 for 09 (and Dodge is launching the Ram too) it occured to me that the truck market is making a big leap for 09. Think about it, traditionally trucks were redesigned on a 7-10 year cycle, much different than a 5-7 year cycle for most cars. The last gen f-150 was launched in 96, the Silverado in 99, the Tundra in 00. The Silverado and Tundra were redesigned for 07, making it a 8 and 7 year cycle respectivly. Now Ford is redesigning the F-150 after only 5 years!!!!!! Go FORD!!!!! I know its not a completely clean sheet redesign but Ford should really be commended for doing this. I wanted to use this thread as a facts and rumors section until the new truck is unveiled in January at NAIAS. WHAT I WE KNOW: -that Mark Fields really increased the number of changes to the truck when he took charge. -it will have the new storage options, synch, etc. -it will have the new Boss 6.2 liter (?) V8 engine. -it will get new versions of the 3.5 V6, possibly a regular and a twin-force version. -all new interior -all new exterior - it will launch with all body styles, reg, super cab, supercrew. MY SPECULATION: -it will continue to offer many trims with significant differentiation. -This leads me to beleive that there will be a "truck" and a "truck-car" interior, like the Silverado does. - It also makes me believe that their might be many grills, the "super duty grill" could go on Xl, STX, and FX4 models, while the "tri-bar" would go on the XLT, and the Lariat would bet an "egg crate" design. Since the F-150 is so many things to so many people, this makes a lot of sense to create differentiation with minimal cost. -What will be the middle engine, will the 5.4 V8 continue as the stepping stone engine between the V6 and the Boss? - A SVT lightning will launch in the future with the Shelby Mustang engine. Anyway, what does everybody else think and know? Please no negatoid comments, this isn't an opinion thread. What do you know? What have you heard. What do you speculate about the 2009 F-150?

You get your wish, the 2009 Fusion and Milan will get Mazda/Ford's new 2.4 I4 with HP rumored to be in the 180-190 range, making it tops in their class (if the 08 Accord doesn't match). With gas prices as they are, this engine is critical, I mean, whats the point (unless you have a lead foot) of getting a v6 now a days if the I4 gets that much power? This engine should be killer on the Escape and I would definitly get either the Fusion or Escape with this new 4 banger.

Wow, talk about a topic going off topic!!!! When is the Taurus X arriving at dealerships? Lets stop being ADD people.

Now that the Taurus is launching and is arriving in force on dealer lots, when is the Taurus X going to arrive? I know it was going to launch a little bit later and I saw Allan riding in one out of the factory a week or two ago. This car could be big for Ford since the brand does not have a non Explorer/Expedition 6-7 passenger vehicle, and won't have another for a year (the Flex). Any info? I can't wait until I can see the Taurus X on the lot and get the brochure.

I dont see why the whole 09 thing isnt clear to people, we know it will be an 09 model year, probobly debuting in LA or Detroit, here is how Ford's 09 autoshow season might look like. LA: -possible Fusion/Fusion Hybrid -possible Fiesta or preview (if it is an 09 model) -possible Escape engine upgrades -NA debut of Mazda 6 DET: -F-150 -possible Fusion/Fusion Hybrid -possible Mustang (if it is an 09) -possible Fiesta or preview concept -possible Ranger (if it is an 09) -MKS -possible MKZ -NA debut of Mazda 6 CHI: -Milan -possible MKZ -possible Ranger (Chicago seems to always get the small trucks) -possible MKL (large people mover) -possible Mariner engine upgrades NY: -possible Mustang (if it is an 09 model) -possible MKL (large people mover) -possible MKLT (if it hasn't been canceled) part of the problem with guessing is that it is unclear if the new mustang will be an 09 or 2010 model, same goes with the Fiesta and Ranger. Out of the three, it seems more likely that the Mustang will be an 09 over the the other two, but who knows, maybe Ford will surprise us? BTW I know the Flex is debuting for 09 but we have already seen it so I did not list it. As for concepts I would like to see a preview concept for the next Explorer, along with a serious "desgn study concept" like the intercepter was, and hopefully a cool hybrid sports car/evolution of the Reflex.

Ford needs the next gen Focus C-MAX, call it the Focus X. It would fit right under the Escape and above the upcomming Bcar based CUV. Put the new 2.5I4 in it along with an optional small 3rd row seat. This would allow the Escape to continue to be styled a little more "truckish" than some other small CUVs, because the Focus X would have car like kenetic styling. This kind of car is perfect for young families who don't want, need, or can't afford an Explorer, Taurus X, or Flex. It would also get good fuel economy, heck, put the Fusion's hybrid system in it!

First of all, the 09 240+ hp v6 will not be last in its class, not first, but not last. It will have more than the Sonata, Optima, Sebring, Avenger, Galant, current G6, and maybe one or two others. Second, I think we will see: -Focus X: Next gen Focus C-MAX with a small 3rd row ala Mazda 5, perfect small family car -B-car 2: we are getting the Fiesta, but I think we will get a Scion sized cuv based on the same platform S-MAX: We may get the S-MAX, I hope as a Mercury...call it Monterey. Of course, over the next three years we will see redesigns of Fusion, Taurus, Explorer, F-150, Mustang, Expedition, MKZ, Milan, Sable, Mountaineer, Navigator, etc. In three to four years we will definatly get a new Escape and Focus. Stop with the doom and gloom. There is some great stuff comming.

