JETSOLVER

That would be the upcoming A8 then... AFWIW, How many of H groups 500 000 units used to be Fords share? I'm guessing about a third... Why is it so hard for some of you to understand why the domestics took such a bath on all that lost share? THEY DID IT TO THEMSELVES!!!! You can scoff, but if I was one of the many many people Ford has laid off, I would probably wander over to a product line that grew up pretty much in the time it took to loose my job. And probably be a bit surprised at the fact that it was darn good value. Heck, I can even imagine a former salaried worker at Ford who wanted a car, seeing as how they lost their job and all, purchasing the car with better pricing and perceived value that all those other people thought of as if not better, a cheaper equivelant. Why can't you?

Darnitt, this has been bugging me for weeks. There is a speculative bubble in oil right now, but its not supported by long term trends. There is no less oil in the ground in the gulf than a few weeks ago, more in Iraq and Iran, Russia is getting its head out of its but, Africa will come on line (I fear the body count short term with this bubble though), and heavy oil synthetics are poised to shift the market( three years MAX). Personal transport for over a decade now has been getting bigger, heavier, wider, and taller. That has lead to higher power numbers and a gradual, but better fuel economy (adjusted for mass). Or has anyone else happened to see the Corolla over a few generations side by each? Yes, domestics for the most part have a bad product mix. Right now. But after every other oil price shock since the 50's, within hours of consumer perception of a fall to realistic demand supply pricing (and it will happen, oh yes) North America went right back to buying that same type of vehicle we prefer, big, lots of torque and full of toys. So is it smart to give up long term sales of big cars that we know we as a society prefer? Ones with heightened attention to economy, emissions, and material technology? Ecoboost merely recaptures what is already around the corner, doesn't it? Or should perhaps we all just take a deep breath, learn to live within the current and temporary cycle, and hope that a few honest , er, capable leaders realize the possible end game, (alternatives to oil) is going to take a while, no matter the hue and cry, and just get through this? Or is this going to become a bloodbath (metaphor, please), and we try and force a bunch of product that no one wants out just to keep the fires stoked? Is it really worth another generation of Vega's and Pinto's (and that little dodge thing, whatever it was, Crikket?) and turning yet another generation away from domestic small cars? Because if there is a panic in Detroit and half arsed stuff comes to market, that is going to happen. Again. I just don't see how or if a kneejerk reaction can make any of this differ in any way. In the end, oil will come back down, not to what it once was, but certainly to what the market with choices will pay. Putting an I4 in a pickup is not going to make for repeat customers. Nor is trying to pass off a C1/C2 as a Lincoln (yes, I have read that in more than one place, including here!). But a rush to incomplete hybrids (see batteries and all the special systems, from alternators to A/C that have to be different), or this affair with bio-fuels (surely the long term potential consequences are visible from here, right?) or trying to change 100 years of infrastructure on the fly (we can't even get the decrepit stuff on the ground now to work, let alone try quick mods to the crumbling systems we have to deal with). Just seems to me reading the news today, that people (great flock of cattle we are) are running around hoping not to hit a fence. Not that it would change anything in the near to mid term if we did. But there are potential downsides to the future if we do not take the time to plan a longer term map than just, in our fans of Ford case, 2011. Peace, and thanks for reading if you did.

Leftlane on the small trucks :reading:

+ CAN'T MAKE ENOUGH TO SUPPLY INCREASED DEMAND Quick primer on diesel

I'll bet that the law of unintended consequences strikes hard here. The new regulations for emissions were intended to help with this transition, but the urgency of the market has shocked everyone. All those golden oldies were just dropped to get the next gen to market in a hurry. What is the time to market for some of these certs? 14 months? Even as they slash white collar types? Its a strange kind of consumer panic, and the effects are painful to behold.

Forgetting the crack whore thing(I'm not aware of that particular demographic ), currency fluctuations can change this game in a heartbeat these days. Last year, in the space of 90 days, us Canadians found out that we had some leverage, and the manufacturers shifted pricing in less than two months. And sales went up. Currency trading is so volatile in times like these, a point here and there adds up in a hurry.

You nailed the priority list, but people outside the industry tend to forget about the supplier issues. Sure the majors get hit hard with falling sales, but the small suppliers get a solid one two in the face. They have to contend with lower revenue from hulking item managers, AND have to create and entire new class of integrated componentry from scratch, all the while contemplating insane overhead increases. I don't know how many this go round will cost the tier II and III group, but its hard to surge an entire industry when they are literally sleeping in the shop. They have my respect for doing it, but I got out of that sort of thing years ago, and do not regret the stress one little bit.

