goingincirclez

We can only hope! What a classic - and classy - styling cue. I sort of understood the use of the emblem on the '97 edition, which was a little softer and more rounded, but now that "bricks are back" in terms of styling, nothing says "tough" like a name embossed in metal for all time. By comparison, a badge can fall off. Agreed also on the original post - the grille emblems are indeed getting out of hand. I especially HATE the chrome ring around the collar emblem on the Fusion. An emblem should be understated. The car should draw you in and make you say "what's that", and you have to hunt for it. THEN you remember it. I always loved how the 80's T-birds and later mustangs had no blue ovals at all. Those cars spoke for themselves.

Yeah, and they idea behind THAT was thus: they didn't pass them up by blind stupid default; they have a good experience, and so they actually may indeed consider another Ford product in the future...

Perhaps, but only in terms of "scale" (i.e. "what constitutes a 'leap'?") So Ford won't have any problem retaining those customers concerned with towing & payload. GREAT! Now why is there ANY reason they shouldn't look at why others choose to buy a Ram (HP), GMT900 (HP, FE), or Tundra (???) and make sure the new F-150 beats them as well? So you make sure the F-150 leads ALL key categories, and there's no compelling argument that could be made against it from any angle. THAT is what the next leap would be. And somebody will do it one day.

But see, you just contradicted yourself. Share was largely stable between Ford and GM, UNTIL Dodge redid the Ram for 1994 and jumped to a 20% share... which has continued to be something they can (and have to) rely on. Look. I'm not saying that the current F-150 is a "crap-heap". Far from it. But your post is proof-positive that the release of a product that leapfrogs the competition and represents real sea-change in product philosophy can do wonders for a company. So Ford is going to retain and perhaps improve its leadership in the areas where they have always maintained it. Big deal; that's the bare minimum acceptable in this market and anything less should get people fired. But with more players trying to carve out the pie, why should Ford NOT come out of the gate, throw down the gauntlets and say "Here, check THIS on for size? Gotcha b***hes!" You just proved that this could be done, vis-a-vis the '94 Ram, which also proved that loyalty is always for sale. If it weren't then that Ram would have done jack squat, and Toyota couldn't sell Tundra one. If Ford could come up with a similar coup, they could go from 35% share to 45% or better, instead of pandering to the same ol' same ol'.

"These days"? Hell, that's basically all they changed on the 97 T-bird "Sport" as well (in addition to larger wheels). Point is they've been playing the sport-faker package game for at least 10 years now. Revise some cheapo suspension components, tack on a few cosmetic goodies (wheels, spoiler), keep the drivetrain the same, and there you go. Now, having owned and driven MN12 T-birds with and without the "sport" package, I can say this: Yes, it's largely a poser option. But, it does make a difference. The standard MN12's were comfy and floaty but the "sport" package did give it a little more snap when it came to handling, especially hard cornering. Really, it was a lot more fun, especially with a set of good tires. Did it have stompin' HP? No. But could you have fun and cross the twisties and snap corners if you liked? Sure thing. The Fusion Sport sounds like a good deal... were I in the market for that car I would add it in a heartbeat.

Tried that.... "Wait 16 years" was the response

AHH... I ALMOST FORGOT THE BEST PART OF THE STORY! So, I have discovered that my almost-3-year-old daughter, is TRULY a girl after her daddy's heart. Because at both Ford dealerships we visited, she was INSTANTLY drawn to just ONE car on the sales floor. Each time, it was the Shelby Cobra. (she especially liked the logo: "Look daddy... a SNAKE!") :D

Eh, I didn't think it was too off-topic. Even if it were, that's par fer the course on BON is it not? :shades: Dean, I appreciate your insight. Especially the case of how Pat Kain ended up egging himself... really, I didn't have anything against him or the dealer personally until that came off as a flagrant, stankpile lie. I mean... I'm human. We're ALL human. So a dealer can make an honest mistake. Just own up to it! And Bob's mistakes were many. He was too full of himself, put all his faith in one deal that fell though on his end, apparently kept expecting other people to give him details, and just flat-out wouldn't listen to me toward the end. It's a shame because the dealer with "shiny new state of the art facilities" came across as a shyster. And the one whose service department had done everything a customer could possibly hope for, had its sales staff shoot itself in the foot. This all just goes to show that it takes 100% on all sides. And honestly... I could well be in the market for a brand-new car some day. And where might I be inclined to start? Perkins Eastside Chrysler - which wouldn't be good for Ford, would it?

