1993Stang

Winning the war with the media is the best option for Bob King to put into the contract...If you are listening Bob King. A graduate of one of the schools I attended is a spokesperson for the Big 3. Her quote when asked about how much the Chrysler salaried bonuses would be, the answer given and I quote "the details regarding salaried performance awards are considered confidential employment records." But in the same article all the amounts of the hourly were released. I have talked a lot about hourly comp. myself but nothing that hasn't already been released by the media, but most hourly employees should demand that exact confidential clause in their contract as well. This could only avoid future hang-ups that outsiders have with the UAW workforce. You rarely here of the complaints of the 18% that is supposed to be given above the hourly line-workers rate by the media. Their justification is education. Bob, a lot of hourly are educated!! Or that a regular lower level manager on the line does indeed get paid (for all of you who want to know) 85K. Or the absolute ridiculous amount of moving allowances that some salaried employees brag about when they have to go to a different plant along with work placement services for their spouses. Our union contracts are located in books still not on a computer that needs to have a log in just to look at. How about getting into this century, putting contracts on a secured data base for hourly employees like the salaried have, and avoiding media's questions by using "the details regarding the "Hourly" performance awards are considered Confidential Employment Records!! "

I'm sorry Pioneer, I don't think my original post was clear because I believe the subject of returning give-backs was brought up. I was curious to see that the bonus given out to most salaried employees could be the same amount the company has saved from the almighty complaint by salary referring to hourly COLA. Again, taking from one group hourly (to pay to management). Mr. King himself has said that the hourly have given upwards of $30K in benefits, time off, holiday, OT, COLA etc. A different profit sharing formula could either (1) be better but (2) more likely than not benefit the company not wages. Either way I was merely pointed out if given the option of the 2, I think COLA might be a better choice. A company may profit but still owe a lot of debt. Ford still owes I believe 16 billion. My guess is that the contract will promise the two tier back to one tier which is good for the workers and definitely good for the unions (higher dues amount) at the same time doing absolutely nothing for the most seniority employees. Chrysler payout to management for profit 4% to 16% just announced, avg salary worker will get $10,000 while the top 1% will receive 50% of their base salary. Btw, there is only 26K salary workers while the hourly get paid an average bonus of $750.00. Isn't that nice to file for bankruptcy and walk away with such a big bonus!! I want to know why people always perceive the hourly as overpaid??? Seriously? While the outsiders continue to say "Well at least you have a job."

I heard there was a meeting (rah rah event) at the DTP plant today and word was that the company would like to not reinstate cola and just use a profit sharing calculation of some sort (don't know what) to pay hourly employees. Why on earth would the hourly agree to totally not getting back COLA ??? Sounds like the bean counters realize that they can always cry poor to the annual profit but if COLA returns, everyone would realize if the company is not paying the right amount. Don't vote COLA returning down!! Just do the math on $3.00 (I know it has never been that high) $3 x (40) hours = 120 x 52 = $6240 just on straight time. Yes profit for this year is $5,000 but what if they hit the skids again. Little profit and no bonus but COLA still receiving decent money based on COLA. I would love to here thoughts on this one. I think this is where the comment of losing COLA can be anywhere from $2,000 - $7,000 plays a factor adding for OT in those figures of coarse. Now take a salaried person middle manager for sure who is making 85K and receiving a 10% bonus this year from profit...the bonus would be around $8,500.00. Return the COLA !! Let me know your thoughts??

No, but if he or she ever heard it pronounced by most of the population that lives in Dearborn, I can see that it could sound like Deirborn, Grew up there, believe it or not, most people who don't know Dearborn usually spell it Deerborn (so can we give this person a break).