sigh I realize we are here to follow Ford, but skipping over reality is not going to help big Blue at all. 20 years ago they sold 0 units. Last year about 500 000. With what dealers I spoke with say is a pretty high return rate. And they have been well above average in quality and like benchmarks for several years now. All things we wish that Ford was doing. So now, this same company decides to take on mid lux(a market left for dead by the big three for over a decade, one they are now trying to reclaim), and although there was talk of going to a higher end dealer network (just like Acura, Lexus and Infinity back in the day) they determined otherwise. If you don't think this is a big deal, more is the pity. I have no doubt that the worlds 6th largest manufacturer intends to spin many niche cars off of this product, and the idea of a sub Mustang price 300 horse RWD car should be causing some extra pots of coffee in the glass house. Not to mention the thought of a stripper V6 version of this thing as taxicabs. The very fact that they decided to take this one to the fence scares the hell out of me, as I could not have conceived just 15 years ago that any manufacturer would DARE to build a car to compete in the big three's home field. Now, they almost don't notice what Detroit is doing. No, there is good reason to consider this, and I fully intend to drive one asap. If its like other H group stuff, I will be pleasantly suprised, and now that they have finally gotten rid of that Korean new plastic smell, I might even be able to recommend it to someone in the right circumstance. Game changer indeed. and for the usual suspects, yes Apr numbers are down, but of course so are Fords. Along with the entire industry. And FWIW everywhere else that silly Phaeton shows up in stuff like the Audi A8 and other VW group product. Nothing happens in a vacuum, even though it seems some would like it to. Or can I show you something in a continental?

I think I know how the business world will treat Fords stewardship of a pretty great brand(s), but I have to wonder how the detailed postmortem will look. I look forward to the right sort of business school case study(Harvard or Wharton maybe?) I have always sort of planned on having a nice XK for one of my last cars, and I believe that Tata might understand enough of that heritage to make that dream a reality. For those who don't know or haven't been there, India is a pretty special place, and jumping from a billion 3rd worlders to an instant middle class has made for some interesting demographics(and skill!). If you can cherry pick from a billion people, you get some pretty damm good talent at the top of the pile. And those people are driven to make positive change in their world. Its a cultural thing.

As we face global economic recession I came across a pretty stunning look at a part of humanity most of us here know little about. commonground on "Who Speaks for Islam, What a Billion Muslims Really Think "Who Speaks for Islam? What a Billion Muslims Really Think is based on six years of research and more than 50,000 interviews representing 1.3 billion Muslims who reside in more than 35 nations that are predominantly Muslim or have sizable Muslim populations. Representing more than 90% of the world's Muslim community, this poll is the largest, most comprehensive study of its kind. The results defy conventional wisdom and the inevitability of a global conflict – even as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan continue." I recommend this one to any and all(libraries are cool), and hope you will form your own opinion as to what this means to you and yours. I know I changed some thinking.

Ford Media on Best Interior nomination Wow, didn't see that one coming. Good news all around today. OOPS! You don't get Ford media when you hang around here? Hmm, I'lll share the dipshit part fairly. :stats:

If you think there is a lack of idiocy, check this compendium of that sort of thing. Dozens to hundreds on a good(bad?) day. http://www.fark.com/ One of the great websites I hit daily, if for no other reason than to have an answer to "what's new" every day. And some of the best photoshops on the planet. :happy feet: )

Why is this not in my inbox from Ford Media? This is the sort of thing that can start to pull back that key consumer confidence in Ford, and more important than even the MKS stuff that is. Shout from the roooftops, and write it in the sky Ford, this is the mortgage payment right here.

No smilie for jealousy! I really can't wait to see how and where it cross shops the CTS, a car I am now very familiar with in the new gen. The big three trying to take back mid lux is going to require superior product and customer relationships(the dealers may be the make or break on this) to regain what they had. The new Caddy is good, and looks to open new markets going forward. I hope the Lincoln can find its niche as well. And, its damm pretty. :shades:

"I need to grow 9 more fingers........" Or Dragon Naturally Speaking if I ever get freakin vista sorted. :titanic:

Strange you should say that. The original always struck me as a big car, and the third gen seemed quite a bit smaller, inside and out, even though that was just visual. Now, the 500 ne Tauri seems huge to the eye and a parking spot. Really notice the height when I walk out to one at the airport.

Man, this particlular launch has to go right, or all hell is going to break loose. Can you imagine the media guff if reality is a witch? Many sleepless nights for the powertrain gang I'll wager. Hope they get the numbers.

Ought to, seeing as how much simpler it is. Fact is the Stang is as light as can get at this price on this platform. Until some(lots?) next gen tech is used on a new think platform, the car will only get heavier. Sign of the times. Saftey, low cost materials, and engineering choices are all making decisions for Ford. On the other hand, keeping the increase down will probably add cost. Which is the Stangs one clear market advantage. I suspect competition will put some heavy pressure on that restyle.