CONCLUSION Now, I’m not stupid enough to have all my irons in one fire. While I was waiting for Bob to come around, I spent a lot of time (maybe too much) trolling on Autotrader. I must have looked at 500 Freestyles, all in the name of comparison and evaluation. I considered buying from places as far as Indianapolis. When I discovered that Chicago cars are about $2000-3000 cheaper on average, I considered buying from there as well. But here’s one question I gotta ask: Why the hell would a dealer pay to list a car on Autotrader and then list nothing about it? There were at least 4 cars close to me that had a bare listing such as “2005 Ford Freestyle SE $19,750. You must contact Joe Blow for this price”. No info, no options, no photos, nothing. Yeah, now THERE’S a perfect use of the internet for ya. Regardless, there were 4 other nearby listings I inquired about. Two of them never got back to me (yeah, what are they paying money for again). The third replied quickly but was ruled out for other reasons (no fault of theirs). The fourth was actually the first one I inquired, back when the adjustable pedals were on the “must have” list. The salesman replied to inform me that his car did not have them (it was an SEL). But he was the quickest to reply, very thankful for our inquiry, offered his help in any way and just seemed like a nice guy. His name was Bill. His dealership was in Louisville. This exchange first took place shortly after Bob offered to find us a car. As I said, pedals were high on the want list at that time but as the days went on, we rethought our position. I sort of forgot about Bill in Louisville until I realized that, hey, wow, their SEL is damn near a Limited in every way except for the pedals (and heated seats and 18” wheels). And it is about $4000 less than all the others… is there a reason for that? On Friday Sept 28, when we got to our hotel (after Bob once again dropped the ball) I had an email from Bill, asking if we were still interested. Very nice of him… so I replied and said that we were working on another lead, but thanks to his inquiry I would put his car on the short list, but we would no be able to look until Tuesday (I was hoping Bob would come through on Monday). Bill thanked me for that info and said he would let me know if anything developed. Well, you all know what happened Monday AM. So I called Bill’s dealership to speak to him. Another guy answered and said Bill was in a meeting; what car was I interested in? I told him, and he paused – “Er, huh, I thought we sold that over the weekend – no it’s still here. I’ll let him know, may he call you back?” Now my first thought was “Oh, they’re going to play the “competing bidder” game and work me, forget it.” But there was enough tone of confusion in the salesman’s voice that he seemed genuinely sincere and not up to something. Bill called me back an hour later. I introduced myself verbally as the guy who’d been emailing him about the Freestyle. Bill also had the mometary pause of surprise: “Someone told me it might be sold – let me verify that so you don’t come all the way here then”. Again, he sounded sincere. But it was not sold, so I told him we would be in later that evening, but probably not before 6. Instead, we got there at 5. Bill was expecting us – and had the car staged in the sold lot, waiting just for our test drive. He didn’t have to do that, but he said “I didn’t want you to come here for nothing so I figured I would hide it for a day”. Nice!! Bill was wonderful. Possibly even nicer than Pat Kain. He waited patiently while we fiddled with the blasted child seats, and let us drive anywhere we wanted. It took almost an hour to get the test drive done between installing the seats and trading divers and inspecting the vehicle. How was the car? MUCH better than expected. It truly was a “baby Limited” in every way – fully optioned, $32K window sticker still in the glovebox - only lacking the heated memory seats, 18” wheels, adjustable second row… and cheesy fake wood trim of a true factory Limited. So yeah, who cares? And I don’t know if these venerable Duratec3.0’s are just that tight in the D3s and take forever to break in, but man, this one was SMOOTH! All the others at the Ford Challenge events at KY Speedway (2004 and 2005), my in-laws’ 2006, and the others I’ve test-driven all seemed tight and noisy. But with just 40K on the clock, this one was silk. By far the best-riding and handling of the 7 Freestyles we’d driven. No joke. It was perfect. And in another happy coincidence, it just happened to be blue. So WHY was it so much cheaper than the others? Carfax had it as a one-owner. NADA, Kelly, and other dealer listings had this car priced several thousands higher. Save for a few very minor paint scratches, this car seemed brand new, and was impeccably detailed. Bill explained: “We rely heavily on volume internet sales, and monitor the market. We always price ourselves well below anyone else in the area. We do quick turnaround and have only have cars for about 3 weeks. We have people like you who come from hundreds of miles away. It’s been tremendously successful for us.” He drew up the bottom line in 5 minutes – NO surprises! – and left us to discuss. Everything had been perfect – he provided documentation (carfax, nada guides, the works) and we liked the car. The price really was a bargain even straight-up – nearly $4000 less than others we had seen with the same options/miles/etc. Still, nobody just buys a car straight-up unless they’re made of money, right? So we made an offer to essentially wipe out the tax, title, and license/reg fees. They accepted it within $200 on the spot. Sold! :happy feet: We had our paperwork stamped, filed, and approved, and had the deal done in half an hour. They gassed up the car, removed the windshield papers and we drove it home. Now THAT was a perfect experience! Bill was the consummate professional – respectful of our time and situation. Knew we were coming, had the car saved and ready. No pressure whatsoever. Patiently waited and helped while we fought with the second of our two child seats. We made an offer we liked and they took it on the spot. They had the car in perfect shape and ready to go by the time the papers were signed. It took longer to drive there and back and test drive. So who was this dealer? Perkins Eastside Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge of Crestwood (Lousville), KY. :yup: ...Which is kind of funny because the LAST Ford we bought (my green ’97 T-bird) also came from a Mopar dealer :shrug: (but they were scum). So concludes this odyssey. Now that the purchase experience was damn near perfect, I can only hope this 2005 Freestyle is as reliable as our warrior Thunderbirds have been (you'll note we've still kept both of them). For Ford’s sake… since their own dealers blew it… it had better be.

