StangBang

It's probably a trendy shade of gray with a green hue to it.

Just give me the easiest one to make. A 1977-79 Thunderbird Ranchero. Just swap the hood and header panel from a 1977-79 Thunderbird onto the same year Ranchero.

I covered that several postings back. Anyway the extra weight of my 1989 Thunderbird was not even perceptible. I was happy paying the extra cost and rolling the extra weight.

My fornicating brain fart and correction. And SN95 is the 1994 Mustang on the Fox-4 platform. So what are you talking about? See that's what happens when you project arrogance instead of offering a friendly correction. __

Back then FoNA, FoE and FoA were such seperate entities serving specific markets that a "One World" collaboration would never have happened. Imagine if the American Ford Fairmont, European Ford Granada and Australian Ford Falcon would have all been the same cars produced worldwide. Fast forward to 2000 Focus and finally a car that is virtually the same no matter where it's sold in the world.

I personally think MN12 was justified, especially after owning 84,85 and 89 Thunderbirds. The 89 was a much better car. The MN12 instantly made the Fox Tbird look dated. The MN12 got the cowl, hood and roof down low for a much sleeker look, while the wheelbase was longer for better ride, handling and rear seat room. The IRS was definitely worth every penny. My only criticism was the Tbird lost a lot of shapely character that was uniquely Thunderbird. To me it was more like a slab sided BMW 6-series clone with Thunderbird styled front and rear end fascias. The platform did yeild a really nice Lincoln Mark VIII with a more voluptuous bodystyle that at the time I wish had been used alternately styled into a Thunderbird companion. Ford was really short sighted though only developing the platform to use V6 engines. They really thought supercharged and turbocharged engines were going to take over and displace V8s. They had to shoehorn the 5.0 liter into the MN12 with a lower profile intake manifold when they reintroduced the V8 a couple of years later. After 1995 the SC went away and two years later so did the Thunderbird with all the sales going to the more popular Mustang GT. Ford really was looking to do away with the Fox platform by the end of the 1980s but the two hold outs were the Mustang and Mark VII. The Mustang was already supposed to have been replaced by what became the Probe. The entire rethink ultimately re-engineered the Fox platform into SN95 for exclusive use by the Mustang instead of shortening MN12 and using its IRS. I find it obsurd that Ford waited four years after MN12 was introduced to come up with a Mark VII replacement.

Ford debated whether they should make the Thunderbird on the FWD Taurus platform or develop an all new platform. The new RWD platform won because they really wanted the Thunderbird to be a flagship vehicle showcasing the best performance and handling and they knew it could not be that on a FWD platform nor the Fox platform which was dated and limiting.

The historical books that the info is from all reference that it was overweight for it's day. The MN12 was designed in the mid-1980s compared to later modern vehicles which all gradually got heavier over the following 10-20 years due to increased standard equipment, safety systems and structure for better crash resistance. Stay within the context of the actual time they were designed, not what came so many years later.

Yes that is correct. The Mustang ended up going with a variation of the Ford Focus front suspension to save costs. And sadly the IRS was not included.

I remember all the photos of the shortened Thunderbird which had a big chunk removed behind the doors and ahead of the rear wheels. That development was cancelled because it would have made the Mustang too costly and heavy. The Thunderbird itself was already severely chastized by management for being overweight and way over budget to the point people lost their jobs.

The Fairmont came for 1978, the Mustang came for 1979 and the Thunderbird for 1980. The Thunderbird certainly was not an afterthought as the debut time was only two years later. As a matter of fact the Fairmont Futura coupe was the original Fox-based Thunderbird design but it was instead pulled ahead and marketed as a junior companion to the intermediate Thunderbird which set sales records being downsized to the Torino platform at a much lower price. The eventual 1980 Fox Thunderbird got an alternate skin instead which was awkwardly proportioned and sold poorly prompting an emergency redesign for 1983 to boost sales of a once record selling nameplate. The 1980 Thunderbird was praised in the press for being so much improved in handling. The Continental Mark VII was indeed an afterthought after the Panther based Mark VI sold so poorly, mostly because the Continental Town Car was the same car at a lower price minus the Mark series hidden headlamps, trunklid hump and oval opera windows. The prototype design of the Continental Mark VII is what saved the Thunderbird as the proposal was restyled into a Tbird and allowed to debut ahead of the Mark VII a year ahead of time. The Mark VII was built on a longer wheelbase than the Thunderbird/Cougar XR7. The Granada and Monarch was replaced for 1981 with new Granada and Cougar sedans with alternately styled front and rear clips on the Fairmont/Zephyr body, so they were likely an afterthought, possibly even being originally a mid-cycle update intended for the Fairmont. Nevertheless, they sold poorly until they were restyled and rebadged to LTD and Marquis for 1983.