Remember, the Explorer (and other mid sized suvs with 3 rows) are 5 (or 4) plus 2, meaning that the back row is for kids or short trips only, it also sits up real high and is styled like a truck. The Taurus X offers buyers a bigger, roomier crossover that is smaller and cheaper than the Flex, though more car like and bigger than the Explorer. The Edge is a mid sized suv/cuv for people who don't want or need a third row and want more "car like" styling. the Flex caters to people fleeing minivans and full size suvs (basically expedetion buyers who can't afford the gas bill) This gives buyers choices, which Ford, as a full line manufacturer needs to do. Why do so many "car guys" think that every car maker should have 37,000 coupes and sports cars but think they should only build 1-2 suvs/cuvs. It is rediculous. the SUV/CUV/minivan etc market is way, way more diverse than the sedan market with a variety of seating arrangements, size, styling (truck like or car like), and price. There is more than enough room for a car-based Explorer in the lineup, good for Ford for seeing the light while the 4runner, Pathfinder, Envoy, Trailblazer, and Grand Cherokee sink, die, or fight over a shrinking market.

I know, they were going to add the new trans and engine, but the new name and possible front end were probably in response to pre-release criticism (and change over to modern Ford after Nasser was fired).

This is exactly what Ford should do, make the Ranger into an inexpensive trucky-truck, but use the F-100 (replacing the Sport Trac?) to compete with the Ridgline and give a place for people to go if they want a truck but think small trucks too small and F-150 full sizers too big or ineffiecient. I don't see what the problem with moving the Explorer to a car platform is as long as it can still tow on par with most of its competitors. The only truck based mid sized suvs left ar G. Cherokee/Commander, Pathfinder, 4Runner and waiting to die Trailblazer and Envoy. Here is what I hope Fords SUV/CUV future lineup looks. Entry Level Faction: small sporty CUV built on the new Fiesta platform, to compete with the Scions, PT crusier, HHR, etc. Focus X: next gen Focuc C-MAX (which may have seating for 6) to compete with Rondo, Element, Mazda 5 and others. This is the inexpensive vehicle for young families or those who need/want a smaller and more efficient cuv. Escape: base it on C2 but keep its "truck like" styling with I4, V6 and Hybrid engines, keep in cheap and fun. Mid Level Edge: based on CD3/future CD4/EUCD2 platform. Keep styling fresh and "sports car" like, keep it 5 passenger with V6 engines. Explorer: use D3/future D4/EUCD2 platform. Keep styling more "truckish" with 3 rows standard. Have available V6 and V8 engines. Taurus X: use D3/future D4/EUCD2 platform. Stradling the line between the mid level and large suvs/cuvs, this car should be lower and more "handsome" than the "sporty" Edge or the "rugged" Explorer. have standard 6-7 passenger space, car like styling, and V6 engines. Large Level Flex: use D3/future D4/EUCD2 platform. Competes with Large crossovers, minivans, and those who like full size SUV's but want better fuel efficency or different styling. Expedition/EL: Use T1/future T2 truck platform, keep up the good work. This is a full line of SUVs and CUVs that covers every competitor outside of the luxury segment. Ford can make this work and many parts of this idea are already at work or will be soon....here's hoping.

Remember folks this is a mid-cycle update. The current gen Accord and Mazda 6 were introduced for 03 and got freshenings for 06 and are being redesigned for 08 so we have 03- Intro 04 05 06-update 07 08-Redesign Think about it for the Fusion 06-Intro 07-add awd,std side airbags, std 6disc, alloy wheels, etc on SE, available nav,addition of sport package 08-abs std, increase availability of sport package, available lighting and rear parking assist. 09-update 10 11-Redesign The Fusion is on the same cycle as two of its more important competitors, the Camry operates in a similar way too, just that the 09 Fusion update is way more substantial, including new engines (2.5 I4, hybrid, possible diesel and-or St-SVT version) or significantly upgraded engines (PIP 3.0 V6), new front end, freshened rear, and a new interior. Ford is beating its rivals by continuly updating its products. Every year Ford has improved the Fusion by adding std or available features, and my list above is only a partial list. What makes this even more impressive is that unlike the 500/Taurus this isn't in response to negative press or poor sales, this is improving an already successful product, a move that the old Ford ( pre ouster of Nasser) would never have done.

The PIP prodject stands for (i think) Performance Improvement Project, basically adding more tech and refinement to the existing Duratec 30 V6. This engine is cheaper and more fuel efficient than the 3.5 V6 so it makes sense for Ford to have a more fuel effecient V6 laying around for use in less expensive vehicles such as the Fusion and Escape. The 2nd gen hybrid means that Ford has a more advanced hybrid system ready (Escapes was Gen 1) pairing with the 2.5 I4 engine I assume. Think of it this way, the 1st Prius was toyota's Gen 1 hybrid system while the 2nd gen Prius (and Camry Hybrid, etc) use 2nd gen hybrid tech.

There were spy shots of a 06 spec Fusion hybrid several months ago, so the project is on schedule it would appear.