PART II WEDNESDAY SEPT 19 Following our attempted deal with Jack Kain Ford, we went over to our local FLM dealer – the one whose service department has always been so wonderful. It's almost closing time so wanting to cut to the chase, I ask the first person on the sales floor who acknowledges me, “Can I speak to the Used Car manager?” Salesman says he's not it, but he'll be glad to help me, and invites me to his office. His name is Bob. I get my wife and we go talk. Now this guy, Bob, is your basic Type-A Good-ol-boy, knows-everyone-and-everything type o' guy. Potentially grating, almost annoying, but nice enough to keep you at ease. And as I look around his tiny office, I see he's been with this dealership for over 25 years – since the day they opened – and has several Best Salesperson awards and all that, as recently as 2004. So he must know his stuff. Cool. And to his credit, he doesn't try to sell us their plain-jane SE, and simply listens: My wife and I are looking for something nicer. The Limiteds had memory seats, which would be great if it had the adjustable pedals too. It HAS to have a sunroof. HAS to have Rear AC. No white, no red. Your competitor down the road listed one for $XX,YYZ. So, what can you find? Bob asks us a few questions. “Does that include TTL? (well, that would be great of course, duh). Does it have to be this weekend? (preferably, yes). You do know a Limited at that price could be tough?" (Yes, but it obviously has been done... and a loaded SEL can still work, we gave you our key features). He then asks: “Can you wait 'till next Tuesday? There's a big Ford lease auction and we can probably find something. It may not be exact, but we'll try...” Sounds reasonable. So we leave, having told him just enough about what we would like, but not enough to tip our hand and find our “dream car” at max price. We can wait if we need to... let's see what they find. MONDAY SEPT 24 - 6PM Bob calls me. “Hey, we found you a BEAUTIFUL car! It's a 2005 Limited, it's got 16K miles, it's got leather & sunroof. It's Blue. You're looking at around $XX,XXX which might be a little higher than you wanted, but is probably worth it. We'll be taking it in on a trade.” Well, his price is very close to Jack Kain's gray one, with half the miles. And unknown to him, Blue is our favorite color. Maybe it will work. But the price, though close , is still toward the high end of comfort. Don't want to tip too much. Maybe it has other features? “Well, the price might be pushing it, but find out everything it has, and let me know? “ “You got it bud. Let me call the guy working the trade-in and I'll get RIGHT BACK TO YOU”. I never hear back. TUESDAY SEPT 25 (Auction day) I hear nothing. WEDNESDAY SEPT 26 Nothing. Bob must not be serious about earning my business. In the meantime, in looking around we have decided that perhaps a laoded SEL offers the best deal... we really only like the memory seats in the limited... and our preferred combo of pedals/rear AC/ sunroof seems surprisingly rare. No sense trying to get blood from a stone. We could save a few grand and go to an SEL. Maybe I should tell Bob about that, it might make things easier. I would, if he'd call me like he promised. THURSDAY SEPT 27 – AM Bob calls me - Finally. “You still interested in that car?” Well, yeah, but you never called me back with the details. “Well my guy is at the auction right now where it is, let me have him get it for me and I'll let you know...” (WTF? I thought it was a trade-in? And wasn't the auction TWO DAYS AGO?) I don't say that. But I DO try to tell him that, hey, we revised our options a bit so maybe you'll have an easier time finding an SEL? But I never get to tell him this, because he's so in love with this phantom blue car that he's telling me all its details again (16K, blue, moonroof, etc) but not the ones I ask for... and his Good-ol'-boy personality has him shouting “You got it bud!” and hanging up as soon as I first remind him I want more details on it.... THURSDAY AFTERNOON: “OK we got it, it we can have it tomorrow for you to come look at.” I tell him we need to go out of town for a bit over the weekend and may not get to see it, unless we stop in that evening before heading out. Did he get the other info? “No, he didn't get that for me. Let me get it for ya" *click* Sigh. That's the THIRD TIME I've had to ask. THURSDAY PM: Nothing. FRIDAY SEPT 28 – AM: Bob calls: “Yeah. You said you'd be out of town anyway? Well the dealer we're getting it from can't have it here today so I guess we'll have it on Monday. Well, it should be here Saturday if you come by just to see it when you get back.” (OK, really - W.T.F.??! NOW it's a DEALER trade?) I am perturbed, because my wife and I changed our arrangements to have time to see the car he told us he would get yesterday. I ask him for the details “Uh, it's got the pedals, and stuff. It's a nice car.” Mmm-hmm, sure it is. But I don't care now because he is clearly not listening to anything I have told him, and fighting to get a word in edgewise is like, oh what's the use. He's worse than a sports agent, acts like a rock star. And THIS was their best salesperson? His credibility from all those awards is losing stock with me. And I am losing patience. In the meantime, there is just the kind of loaded SEL we're thinking of, in Louisville... but we won't have time to go there. So I guess we can look at his car on the lot on Sunday, see if it's really all he keeps promising. SATURDAY SEPT 29: We finish our events early. I decide to call Bob and see if the car is there. “No, I told you it would be Monday”. I let my exasperation sound over the phone. “Well you were going to be out of town, I told you it MIGHT be here but I didn't promise it”. Whatever. You're a liar, don't you dare try to argue with me! At this point, the only thing to salvage this sale is if that car is EVERYTHING we had hoped for, at our price. And since we can't shop or deal on Sunday... they only get that last chance by default. MONDAY OCT 1: Message left at my desk while I was out: “It's Bob. I've got bad news... they guy we were getting the car from has been transferred and needs to keep it....” I don't even listen to the rest. But I do note this message marks the FOURTH new source for this Phantom Phreestyle: 1. Trade-in 2. Auction 3. Dealer swap 4. personal sale In the meantime, Bob Davis – salesman of the year – has wasted over a week of my time, and really soured me on Crossroads Ford Lincoln Mercury of Frankfort, KY. (at least their service dept is competent). I call my wife and tell her the news, and to plan to leave work early so we can go to Louisville.... TO BE CONCLUDED....

