BTV to SHV Transferee

Wow, Am I glad I didnt work at any of your plants. We have had some rough elections over the years but nothing like the ones you all have up there in Michigan! First of all, if an election is thought to be 'rigged' then all you have to do is contact the NLRB and then they will conduct an investigation and re-election, but at the Local's exspense. That will cost the local probably 3 times the regular dollar amount for an election. 98+% chance of the election turning out the same as before with a few vote changes here and there but probably with the same outcome. The way elections are held now, its kinda hard to 'rig' an election. Why doesnt the Local have an independent organization oversee the election? We have an election comittee and they just basically man the voting polls and count the votes with an oversee'er. Not hard to do folks! As you all trash talk and back stab each other as to who is the best and worst, the company just sits back and laughs at you. As for a plant chairman or comittee just sitting by and letting a plant go to the wayside and be closed, they just didnt sit by and let it happen, the auto customer did that! Ford, as with all the other auto companies were over capacitized. We at Local 863 saw one of ours close to, but not because of the committee, we had obsolete product and nothing to replace it. (this post is not an official posting from UAW Local 863 in anyway. It doesnt represent the Officers, Committees, Membership or Retiree's nor is the opinion of the aformentioned) Btv to Shv

I guess you dont see the sarcasm in the original post? It's the same as the healthcare debate, but using the fire department! DUH! BTV to SHV

Although I agree in theory, but with the banking consolidations, some branches are overlapping. Wells Fargo and others keep buying all the bad banks and there is no need for overlapping services. ATM's were thought to take away the tellers jobs years ago, but look at any bank web sites careers page and teller jobs are everywhere. Not only are the letter carriers affected, the letter sorters & machine techs, truck maintenance, air freight, ground freight, envelope makers, stamp printers, paper mills. I almost dont feel sorry for these leeches, but the good guy that has one office and when you walk in, he knows who you are, I feel bad for that guy not the national company that he sells for. I understand their plight with illegal downloaders but people have come to accept I-Tunes and the likes as their music source. At $.99 per tune, that something even the illegal downloaders have come to terms with. No one cares for album art anymore. It was a late 60's into the 70's thing for album art. When the cassette came along, you could barely see any pics or the writting in the cover anyway. As for CD's, if you would see the way they were mass produced, no one really has lost any jobs. Robots in a clean room do all the work. The artist are making up the difference with their lost album sales in their concert ticket & memorabilia prices. see answer to music industry. When everyone is out of a job, no one left to buy their cheap made in mexico, korea or china crap! Be glad you brought your children into this world. Teach them that the world is an ugly place and how it got that way. But also teach them they dont have be a part of the ugly! Teach them how to survive and stand on their own, but in unity! Work hard as their brother/sister next to them and make sure they get a fair shake! Teach them that they too can be a contributor to this ugly world and not worship the almighty dollar! The dollar is the most evil thing in our country! People kill for it. People voluntarily die for it. People use it to enslave you for them (when you take out a mortgage, you are now a slave to the lender). Thats my $.02 Btv to Shv

Not to sound like I'm trying to correct anyone, but there are 173 ILO's in Ohio (98 from Sharonville alone). The bidding was open to all in Ohio, working, TLO'd or ILO'd. Sandusky was slated to close in 2012 but no one knows for sure. You can read the original posting from UAW Local 2000's web site: Sandusky Bid Posting Now for a retiree's take on this: Although I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but this should have only been for those on ILO rather than anyone in Ohio. Those on ILO already are facing losing their SUB and are now going into TAP (This is where you thank your republican senators). On the other hand, I understand why those at OHAP, Cleveland Casting, Maumee Stamping or LIMA would choose to go back to Sandusky. Ride out a few years off the assembly lines. I'd probably do the same. But, we need to get our ILO's back to work and this would have done the trick for them. Let the flaming begin! BTV to SHV