If the temps are paying dues and it is in the bylaws that they can vote o.k. but don't you dare deny the fact as they are voting for whatever B.S. you are trying to get voted in or yourself voted in, your not promising the temps the moon and the stars to get that almighty vote that you need. We have all watched that play card. Oh, yeah, you'll be full-time eventually....maybe six years from now. I see it as you denying a temp the right to a full=time wage for a full days work. A little promise here, a little promise there, yeah we are your friend, says the union guy, who will never deny you the right to vote for something he/she needs first. As the temps get approached, tell them to tell the union reps, sure you'll vote for this and that as soon as you achieve full time work permanent status first : ) Yeah tell them to throw in the same wage as your full-time partner that does the same work you do across the line. Anything short of that "No"

Very interesting points by Waldo, Grim, and Liquid....and to the other guy, no one is bickering we are just comparing numbers of the loss of employees with the profit of different years and how the formula works. And to Cyber, thanks for pointing out a lot of the GSR situation. Everyone should have a piece of the profit, I don't think anyone believes differently. Although, I would love the salary stock match option : )

Good post Waldo, I love when people point out exactly what has been lost...another loss since 2006 47,600 hourly have taken some kind of buyout whether retired or off the books completely. Leaving the hourly with only 40K plus people.In March of 2008 a bonus of $1000.00 was given out to the remaining for reaching the companies goals of restructuring. So if the elimination of thousands of jobs during a crappy year yielded a bonus of $1000.00, I guess the question remains. Back in the day someone posted a profit of 7.2 billion (1999) and gave 88,000 people a avg profit of $8,000.00 - $10,000 each, what is the math about giving only 5K to a remaining 40,600 people with a profit over 6 billion in 2011??

Or keep the MPS because they are receiving a good salary thus making them work harder for the money and eliminate salary. Come on,' don't the leaders do most everything now anyway?? Get an extra leader to eliminate supervision. That is how I thought it was supposed to be when leaders were elected in the first place. It's like paying two people for one job, a leader, and a supervisor to babysit the leader.

I am so with you on this one. I was wondering this loooong before today's profit announcement. Why do you need 20k to 40K. Back in the day you had 1 supervisor (in the plant anyway) supervising over at least 10 work stations with 2 people on each side. Most of the time you had only 1 team leader and 1 repair if you were lucky. Or has that changed where there is a whole lot less plant supervision and now you have a lot more salaried designers and others. I know there are fewer HR salaried jobs because most are now in India. So the question is who are the 20K and how many are truly needed. Like most of us said before, hourly can elect a couple of hourly leaders and pretty much run the show without supervision.

Dude, you are so mistaken about who I am. I feel sorry for the person that is working there that you think I am. I left what was still known as the DAP when the new DTP first opened and have not returned since that day. I transferred as an hourly and remained an hourly. My memory skills are fine. I still recall you being a total jack##S!! I probably have never met you in person because I'm sure you are not an "original DAP person", many of them are probably long gone by now. I never point out the lack of education to others unless they are having trouble with reading the posts. If you re-read my posts, I firmly, without any hesitation, support the hard working union members period!! You seem to totally miss the point of the conversation that I was pointing out, to who was probably a salaried person, complaining about his/her out of pocket health care costs. In which I replied, those cost are more than made up with the 401K match that the company provides its salaried employees. It was also, in a round about way, stated that hourly would be in a much better position if their investment into a 401K was matched by the company they worked for. Who does not agree with that?? Yes, we have butted heads before because you need to read S L O W E R. Maybe I should form it in a way of a Christmas List so you will understand.....Dear Santa Allen, all the members want for Christmas is OT over 8 hours restored Xmas bonus would be nice even if its a little late COLA 2%,3%,2% performance reinstated Sick day pay (in our dreams) but still wish and any other thing you can think of to add to Santa's list, I won't get greedy. Oh and BTW, GEN kept people employed and off unemployment rolls also.

I don't understand your comment at all unless you are a salaried suck##s like the rest of them. WTH do you mean get over yourself? I was commenting on some of the losses of the hourly perks compared to what the salaried side still have. RE-READ !! You need an education my friend.

Yes, one of the bonuses to being salaried is that you are now getting your performance reviews with salaried increases to offset that so called 4k out of pocket expense along with the fact that the company is still matching your 401K money and if you were smart and bought while low, you should all have a healthy return on your investment by now. Does that happen for the hourly, NOT! Most big companies want their employees to invest in the company. Again, salaried looking after their own and not anyone else who might appreciate the company that they are working for. I'll trade my profit sharing check if the company will match my stock dollar for dollar. How many sick days did you get with pay this year? Salaried can only get sick, not hourly. No sick day pay on this side, but threats of write-ups all the time. There are a lot of benefits to being salaried, I've been both!