Plus, I see it like this: for the Ford Motor Company to sell new vehicles they build, Ford Dealers need to buy them. For the Dealers to buy them, they need to have money. So if their profit on a used sale enables them place an order for another new Fusion or Focus or whatever, then everybody wins. Obviously, if I bought a used car at a Chevy dealer, Ford would not see this indirect benefit. So that's where I was coming from. And honestly, the haggling process doesn't bother me. I do my research. I know what I can afford, what is comparable in this market, and what a fair price should be. I won't begrudge a dealer's right to make a fair profit - we all have bills to pay. He didn't have to sell his car at my price - that is 100% within his rights. I'm fine with that. But I will NOT stand for games and being lied to. And this was not some young punk hotshot newbie salesman either - he was an older gentleman and a veteran. Jack Kain was even NADA president for a time. They really should have known better. And now that dealership will not see one dime from me now, or in the future. And Ford Motor Co. lost the indirect benefits they could have seen, on that account. Part Two will be up when I get time to write it. It's almost funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Ok, this is about our experience trying to throw Ford a bone and buy from a Ford dealer, even if the vehicle was used. I won't be too ranty, but this may be lengthy. In fact I will probably have to add to it in 3 parts (will post the rest if there is interest). So if you don't care to read a lot feel free to move on. EDIT - Part 2 is on page 2 ------------------------------------------ SEPTEMBER 2007 No thanks to some neighborhood hooligans that vandalized both of our T-birds, and a confluence of timing and other financial factors, my wife and I decided to let our bluff be called and go out and buy a used Freestyle. We've driven a number of them before, and while I had my reservations about styling on some trim levels, I liked it overall. Plus they'd come down in price to where we felt comfortable within our budget. Now before anyone spouts that whole “buying used doesn't help Ford (or any manufacturer) as much as buying new”, well, kindly shut up. There are lots of benefits a used car sale can offer: Our T-birds have seen so amazingly bulletproof reliable over our combined 17 years of ownership that we can espouse nothing but good for Ford to our friends and family – that kind of advertising can't be bought. Said friends and family have witnessed the reliability and satisfaction we enjoyed over a number of years, even as they traded on to their second and third vehicles. We still buy Ford parts. We still go back to Ford dealers when necessary. We'd good experiences that enticed us to remain Ford customers. So for all the talk about “loss-leading B-cars are necessary to bring potential new customers into the fold...” I opine that used cars are just as important. Case closed. Nonetheless, we decided that buying from a Ford dealer would be a good idea, if a reasonable profit helps them eke by. We didn't specifically have any reason NOT to, as long as they had a car we liked. Our local dealer is a Ford – Lincoln – Mercury shop that we have dealt with extensively since we moved to our hometown. You guys who complain about 70's woodgrain and console TVs in the waiting room would hate the place, but I couldn't care less: the service is what I am there for and it has always been excellent. I usually perform most of the service and repairs our cars require myself; nonetheless it seemed each one made an annual trip either for a consultation, parts, or when I just didn't have the time or tools. Each time they only did the work expected and required, correctly, the first time. They didn't balk when I said I just wanted parts to do the work myself. They didn't find “other things wrong you need to fix now”. In short, they provided an ideal service experience