Were the former employees of Local 400 members of Local 228 when the petition for election was filed for with the Intl Union and the NLRB? If the members from Local 400 came into Local 228 after the petition for election was filed, then the ex-Local 400 members wouldnt have the right to vote, under NLRB rules. I will have to research the exact rule for you, but its like stacking the deck with people after the petition is filed so one particular candidate will win. Also, now here is a thought, are there any ex-Local 400 members running for an elected office at Local 228? If so, was the ex-Local 400 member a Local 228 member prior to petition for election? If they was not a member prior to election, I would have to say that there is an NLRB violation. Also, are you sure that the ex-Local 400 members arnt still paying into the Local 400 treasury? If so, it would only be because the ex-Local 400's books need to be cleared and the left over funds after bills, taxes, wages and legal fees are paid will then be forfieted to the Intl either into a trusteeship fund (in case the ex-Local 400 would have any outstanding exspenses) or to the General fund. Some food for thought! Btv to Shv

Been a while since I've posted! As I have read the postings, I'm a bit disguted with a few Local 863 members, as they seem to try and make things their way and if something doesnt go their way, all they do is cry cry cry! Boo hoo, cry me a freaking river. WTF, looks like your being put in your place! Looks like Rascal and CD4EMAN has had enough of you. CD4EMAN has even called you out! If CD4EMAN is who I think he is, no lunch needed! Thank You Mick Padgett, you are showing true class by putting yourself on here, giving full details of your tenior and personal life that you really owe no-one, especially the upchucks that post on these boards. We need more members like you to do what the company and Union needs from the membership, Dedication! I gave alot of me, not so much in the past few years, but I gave more than my share! WTF, you can take a lesson from other members of the Local by quit crying and complaining. Do your part and step up and do whats right for the company and the Union. Be loyal to what you make and be loyal to your representation. The representation is a gift that was given to you by almost 60 years of hard labor and personal sacrifice by others. Now its time for you to give a little. 60 years ago, the men worked 100 times as hard for $25-$30 a week. Now our membership makes that per hour. How much of you are you willing to contribute? I'm going to say, NONE and I bet I'm Right! You have your hand out saying "Where's Mine?" and when they stop filling your pockets, you say the Union screwed you. Let me tell you. At $30.00 hr plus all the benefits and layoff benefits, if you feel screwed, you have fogotten what its like on the other side of Front Wheel Drive or Sharon Road! WTF - You need a reality check, BTW here a tissue to wipe up those tears! BTV to SHV

First of all, I started in 1977. Second, we had the option some years ago to goto Indy or face a layoff and burn out your SUB credits. Thats when we sometimes burned 10-15 SUB credits a week. The senior people on here will tell you that was how it used to be! Several from BTV and SHV went to Indy. Just ask around! Second, I fly in 2 times a year (every 90 days). We only have a Union meeting 4 times a year. I check up on my nine rental properties while i'm here, live in my regular home here, late April - November. I coordinate the flyins with the Union meeting, kinda to kill a couple birds with one stone kinda thing! Yes, its worth it to fly in and check on them! Third, why cant a retiree know what the hell is going on. Since I'm retired, does that mean I cant keep up to date with stuff? Remember, retirees need to know whats going on so they know where their pension and benefits are coming from! Fourth, I keep in touch with so many through email and phone calls, they keep me informed. I'm probably more informed than 95% of those working in the plant! Since there is only a 1-2% head count at any of the Union meetings! Fifth, why do so many at BTV or SHV have a problem with my posts? They are informative and about 95% accurate! I dont post doom and gloom unless the rain cloud is over us! Sheesh! Btv to Shv

If I had the chance to vote (retiree's dont vote) I would only vote YES to a no strike clause if: 1) Everyone currently on ILO - TLO - JSP (if any) were immediatly placed back into the plants they were ILO -TLO - JSP'd from. 2) Give each worker a 'Guarantee of Work' until Sept 2015 3) Up the Cash buyout to $140,000 and sever all ties immediatly without revocation. When you sign it, they cut the check on the spot you hand them your badge, you get the escort to the gate, maybe a handshake. (Yes, this can be done). I bet there will be a line, albiet a short one, but there will be a line. 4) Up the retirement cash buyout for trades & techs to $160,000 5) Lower the 28 year / sit at home for 85% retirement plan to 27 Years. There will be line line for this one too! 6) Give the VEBA 1 million shares of stock, but not to be sold for 1 year 7) Reduce the new hires at company wide 2nd tier wages from 20% to 17% (Except for the Rawsonville provision) . If they did 5 out of the seven, then they would have my YES vote. But I cant vote anyway! BTV to SHV

