2005Explorer

Whatever. It's just a message board and I am not going to take a scolding from someone who does not even own a Ford. Pretty hard to comment on the state of current Ford products if you don't drive one everyday.

I am on this board to learn about the auto industry...sorry that I don't know everything like you do. I can understand that it would be expensive. I thought the whole idea of the flex-plants however is to avoid that. I did not realize that Hermosillo had that much capacity. Once I was informed of that I now know that they can build at least 100K more product without needing another plant, so what was said before isn't really a point. I did not realize that you needed to be an "industry expert" to post on these boards.

Oh I did not realize that Hermosillo had that much capacity...well then the whole talk of needing another plant to build Fusions, Milans or MkZ's is not a valid point. Looks like they should be able to build at least another 100K of those products there. If that is the case then they need to find more ways to sell them. I know fleet can get you in trouble, but honestly there has to be a decent mix to where you are not going to kill the carline with fleet and still be able to sell to the general public.

Well actually of those products listed there are only 3 factories building them. I would assume...(but maybe I am wrong)...that Hermosillo and Oakville should be running at close to full capacity now. Is Chicago even building now or did they just shut down until the 2008 models come out?

If the Fusion is already stale Ford might as well get out of the car business. This would mean a new design is needed every year!

After looking at GM's results I don't really think the sales numbers even have anything to do with product anymore. The Saturn Aura which was supposed to be a Camry and Accord killer from GM is already down this month to 4100 units. This is actually a lower number then in previous months and it just came out this fall to rave reviews. The G6 is another good product and it is down 25% from last year in sales and it is not a terribly old product. It looks like to me the US consumer has made up their mind. It's import or nothing. So I guess maybe the discussion should shift to if the US automaker is even a relevant entity anymore? If everyone wants imports why even continue on? Sell out the pieces of what is left of GM and Ford and let the American consumer have all the Toyota's and Honda's they want.

Well this is a good point. Does anyone know if Hermosillo is in fact running at 100% or not??? If the demand is out there...why not crank Atlanta back up??? That would kill 2 birds with one stone. The people who hate the idea of a car built in Mexico could find an Atlanta model...or how about adding production at another flex-plant...AAI? Oakville? If Ford had done that would the carline be making enough profit with the current pricing or would it have the Focus problem of making little or no profit because of high labor costs?

I don't think this is much of a reason. My father just bought a Fusion. Last time be bought a new car it was a Taurus. The Fusion was made in Mexico and the Taurus was made in Chicago. Ask him which one has better fit and finish??? Guess what...it's not the Taurus! I don't think it really matters much anymore to people where something is built as long as it is a quality product. Now if Ford wanted to awe us on Fusion sales numbers then they should fleet it out like they did the Taurus. Imagine former Taurus fleet volume on top of the current 10,500. I bet they would have sold around 20-25,000 of them and everyone here would be saying it is a big success. I honestly do not think the Fusion is a bad car. In fact, I think it is the best mid-sized FWD sedan from a US automaker. Why people are choosing the Malibu, G6, Impala, or Sebring over it...I have no idea. It should be able to take the US market. The only thing I can think that would make it better is to offer the 3.5L V6 as an option and maybe in the future they will. The one smart thing Ford has done with this car is they have been adding and will continue to add big improvements along the way to keep people interested. In 2007 it was the all wheel drive version. Next year it will be the Hybrid version and of course I would recommend to them once 3.5L V6 production is moving at a faster rate to add that improvement as well.

That is because it has the newest design of the full size truck market...right? This proves you don't need to re-design something every other year as long as you have a solid product to maintain sales leadership.

Yeah...my parents just bought one...they LOVE it, but I guess for some reason it has become a sales disaster... Unreliable? Poor fit and finish? Poor handling? Slow? I am not sure but for some reason this car seems great when you own one, but for people looking at them it is very unattractive.

You would think someday that people would get tired of owning the same car that everyone else has, but with the Camry this doesn't seem to effect it at all. In 2-3 years we could see the Camry selling at 50K units a month if this trend holds. I never thought a car like the Camry was that exciting, but I guess people are just NUTS about it! Usually a fad like this will go out of style, but when it comes to Toyota I am not so sure that will ever happen. So does this mean all of DCX's problems are behind them now? Seems like all of the inventory should be sold up now at those sales rates.

To be fair...the Explorer has a LOT to compete against these days (in the same showroom for that matter)....Freestyle....Edge...Escape....all new Expedition. This isn't like the days when the Explorer was THE SUV from Ford.

Well if Ford is that concerned with being Number #4 maybe they should start fleet dumping again. Ford would look much more successful with bigger sales volumes.

I thought the Taurus was pretty much a North American only product.