even without an HDTV and coffee bar. We wanted to buy from them. Given a promotional rate “one weekend only”rate from our bank, we looked. Unfortunately, they only had a stripped-down Freestyle SE in white. No thanks. But we might be back... Now there's another Ford-only dealer 15 miles away. This one recently abandoned their own 70's shed for a brand-new state-of-the-art facility that opened in 2005. We hit Autotrader and saw they had 6 Freestyles to choose from – including a loaded Gray '05 Limited that was only $1300 more than the stripper SE at our local FLM. So we went to inspect the lot after they closed. The Limited we came to see was nowhere to be found, but there were a couple more that looked promising. And while they were all a couple grand more, we figured we could bargain down to the level of the gray one we saw online. So the next day we drive to deal. Salesman is very polite and pleasant – nicest one we've ever met, honestly. Car is nice, not our “dream car” but let's deal from there and see where we get. So we explain to the salesman that, hey, you'd listed a Gray one online and that's what we'd actually come to see, but it's not here. He looks at his stock list and says “yes, I remember that one, sorry but it was sold yesterday”. Alright. Well, the blue one we just drove is basically the same (and it truly was – similar options, miles, trim, everything), so how about we go where the gray one sold for? And without missing a beat he flatly says “No, sorry.” No hemming, no hawing, no consternation, no “let me see the manager.” Just "Sorry, but... no way". Proceeds to tell us all about colors and options and how long they have to be on the lot and he could take maybe $300 off but that's it. So we shake hands and leave. He was polite and I respected his position - he doesn't have to sell to us if he's confident he'll get the money from someone else - but frankly I was shocked they didn't even consider our offer which was well more than fair. We knew they'd listed them cheaper. He just told us the SOLD one cheaper. But I guess they have to pay for the HDTV and kiddie playroom and 60 gallon fishtank and all that other crap in the showroom somehow. No matter. I'm not in a big hurry.... ... But the next morning there's a message from the same salesman, promptly at 9:30 am when they opened: “Hi. I didn't realize it but we actually had another Freestyle, it's similar to what you drove but it's only $XX,YYZ... a great deal... let me know!” Hmmm. “XX,YYZ” was the EXACT price that the gray one had been, and where we tried to deal to. I'm suspicious. I have a printout of the autotrader ad from the other night, so I drive back to the dealer after they close... and sure enough, the Gray one he “Sold” is magically on the lot with the others, staring me right in the face, VIN for VIN. My wife and Father-in-Law are more forgiving: “Maybe he made a mistake? Maybe another salesman used it, or had it overnight, or a deal fell through?”. Bullshit, I say: “He said he knew the one we meant. Said it was sold. His paperwork and stock sheets that he was looking at told him so. And in his message, he passed it off like a “new” one he didn't know about. Otherwise he could have just said it was loaned or fell through or whatever. And he called us just as soon as he reported in for work... it didn't have time to 'just show up'. " Oh, and did I mention this particular salesman was the dealer owner's son? Yeah, if anyone should have known better about what was there, it would have been him. So politeness be damned, fancy building be damned: I'm not going for bait and switch. I don't appreciate being lied to. There's no excuse for that kind of BS in this day and age, I don't care HOW cheap they sold a Limited for. So Mr. Pat Kain just got Jack Kain Ford of Versailles/Lexington, KY crossed off my list for good. Deadline for the credit union special having passed, let's go back to our local FLM dealer.... CONTINUED on Topic Page 2... (?)