The only thing that will get people back to work is if the Focus (FN) & F-250-350-450, E-Series vans (5R110W and replacement) have at least 30% more sales and the New Taurus & Escape (6R - 6F) sells like gangbusters! Just so you know, the GEN and JSP are the same thing. After the next 12 weeks when your SUB runs out, you will get TAP (50% of your base pay) but your health insurance will probably stop. Better get to the doc now! TAP will last 6 months and then you have exhausted all monetary benefits, but retain your recall rights. If you get a call to go out of town to another plant, you better take it! I did years ago (Indy) and made my way back to BTV (RTBU) and then back to SHV - then to retirement! Sales are what will get you back into the building! If and when you get back to work and you see the guy working next to you and you know he bought a competitor vehicle, thank him for the layoff and the food you couldnt put on the kids plate because he choose to not support his own company! SHV isnt out of the woods yet! The only reason SHV is still there is because of KTP. Other than that, SHV would be just like BTV! BTV to SHV

If this was true, dont you think the chinese or japs would have already been all over this guy and not put a dime into the almighty prius. This is just like "GM and Ford have a 100mpg carburetuer on the shelf but wont release it because they're in bed with the oil companies'. The oil speculators just about killed all the car companies last year, dont the ya think the oil companies would have told the speculators to back off if they were all in bed with each other? If this guy is for real, then I better start planting my corn!

Looks like you need to re-read his statement. He clearly makes the point that the labor agreements didnt put Ford in the shape they are in, that spending their profits from the 90's and early 2000's in europe and mexico is what made them in bad shape! He also said that Ford hasnt made 3 billion profit in over 100 years in mexico. He can demand all he wants. It's what the company wants to do. The Union cant tell the company how to run the business. But the Union can negotiate new product being built in the USA.

OK folks, Simple math here: If person A works for auto company 1, person A needs persons C - Z to buy from auto company 1 so person A can make a paycheck. If person A buys from auto company 1, then he pads his own pocket and persons C - Z see that person A believes that auto company 1 makes a great quality product that person A works for! If person A buys from auto company 2, then persons C - Z see that person A drives from auto company 2, then why would persons C - Z buy from auto company 1? Auto company 1 then goes out of business because person A that worked for auto company 1 pumped up his chest, thumped it saying he'll buy what ever he wants. Persons C - Z see this also, so they then buy from auto company 2. Then person A holds his hat-in-hand at the unemployment line, telling the mortgage company he cant pay the mortgage, electric company cuts his service, cell phone then is cut, possibly divorce is next. Person A then wonders why auto company 1 went out of business as he hides his vehicle from auto company 2 from the repo-man. He then blames the company for mismanagement, then cries his sorrows that the UAW did nothing about the company going under. Who is smiling? Person B that works for auto company 2 It's simple math folks! BUY what you make! Pad your own pocket now so the company can pad your pocket when you retire! BUY what your neighbor makes so he can buy what you make! YES, Buy American, Buy Union

So this guy has personal grudge because his dad lost his health benefits? His dad didnt loose the pension as stated. The pension is his unless it was an open ended pension for Eastern corporate to raid! There just isnt anymore contributions to that particular pension fund. So when the fund is dry, it's dry! I guess his dad was management and not part of the Airlines Pilots Assn, Teamsters, Intl Assn of Machinist or Flight Attendants Union? Do some research and you'll see the afformentioned Union's made sure the former Eastern Airlines workers pensions were preserved. The pensions might have dried up by now, but they were preserved. The management pensions were open ended so corporate can raid it for the cash! Kinda what IBM did in the late 80's to their workers. Our UAW pensions are NOT open ended and belong to US, the UAW workers. That is the only reason The big 3 hasnt been able to raid them! This letter is clearly another shot at labor! The war has been on for 30 years! He blames the UAW for all of Chrysler's woes. Next he will blame the UAW for all of GM & Ford's woes. The big 3 woes are to blame on crappy design, mpg's and quality. Ford seems to have addressed 2 (design & quality) of the 3 and the third not far from being completed. The other Detroit 2 see the light, but they didnt jump on the train a few years ago when it left the station!

Folks, this isnt nothing new for Unions'. There are thousands of labor contracts out there that have 'No Strike' clauses in them. In return for the No strike there is a "No Lockout' clause also. The company cant lock you out and you cant strike during the duration of the current labor agreement. On Sept 15 ,2011 at 12:00am, the No Strike and No lockout become null if there isnt an agreement. But I see an arbitrator decideing a contract for the Chrysler Workers before the Spet 15, 2011 12:00am deadline!