Great post, it amazes me that there are auto workers that are still die hard Republicans out there backing this "half the wage" agenda. I say if they believe in the Republican way, go to labor relations and ask personally to have their wages cut in half. Now the tax cuts also for those who are rich will go into effect. What will this create, tax cuts for the wealthy so those businesses have extra money to invest overseas. The tax cuts for the wealthy have worked so well for the past ten years, can't you see all the jobs that are being created here, NOT. Those tax cuts have allowed companies to move more product overseas and employ people in China. If the tax cuts are extended, it sure would be nice to have a clause in there that says, "alright we agree to the continued tax cuts, in order to extend, all new employees hired will be hired in the states, period." Again, if the so called theory that tax cuts to the wealthy have helped to create jobs, where are these jobs now, seriously? All those jobs are overseas. When Clinton was in office we had high taxes among our richest and there was a balanced budget. Profits for companies galore. The Big three included.

Are you kidding? Every new member that is hired from now on is being hired into the new 2nd tier period. As people retire, all new U.A.W. members who have left will be replaced by the new 2nd tier wage thus reducing the pay of most people on the hourly rolls. Yes, the significant amount of the group still gets paid full wages but a vast majority of people who took the buyout left behind full wages. There are roughly only 36,000 people working hourly aside from the new people that might of been hired recently in the last year. Those who didn't leave with a buyout might of been closer to retirement than those who left with lets say 15 years of less. I would guess the company knows exactly how many will be leaving within the next five years making full wages and all of those people will then be replaced by lower wages. All anyone has to do to figure out how many people will be receiving this lower pay is to figure out the seniority dates of most of your co-workers and when they are planning to leave. Say 10,000 people with only 5 or more years to go retire on time, that is a lot of people exiting with full time wages thus getting the number closer to half the members making half the wages. Wouldn't you agree? I am not in anyway saying that people leave at 30 years because some stay a lot longer, but lets say those who are approaching that golden number are offered a significant buyout , they would probably leave.

My apologies the web site is http://www.mercyhealthpartners.com/ I left out the health word, sorry. Yes, the basis of the story was several organizations but would you believe him/her on everything else when he was clearly wrong on posting this one? Come on, you have to be smarter than that. I wouldn't believe any one way leaning organization if all their tongues were notarized. Dig for the facts before the spin on either side, that is all I'm saying.

Why open it if it is from politico? Why would you get any information from a source that leans one way or another? I don't have to believe all CEO's but I understand how the medical field is in jeopardy and not by what you refer to as Obamacare, quite the opposite. How many times does your dentist call to try and get you into that all important chair now? Before no phone call. Why, because more people used to be insured years ago before they lost their jobs. Just like the medical profession. People will put off doctors appointments, dentist, blood tests, etc. because they used to have great health care coverage and now have none. That is why many hospitals want the HealthCare Reform bill. About Mercy, why would a CEO come to the defense of his hospital and blame spin on special interest groups just for the hell of it?? Most people, I assure you, are not the ones primarily voting democrat (it's a private catholic hospital). Think about the issues. So yes, I tend to believe the CEO that states his hospital has been in the red for years and probably lines up well with people losing their benefits long before the Obama Administration. Stop the continued spin when the facts come out and admit YOU WERE WRONG! Dig for facts on local company web sites. Look into the companies financials. What the hell does the CEO of Ford Motor have to do with Ken Cook's statement? Again, people with health care insurance keep the medical offices and hospitals open.

The facts are at www.mercypartners.com by Ken Cook, CEO. MILKEM12 is totally wrong about the hospital case, I debunked his facts as total and utter BS. Look for yourself under the website under topic A message to our Community.