Actually, I may be in the minority but I would MUCH rather then recycle the name "Escort" rather than "Fiesta". Not so much because the name "Escort" is all that positive (we could argue that elsewhere), but, when I see "Fiesta" on a car, I remember all those other classic "spanish-fad" names from the time like Nova (what it was at the time) El Camino Ranchero Cordoba Volare Mirada and yes... even my beloved Granada. All of those names hark back to dark dark days for this country's domestic auto industry. Why anyone would want to resurrect those memories is beyond me. The Feista was not that much better than the Escort, but at least Escort doesn't sound like a fad replete with leisure suits and hai karate. And anyone in the target who could remember and care about any bad press with "Escort" is not so far removed from those other names, either.

That's likely because the "canon" of base knowledge in any / all of those fields, at that time, was much narrower than what it is today. If you were to specialize in any one of those fields today (architecture for example), there is a VAST amount of knowledge derived from past experience that hadn't even been considered even just a hundred years ago. It's sort of like applied reverse engineering: the guys designing the 2008 Taurus may be only fully well qualified to do just that. But they could probably do everything necessary to build a Model T as well. I doubt the guys who did the Model T would have the first clue of what to do with a 2008 Taurus, even though they may have been carpenters / farmers / bakers / whatever on the side. But I understand where you're coming from. "Mastery" of a field is a dark art. In some ways I respect (and would rather be) the "Jack of All Trades, Master of None" as opposed to the guy who spent 16 years getting a Ph.D that only qualifies him for one field through the rest of his life. It takes all kinds.