Here is where Ford needs to make the move: Go to Chrysler and buy Jeep and Caravan/Town & Country lines. How does Ford do this? Go to a private financier, not a bank (insert negative comment here). Present the plans. Buy the brands and have the new brands be under a subsidiary label, make the Explorer a brand instead of a model. The Explorer Jeep, The Explorer Cherokee or The Explorer Caravan. Once they buy the brands, then dump just about all the Jeep models since most of them are ugly and dont sell well anyway, Keep the Wrangler and all versions of it. Keep building the Caravan/ T&C the way they are, but change the RAM front end. Buying the brands doesnt mean buy the plants. Incorporate the business within Ford and their plants so all the Ford workers get the work and secure the Ford Workers Heritage and Tradition. Chrysler's heritage and tradition went down the tube 25 years ago! Just my two cents, Btv to Shv Transferee

Toyota Closing Plant in Western KY The Golden Goose isnt so golden anymore! With Honda giving buyouts and Toy'motor' closing plants kinda puts the Jap plants down to our level!

Started the First day of December 2008, ended the last day of February 2009 - This is known as the Fiscal Year! We lost COLA the first week of March anyway. We were lucky in the 2007 agreement to have $2.05 rolled over into our base wage or we would have lost a total of $3.08 with this new agreement! Your lucky they dont retroactively make you re-pay COLA for the first week of March that was paid.

In a way, You do vote. You vote when you sign the authorization card to be a Union member. Currently, you only have to have 30% of the eligible workforce within your workplace to call a vote. But 50% plus 1 has to vote in favor for the Union. If the Union wins, then the company drags out the contract negotiations for sometimes years. But the Employee Free Choice Act will make the company and Union's differences be settled by binding arbitration. Basically a third un-biased party will decide for you. The arbitrator is decided by the NLRB with five arbitrators listed and the company and Union widle the list down to one. The company strike one off the list, the Union strikes one off the list untill 1 is left and there you have your arbitrator! Companies have been hiring Union busting lawyers for years and scaring away possible Yes votes for Union organizing drives. They tell you the shop will close and they will just move elsewhere. They tell you that you will go on strike and loose your home, get divorced, loose your family, basically anything to get you to vote no. The Union then files an un-fair labor practice and the company is usually found guilty but only pays a small fine and they do have to post a ruling in the shop, but only after the Union is voted down and the people have to wait 365 days before they can try again. Then before another vote, most of the Yes employees have either been fired for something else or have quit! Just what the company wants! The companies have complete power without a Union and they want it to stay that way! The Republicans fired the first shots across the bough of the Labor vs. Republican-Big Business fight that will happen the next 4 years. Remember back in December, when the Auto companies and the UAW got grilled by the Senate and House of Reps? Who was doing all the grilling??? Those right-to-work state Senators! They have the old 'let them work for nothng and just be happy you have a job while I get rich' attitude! these Senators have promised Mercedes, Hyundai, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and VW that NO Union's will be in their plants! The republicans are firing their guns at the woking people and most are oblivious to it! The Detnews article is just a small cannon ball compared to daily talk radio, foxnews and fox business channel. Notice the smug looks and comments given by corker & shelby??? did you listen to their remarks about the job banks? Sub Pay? Health Care? Pensions? VEBA's? Guess what, none of the constituants in Tenn or Alabama have those perks and they promissed all the foreign companies that their people wont get them either. Other Union busting companies include Overnite trucking (now UPS Freight and NOW Teamsters), USF Freight, FedEX, pick any meat packing company and many many of the smaller airlines! The war is on! Great question from another post! Which side will you be on?