I wanted to clear up again the banter of how inaccurate people perceive things to be when they don't have an ounce of fact to back up their statements. Again, another right winger just shooting his mouth off before finding out the TRUE FACTS!! He posted his nonsense that Mercy Hospital Partners were going out of business due to what he referred to as "ObamaCare" I love calling these wack jobs out, it is so much fun. If anyone would like to check the facts that I put out to debunk Milkem12 theory on how the Affordable Health Care is ruining Mercy, be my guest. This is a quote taken directly from their website I quote the CEO of Mercy Hospital Partners, Ken Cook "It was announced last week that their intention was to explore the sale of Mercy Hospital in Scranton, PA (our facilities)...the rationale for our initiative has been mischaracterized by certain politicized media outlets and SEVERELY distorted by special interest groups. It continues, discussions about mergers, acquisitions and strategic partnerships have been going on for years long before the AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE ACT (just in case you forgot what it is called)." It continues to say that it has been a challenging time for Mercy Health Partners, our staff, our community. We do however, continue to be encouraged by potential of HEALTH CARE REFORM to improve coverage and access to many more patients without access in our country. "

First, obviously you and the Milkmen have not used the educational sources that the U.A.W. and the company gave so you can learn that everything media special interests spew is not always the truth and then inaccurately posted for all of us to be board with. Sometimes I am so frustrated when people post utter and total bullshit about something they no absolutely nothing about. www.mercypartners.com And I quote Ken Cook President and CEO of Mercy of Scranton, PA " It was announced last week that it is the intention to explore the sale of our facilities (Mercy). READ CAREFULLY! "The rationale for our initiative has been mischaracterized by certain POLITICIZED MEDIA OUTLETS (no surprise there) and SEVERELY distorted by SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS," (right from the CEO"S mouth" and web page. Furthermore, Discussions about mergers, acquisitions and strategic partnerships have been going on for years long before the Affordable Healthcare Act." He continues to say the "It was a challenging time for Mercy Hospital Partners, our staff and community, we do continue to be encouraged by the potential of READ CAREFULLY Health Care Reform to improve coverage and access to everyone in our country" How sad to use this web site for inaccurate political banter and to smear the good name of a hospital that has taken care of patients for nearly 100 years.

I'm thinking this guy was either (1) Temporary and could not get into full-time ever (2) Worked along side the U.A.W. from a vendor company (3) Took his U.A.W. supported buyout and forgot where the hell he came from because they would never offer that somewhere else. (4) Is working for a family member now and thinks this will pan out well. (5) Ran the system until the system caught up with him so he quit before being backed into a corner he couldn't weasel himself out of.

Dude, slow down. Surplus (= ) extra money for the new guy so no new taxes would have to be created. New guy comes in (Bush) and surplus is spent big time and a negative balance is then passed along to the new guy (Obama), not just a small negative balance but a HUGH negative balance with a housing market in shambles, unemployment on the rise, and an unfinished war that should of never started in the first place. How hard is it for you to understand that? (A) Somehow that negative revenue has to be returned to balance the books (B) The new guy surely will not be able to balance the budget unless some kind of tax is put in © Yes, people have to go back to work to pay taxes, but in all fairness, jobs have been leaving overseas and it just did not start 2 years ago, wake up! Walmart has been in operation long before the Obama administration making the lead-filled junk from China when toys used to be manufactured in the States. (D) Again, your man put the expiration date on the elimination of the business tax not Obama. (E) I absolutely totally 100% agree with you that we need to spend less so where were you when Bush was not following that simple plan? (F) Finally, you really believe the problem can be fixed in 2 short years, no way, no how, can't do it, will not happen. (G) Finding solutions takes time. (H) one more, before I go, before Bush was in office and before we had the business tax savings, we did have a surplus right? Am I wrong? Those businesses were not getting all the gravy tax breaks before (go back to 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, etc. (damn, all those years we were all getting Big profit sharing checks as well)!! Again, it will be an elimination of tax breaks not a raise in them.