How about they up the bumper-to-bumper from 36K to 40K? In reality that shouldn't add too much expense.... but it does cross the psychological threshold from "3" to "4". 100K Powertrains are nothing new and really are pretty much expected, whether they are warrantied or not. But a 40K "fiddly bits" warranty would be different, is enough of a baby step increment from 36 to not cost too terribly much, yet might stand out in a customer's head (in the same manner that a price ending in "9" does) Just an idea.

I have seen a handful of Taurus and X models at a couple dealers here in central KY - and I saw my first purchased one last week. They are starting to trickle out. In addition, while scoping used Freestyles at another dealer, I saw another X that had been sold. But there were only 2 Tauruses on the entire lot. What I can't figure out is that the interior dash didn't look much changed, which is fine, but yet it looked... better... somehow. Can't put my finger on it. I think Ford will have to be happy if they don't slide in sales. An increase would be sweet gravy. If it continues to slide then they need to revisit their thinking on design - nobody seems to complain about the contents, just the styling. The price shock will be something to overcome too. Same dealer that was selling one of those two 2008 models for $30K+ had a 2007 for $15K. THAT doesn't inspire confidence. WE may know it's a different car... but the appearance of losing over half value in one year is NOT good for the average joe.

I'm mildly in the Clarkson fan camp, if only because he's entertaining and in your face. The man is genuinely funny, and even self-effacing at times. And he makes no bones about being biased - it's pretty well on the table. So the opinions can be taken at face value for what they're worth: nothing more than the opinion of a Queen's Snob. OTOH, the reviews of the Mustang were overall very positive. "Sounds like God... Shouting" is the best line ever spoken about any car, ever. The Ford GT is another positive one. The Focus ST got raves of course but that's a euro Ford. regarding non-Fords, he gushed over the 300C (until he drove it, LOL). But if you think he trashes American cars badly, you haven't seen them test Asian ones. The lightning segment was biased yet appropriate, since a drag-truck is wholly stupid. And at the end of the day, what does a "built by Bob and Ken" badge really do for the vehicle? I agree the RHD converter should have been more culpable, but Ford should have some say over who does that anyway. What's the point of a truck? Given the choice between a no-nonsense, "get it done" truck, and a poorly-adapted, silly-fast-to-the-edge-of-pointless-in-this-market one, which should win?

LOL I hear ya on that one. Actually, the "good" dealer is one who handles the state contract for police cruisers. So if you want a CVPI, or even a "non-retail" CV, they're the ones to go to. I know this because for some morbid reason, I have thought about it... But only because I've always wanted a "Bluesmobile" and, well... actually buying a 1974 Dodge Monaco just isn't a good idea. As if you could even find one. :lol:

Hmm, now that's an idea. The CU special is a half-point off on interest, this weekend, from all local dealers. We're good on financing from them, but I doubt an auction would come up in time. We hadn't really intended to shop seriously until a confluence of factors (the sale came up, and then why spend money fixing both current cars after the break-ins, when we can use that towards the new one we've been needing)? We're going to talk to them tomorrow and see if we can get a extension on that teaser or something. But it's one of those "local bank helps local dealers" type deals so I'm not holding my breath. Ironically, the Fed just cut rates again so maybe that would come to our favor... Surprised that DeanH hasn't chimed in. Where are you? You rip on customers constantly, yet here I'm that rare honorable sap that wants to reward a great dealer but is kind of stuck...