Cincy, I am NOT Mickey P. I have only spoken to the guy you think I am only a few times. If I told you who I was, your jaw would hit the floor! You need to wise up and attend the Union meetings and hear for yourself the why's & what's of what actually happens. Then if by chance you do attend a meeting, step up to the mic ad say your peace! I dont think I have to go out on a limb and say you dont attend meetings. I do believe you just listen to shop talk and make your ill-informed decisions. BTW, I'm retired and I'm sitting in Florida. I've been retired since 2007. Although I do stay active with the local. I also fly back to Cincinnati for the Local & Retiree's meetings! Piece some of those clues together and you just might figure out who I am. Besides, behind this keyboard, I can be who ever I want to be! :shades:

Cincy, it doesnt matter who holds the pension. And the ZF pension was aquired by Ford through the succesorhip clause in the ZF labor agreement. Which mean Ford had to take over the pension, per funding and management. Also in the agreement for ZF workers to become Ford workers the pension fund had to be fully funded by 12/31/04 and the Ford pension had to reconize the ZF workers as Ford employees and fully fund pension payments under the Ford pension under the new Ford workers name. That is why they have a 1/1/05 pension time, not hire in date. Under PBGC rules, any company buying another and aquiring employees CAN NOT make back payments under the current pension in the new aquired employees name. Just ask any steelworkers across the land from a closed then reopened steel mill. Their former pension is still in tact from their former employer but their new employer reconized their seniority but has to contribute to a new pension (most have dumped the pension and gone with 401k's). The only reason there still is a ZF pension is because there was a separate labor agreement attached to that particular pension as per PBGC rules. The ZF pension is only monitored through the name you have given but is a Fidelity pension. Ford or any other company just cant terminate or dump the ZF pension into the Ford pension, as per PBGC rules.

For the same reason YOUR personal information isnt out there for all to see. So far, the IRS hasnt given YOURS or IUAW Officials personal info to anyone because no one has gone in front of a Federal Judge with a compelling reason to release the personal info! The anti-union right-to-work foundation hasnt even been succesful to obtain any Unions' Officials personal income and tax returns! DUH! Get your head out of the sand!

I cant believe this has to be answered. Go to the U.S. Dept of Labor and request a LM Report for the Intl, Region & Local. It is free and they will mail it to you. There you will find what your Intl, Region & Local President, Representatives and anyone else that has received a check from the Union down to the toilet scrubber! BTW, you can get any Union's LM report. Do some home work. Also, why are you attacking the UAW, you need to attack the buying public for buying japaneese & korean! The buying public is to blame, not Ford or the UAW!

ACE45014, this has been answered many, many times here on the forums about Batavia Ford & ZF employees. The ZF employees saved the Ford employees from hitting the street in 2004 as Batavia Transmissions had not agreed to keep using Ford employees as contract/leased employees (ask any Visteon/Ford employee about being a leased employee). The only reason Ford employees were in the building was because the UAW had an agreement to build the CD4E with Ford employees and would have cost the company millions to relocate the machinery. So ZF agreed to lease the Ford employees throughout the CD4E life cycle (originally scheduled to end in 2004). The CD4E got lucky by the CVT's failure, so it had a 3 year extended life span. When Ford bought the plant back, the ZF employees had a succesorship clause in their agreement which means BTV Transmissions agreed to the terms of the ZF agreement. Also, since there was 2 labor agreements, that is why Ford created Btv Transmissions and not just a regular Ford Plant. The BTV bargaining team actually saved 800 Ford employees jobs by merging the two bargaining units. The company fiercly fought this merger as they didnt want any more employees under the Ford Master Agreement. But at the Eleventh hour, Ford caved in. How did merger of the two bargaining units save Ford emploee jobs? The 6F and 6R and the 5R110W replacement are all ZF designs! I whole heartily believe that the carrot Ford threw out to the UAW to keep BTV open under separate labor agreement was all the 6F & 6R work, because they BTV Trans employees were under a different labor agreement. But the Intl and local wanted all employees and convinced 100% of ZF workers to become Ford employees. The only way ZF employees would have voted to become Ford employees was to maintain their hire in date seniority. Also, on the Pension side of things, The ZF-Batavia Pension and Ford Pension plans have now been merged! This is all legal and actually was merged in 2005. BTW, your pension time is credited by the amount of hours worked and not by years of service!

I just dont get why the so-called 'experts' want the BIG 3 to fail. They just dont get that if the BIG 3 fail, so do all the suppliers, transporters and other jobs that go down too. The 2 in the video say "so be it to" 3 million jobs lost. I guess they will be the ones serving the soup in the soup lines chuckling about their minimum wage job that they have and that you dont have one!

Hmmmm...... Trimdingman where the hell have you been? We dont have sub-credits anymore. And NO we dont contribute to the sub fund. It is purely company funded. Although it is topped out at 944 million at the begining of each contract but you or I dont contribute to it.