You are absolutely right, NAFTA sucks big time but in all fairness to say that it was Clinton's idea would be a disservice. That was definitely a Republican Congress pushing for Clinton to sign it and by all counts he should of said no. What makes him any different than what we have running in Michigan now with a gov. preaching that he is going to add jobs when half the Discera Inc, that he owns is in China. Detroit News did a story about this very thing yesterday. Again, a Republican wanna be governor who has a track record for sending jobs overseas while his company makes Big profits! Good for his company, good for his wallet, bad for Michigan period. Listen everyone knows the jobs problem in this country but most economist will say that if we continue to make lower pay and produce a product that we can not afford ourselves, it will be the end of the economic recovery. This is a fact, Republicans feel that auto industry people have it too good, rich with benefits, pensions, and pay compared to most people. Who were they comparing us to...Mexico, China, India?? Could you make it on $14.00/hour, feeding a family of 4 and still live a lifestyle that is decent. Good school districts, nice house, a product (car) that you produce?? When Obama took over Manufacturing jobs had already been leaving this country. To blame it on him, that would be just stupid. He wasn't in office when floods of people from the autos lined up to take buyouts starting in 2006/2007. He wasn't in office when places like Thailand, Mexico, and other foreign countries put in state of the art manufacturing overseas. Ford Motor company was doing poorly way before Obama took office. We had a meeting that representatives pretty much told us that the company would run out of money before Mullaly took over, way before Obama came into office/hence the buyout plan. While many thought the buyout plan was great, some people like myself, knew this was a great way to bring people eventually in at half the pay to eventually replace all that were leaving (people are still needed to build cars). Finally, when Clinton left office, he had a surplus, period. You cannot deny it, spin it, and you definitely shouldn't bash it. When taking over the White House everyone would love to be in the positive column of their checkbook instead of the negative. So why is it when Bush left we were no longer in the positive but in the negative and everyone thinks it is absolutely o.k.?? Why? Wouldn't we all love to blow thru someone's else extra money and not be responsible for it later. It would upset me, I guess you don't feel the same way?? The checkbook should of been balanced correctly, but to blame the next guy because he can't turn it around, is just plain crazy. How would anyone balance this checkbook now without cuts, taxes, and things that we don't want to do but have to? Your right, spending might not be the answer but I would love to hear your solution to balancing the checkbook. All politicians should be held accountable and have the books balanced when leaving office no matter what it cost, period. In the long run, it is only going to get uglier not easier.

It is the end to the tax breaks of those who make over $200,000 individually or family $250,000. Why is anyone pointing fingers? Whoever put the tax breaks on in the first place should of known that the expiration date was going to come sooner or later and I believe that was your Republican man BUSH. Why else would he put an expiration on them if he thought the tax cuts could last until the end of time?? That was his campaign strategy of having the rich pay less taxes, now it has expired. It isn't a hike on your pay so why are your worried? Tax breaks should be given to the middle class, they are the ones who drives the economy. What mistake? The administration is not renewing, simple as that. You can spin it all you want. Now again, as the congressional hearings on TARP were ongoing and Bush originally put forward this plan, republican by republican stood up there and voted "Hell No" to bailing out any of the autos. You can read a list of those who said "No" (google it) Why on earth would you encourage someone to vote for Republicans when clearly they do not have your best interest at heart at all. Did you watch the hearings 18 months ago? Republicans feel you should be making less wages my friend, not more. They want you competitive to what your counterpart is being paid at contract facilities ($14-$18/hr). This is what you should be worried about. Republicans also want Right to Work states (no contract neg. there). Yes, you might think this is a great idea because you come to work but I would like to phrase it up for you, " You have a Right to come to Work and They have a right to pay you what they want, period. Is your college resume ready?

My Father was out there walking with you and those days were very difficult. 4 kids and an uncertain future, I was young but I could remember how hard it was.

This behavior is a bad reflection on the hard men and women who go to work everyday to provide for their families who do not even leave the building or step outside until the end of the shift. Unfortunately, although many thought the reporter did a good job reporting the story, this type of thing will go viral and then the hard workers will be grouped together with the rotten few. It is upsetting to say the least. I do however want to point out that there are quite a few managers that do the exact same thing regardless of what the news has portrayed of the hourly workforce. The only difference is that it is at a so called "luncheon" instead of a nearby park. Some take their corporate meetings to the nearby boob bars. You won't see the news guy there!! It is so upsetting that it is embarrassing to watch it unfold. They should of realized that the company is just looking for a reason to get rid of more full time/full pay seniority workers. I'm not sure what the loopholes are in the contract when it comes to this behavior but I am certain that the fact that they do not get paid for their lunch and that they can do anything they want while on their break will be the argument that just might save their employment! Time will tell but I know a lot of hourly workers are pissed that they are now thrown in this unfortunate light of the STUPID few!