Well, we've decided that now might be the time to finally, FINALLY break down and amend the personal fleet list. Our credit union has a financing special this weekend and we qualify for the lowest rate. And some of the vehicles we've been considering have come down in price to our comfort zone. Now I know that "buying used" doesn't help Ford as much as buying new. But, it's the smartest thing for us to do. My question is... we are seriously considering a few used Freestyles in the area. The only trouble is, the one from the Ford dealer who deserves our business is white... and I absolutely HATE white cars. As if the Freestyle wasn't "boring" enough, nothing says "I give up on life" like a white vanilla special. And this one is just a stripper SE model. Curses! There is another freestyle at another dealer 10 miles away. It's a fully loaded limited, smoke gray, for $1300 more. We'd have a winner, but I don't like the dealer. Is there ANY incentive for a dealer to swap used vehicles with another? The one we want to buy from has truly been wonderful and deserves our business... but I don't want to "settle" for their car. Or would we just be wasting money and be better off just buying straight up from the other guys? Finally I know the Freestyle has been a solid vehicle. Are there any quirks we should look for/ I understand the brakes and tires suck. But I'm more interested in how higher-mileage specimens have held up mechanically. Of course, we could well end up in something else entirely, but that's what we're looking at. I would be nice to get something in time for our next big road trip in a few weeks. And both our T-Birds were broken into a week ago so hopefully we waited long enough...

What the hell...? I thought clay models were supposed to stay in the studio? That's some hilarious camo: a car only Gumby could love! If only highways were made of NERF....

A more fitting tribute would have been the pic of the firemen raising the flag in the rubble. Remembering the event and those who fell while honoring those who protect and sacrifice in the name of our ideals. The sentiment may have been honorable, but I too find the chosen picture to be in poor taste. Why should just that man be remembered? Some images can't be "unseen" and so they don't need to be reposted. As with the endless media saturation elsewhere... Enough is enough. As for being off-topic.... I agree, BUT that genie was let out of the bottle with all the sports and other OT threads posted (and sanctioned by moderators, no less) recently.

Maybe metaphorically... I always thought "horse collar" was a stretch. But in virtually every article I've ever read about the Edsel (not all that have been written but more more more than a few), that's what they called it: "The Horse-collar Grille". He should have put the Nissan Armada up there. That had to be the funniest bash of a car I ever read. Short of TTAC and the Flying.... horse collar :P

Read this piece of electronic asswipe yesterday. Dan Neil is obviously falling in love with himself. Talk about double-speak! He includes cars like the Explorer, Excursion, Hummer, and even the model T on the premise of their socio-environmental impact... ... then bashes the EV1 out of context after saying it was the best that could have been done at the time?! What an ass. He soundly rips the fruits of overwrought government control, like the Chevette, Pinto, Gremlin, Iron Duke and V8-6-4... while non-so-subtly suggesting a return to them. I mean, bash stupid American society for falling in love with silly overblown SUVs - not Ford and Chevy for building them. By his logic, the real culprits should have been the Bronco, K-Blazer, Ramcharger and Scout the preceeded them 20 years prior. Oh, but that's not fashionable, and those names were likely be beyond the grasp of the typical west-coast eco-weenie. Plus to give credit where due: I believe TTAC was the first publication to compare a car's grille to a vagina. I do enjoy they way he rips British cars, though.

You know I honestly really, really want to agree with the positive sentiments here. The upgraded interior, introduction of SYNC, and fairly comprehensive sheetmetal changes are indicative of effort. And I would be inclined to agree with RJ's sentiments of "A lot of thought went into it".... if it didn't have that godawful front end! I like the car from the side, and the back, and even the front from the grille upward. Even the fender vent seems to have a place in the design. But who fell asleep at the CAD console from the grille down? That certainly doesn't look very well-thought! Dead horse, I know. Polarizing design is better than bland, I agree. But man oh man.... I want this car to work well for them but every time I see one I throw up a little. I just hope I'm in the minority... but most of the people I've shown it too are less than accepting of the design. The packaging and content seems to be right. But the design is just so make-or-break. And if I'm not in the minority and it bombs... I hope Ford doesn't get another case of "catfish-taurusitis" and go all design-comatose again. It would be damning for them to have it shunned like a Pacer or Aztek, and have to resort to shift cuts or incentives just to stay solvent again. So I welcome the agression, I just wish it was more refined. But I hope that I'm wrong.