More or less my thoughts. Is there a styling direction, or is the 3 bar and a current Euro face the best these choppers can do? Or, is there no direction for the next gen? I look back at recent concepts with perplexity. A Giugiaro 'Stang (perhaps the most American of ALL cars), the stunning solid Interceptor, the Verve swoop, and a nicer, friendlier bunch of trucklets. I can accept my being confused, but I wonder about the glass house. At least the Super Duty is still what it always was... :shades:

Wonder if the current updated C1 will make an appearance in any way. I know what I've read about Ford NA and small cars, but seems a relatively quick way to field a higher perceived quality and content(one assumes profit as well?) small car here. And we can assume that that's what Alan wants? Or, is production constrained on that program?

Unless your entire driving career has been spent with FWD. As those of us who grew up with big, heavy and drum braked big blocks will attest, the transition to FWD drive was interesting under duress. They don't act the same. I agree that new systems are mostly seamless, but even Porsche had issues with the first and second gen of management systems disconcerting older owners. And they don't sell volume to people who we hope are cross shopping the usual suspects. A very good system can fool even the aware into believing otherwise, but the fact that having to design to a common denominator allows for possible issues with the unaware(think about the guff around ABS, stunning as it seems to some of us!). I suspect that the point is that a mis-step will cost much in media crap and perception(which is why the big Blue has to try so much harder than the facts might indicate). Perception is EVERYTHING in volume marketing. Ask Msoft why we put up with the endless updates, for a system that effectively does exactly what the last version did. We are all cattle in our own way when it comes to purchase decisions. Otherwise the global marketing industry wouldn't exist, because all we would have is the "right" choice. And for Sixt9coug, you are correct that the very idea is cool, except that Ford(in general, if not specifics), here is shooting at a moving target, one that has, at least by sales and profit numbers, taken its market leading position away. Is the new Tauri group enough to take the T and H numbers back? Thats a lot of product, all here hope so. Edit: Rmc, you are correct, but didn't the discussion about the need to differentiate product for unique markets vice unification already have a glass house conclusion otherwise?

Careful, you might get called out for suggesting something on an internet board. And if one wants an enthusiast vehicle, one should take a lesson from Ford and all that they said about the S-197 program. Recall reading in every mag for over a year about how they were "baking" in performance atributes from engineering spark 1? The chassis is good for making a buck at the rental car level all the way up to "supersnake". A lesson learned from stitching the SN-95 program together by SVT(pretty good by the time the program ended, admittedly). It seems to me that if an organization is planning many varients of a common platform or system, they had better overshoot the mark early. As opposed to trying to re-engineer it later. That is ALWAYS the more expensive and unsatisfactory way to accomplish the task.

Enthusiasts by definition spend more time and money on purchase choices. I am saying that a product that is suggested to debut by next summer (say 14 months from now) that is already effectively behind the 8 ball (both within the media, and the extended mass perception of Ford), is a bit of missing the shot. Again. Or still if you prefer. FWIW I am yet again putting money aside for my next new machine(enthusiast, remember?) the new CTS-V. Just like I did for my 94 Stang GT, my 97 SVT COBRA, and my 07 Cayman. Perhaps that is the problem here, that ST is not for enthusiasts, despite the viral marketing that just occured by focus grouping the SHO types. And as for the board, it wouldn't exist without this sort of thing.

Assuming that the top trim level lux model gets a detuned version of same(and I read that as a pretty safe assumption), yup. SVT was predicated on a top to bottom look at the product to focus it for specific buyers. If this (ST) is the end of the SVT legacy, its kind of soft, speaking as a former new owner of said product. One that paid around a 30% premium for said product and perfectly happy to do so, believing I got darn good value for it. I sure wouldn't pay that for a tweaked engine and shocks. I doubt that 15% of prospective Tauri owners would either.

So, that ends the flush of anticipation for a proper SHO. That lasted about a week. Good Job Ford boys and girls, you really don't get it do you? You got more word of mouth and viral marketing for that one suggestion than you have in a VERY long time. Like years. And a half baked version is the result. You're going to get killed by the mass media rags etc. AND that means that what currently passes for SVT is doing nothing. Nice. And for the lack of that nothing, they expect the modern, educated and cost concious buyer to settle for this to the tune of 12/15% of total production? Things are even worse than I imagined if that is the plan. Unlike with SVT stuff, they had better not be intending to charge a heavy premium for this bit of badge manipulation. Same engine, different shocks and spring rates. Betcha somebody in the leftover marketing dept thinks that will pass for performance in the current era. Sadly mistaken if so. And does that mean that the rest of the Tauri don't get the IRS? (hoping that is irony) FTA "Suspension-wise, the ST will feature a sport tuned version of Ford's new SR1 (Shock Ratio 1) suspension. The SR1 setup is a new independent rear suspension that will debut on Lincoln's MKS" So is there anyway that that IRS can be stuffed under a proper Mustang? I mean one that isn't stickered up to within an inch of its life? Rats, I was hoping for more.