Yes, I understand the definition, I just made the joke because Rondo does sound a lot like Ronco. How about The Tempo? :lol:

Well the Monte Carlo is about the only remnant left of the personal luxury couple market that became very popular in the mid 1970's and and contiuned to sometime in the early 1990's. Even the Grand Prix coupe is dead, along with the Regal. Monte Carlo sales are in the dumpster so I don't think it has much time left in this world. My father owned these types of cars for years and years including a 1976 Elite (if anyone remembers those), a 1980 Cougar, 1984 Thunderbird, 1990 Thunderbird and a 1994 Thunderbird. When it came time to replace the 94 he ended up getting a 2000 Taurus, which just got replaced by a new 2007 Fusion yesterday. Anyhow, he is the type of customer that loved those cars, but he is now 70 years old. I think a lot of the demographic that was interested in personal use luxury coupes have aged past that point and I don't think today's younger generation even cares about coupes, outside of sporty cars like the Mustang. It was a good run, but I just don't see a big couple like the last generation T-birds or Cougars ever making a return unless the whole market does a 180 degree shift. A Fusion coupe might be a very interesting entry in a more sporty FWD coupe market, but even that market is getting smaller except for sports cars. Those MN12's were good cars, I know I drove a lot of miles in my parents 1994, but it was a pig. It did not feel athletic at all and was terrible on ice and snow. Of course, they did not have traction control so I assume that made matters worse.

I honestly believe the so called "personal use" buyers of the SuperDuty still expect much more then just a fancy all new style. There are VERY FEW if any people who buy, even loaded, SuperDuties just to cruise empty around town. A lot of those loaded SuperDuties are purchased by people who tow 5-wheel travel trailers, enclosed car and snowmobile trailers, etc. I think that anyone considering a SuperDuty looks at much more then just style. SuperDuty looks good. Looks tough, in your face. I don't see a problem with the new SuperDuty. If it came down to towing a 40' 5-wheel travel trailer I'd take the new SuperDuty 6.4L Powerstroke anyday over the Chevy HD Duramax and not just for the engine.

I was not trying to argue that rear drums were an improvement, I was just trying to state that fact that rear brakes have very little effect over stopping distance. I agree, Ford must have done something to the rest of the vehicle or to the front brake system, like reduce rotor size or venting, etc, to get those results. Also, your right, suspension re-tuning might also be a problem. I am not exactly sure what happened there.

When I hear the name "Rondo" why does it make me think of this??? "Set it and forget it!"

What is the whole obession with needing 4 wheel disks on a non-performance vehicle? You do realize that around 80% of braking effort comes from the front disks anyhow. Yes, 4 wheel disks are superior, however when it comes down to real world performance I don't see where a vehicle with rear drums is going to be dangerous. My father just got a new 2007 Fusion SE V6 and the first thing I noticed is that he did not get ABS on it. I told him that he should have gotten ABS, he said his last car had it and he HATED it. Of course, he just turned 70 years old and I would assume he is more comfortable without it. No matter how hard he tried to break the old brake pumping habit he couldn't and found it harder to control in wet conditions.

What do you consider braking problems? Yes, some tests have shown the Edge to have a longer stopping distance then it's competitors, however reviews from new owner's don't show any concern about poor brake performance. How do you assume that the Escape/Mariner/Tribute have "braking problems?" Oh I know you are probably referring to the switch back to rear drums on most of the models, however I don't see how that equals "braking problems." You do realize that almost 80% of the braking effort comes from the front brakes? I bet the change back to rear drums will not effect stopping distance at all. We only believe that all vehicles need 4 wheel disk because of marketing. I am not saying that drums in the rear are better, however I don't think switching to rear drums will cause "significant braking problems" Nevermind, I see the braking test you are refering to from Edmunds now. How does that performance compare to the 2007 full disk model? I don't know does anyone?

I say give the guy and Ford a chance. They do need to downsize and who cares if they fall to #4, as long as the are profitable they can begin to build back up. No one knows for sure how long things are going to be rosy for GM or especially DCX. DCX is making all the mistakes that Ford made if not more, however they have the Germans backing them so they have a lot longer leash even if they are not successful. In another post I told about my family helping Ford just this afternoon. Thank goodness my brother is ok, but his 98 Accord is a total loss. He needed a good second car because his wife uses their '05 Mariner and he has to get to school to teach. I told him to ask my parents if they would sell their 2000 Taurus to him. They bought it new so he knows what he is getting and besides it gave my dad an excuse to get a new ride! Well anyhow they just got a new 2007 Fusion V6 today and I just got off the phone with him and after getting home with it, he said, I don't get why people think Ford builds crap these days. He said the car is great, miles above any other Ford car he ever bought, fit and finish is great and the price was hard to beat. A lot of value for the price of the car.

Well some people are still buying Fords. Looks like we have another new Ford in my family today. Of course, if it was not for a '98 Honda Accord giving its life after a 15 year old girl pulled out in front of my brother when he was on a highway at around 40-50 MPH it might have taken more time. Well anyhow my bro and sis-in-law have a '05 Mariner, but that is the wife's car. He had to have a second car so I told him maybe Mom and Dad would sell him their 2000 Taurus which they bought new. No matter the brand...getting a used car is all about how the person before took care of it. It has always been trouble free. So anyhow he called them and they said they would sell and are at the dealership picking up a brand new 2007 Fusion V6 right now. So a Ford is replacing a Honda in a round-about way. One more Ford on the road and one less Honda! Oh my brother is doing fine. Thank goodness he was wearing his seatbelt and had an airbag. He was able to walk away after being knocked out. The steering column was pushed down about 4 inches! I just was talking with my parents on the phone, they are doing the paperwork right now and are very excited!!!!!

The engine might make 350K, but will the chassis?

Even if you hate a group of people...you should still be enough of an adult to refrain from using language like that. If I used that word or the N word around my house my mother or father would have washed my mouth out with soap.