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I stay connected with folks with their old Fairmonts, Zephyrs, Granadas, Cougars, LTDs and Marquises and they love the fact that you can improve them so much with Mustang mods that bolt right in place. I'm personally more enthusiastic about the resto-mods of these cars. The Fox body diversity including the sedans and wagons is more interesting to me.

I was not writing an opinion piece. I was stating historical facts. You need to read the history book on the Mustang by Gary Witzenburg which was written from sources being actual Ford designers and engineers who were working on the project at the time. It covers in depth how Ford developed the Fox platform to replace the Maverick, Mustang and Pinto. The Fox platform was indeed developed with the needs of the Mustang foremost in mind because it was going to be an influential product of which its important attributes could not be designed in later as an afterthought. They decided that anything they did to benefit the Mustang it would be quite beneficial to the other vehicles sharing the platform. The sequence in which the vehicles debuted is not relavent as they were all developed at the same time. The archaic Maverick needed replacing first because it was the oldest design based on the Falcon platform. It's a good thing it did because it came just in time for GMs debut of its downsized A-body cars. It was only a year later the Mustang debuted on the Fox platform so it wasn't like Ford decided to add the Mustang after the Fairmont was locked in. It was developed as a family of short and long wheelbased vehicles. The Pinto was dropped from the program when it was decided that it would be replaced with the FWD Erika project that resulted in the Escort. The Fox Mustang pretty much served duty replacing the Pinto in configuration being sold at a low enough base price with 4-cyl drivetrain that was carried over from the Pinto and Mustang II. Now, about developing the platform for mass market appeal? Yes of course and the Mustang was still a mass market vehicle in those days selling decent numbers. The goal of the Fox platform was to improve many aspects of a vehicle platform to include modern suspension designs with MacPherson struts, multi-link coil spring rear suspension, improved handling and rack and pinion steering. The platform was also developed to be lightweight and fuel efficient. These were all things new to domestic Fords and for many domestic vehicles in general. Back then it was never the goal to make the Mustang perform like a supercar closer to how they are designed today. The targets were not as high in those days so it was not unrealistic to optimize the Fox platform for certain Mustang goals according to standards that applied for that era. The late 1970s was still a time when good handling cars were in an infancy continually being improved over the following decades. The fact that Ford had to redesign the Fox platform so extensively for the 1994 Mustang and then make more geometry changes for the 1999 model demonstrates how much they needed to improve the Fox platform to reach the ever changing goals for being a better handling and performing Mustang. What I never said is that Ford developed the Fox platform exclusively for the Mustang, which is what you made it sound like I said.

Damned double post!

The Fox platform was developed to optimize it for the Mustang. It was never an afterthought to put the Mustang on a Fox platform. All the first Fox vehicles were developed congruently. They knew if they optimized the platform for the Mustang it would greatly benefit the other Fox platform vehicles. So no one can say the 1979 Mustang was developed from a Fairmont like previous generation Mustangs were afterthoughts being Falcon based then later Pinto derived. The Fairmont showed up first because replacing the Maverick was more crucial at the time when the compact and midsize segments of the market were fast growing and Ford needed new product.

Let's not forget too that the SN-95 is the Fox-4 platform. They literally took the Fox platform and redesigned the suspension and body structure to optimize it for the 1994 Mustang. The only parts left that carried over intact was the floorpan and front suspension crossmember. There were a few parts modified from their original design but about 60% of the vehicle was all new. I have a picture in a historical Mustang book that shows all the unit body structure parts painted by color code to indicate which parts are carried over, modified and all new.

I personally hope the Mustang continues. It may have to change in some ways to sell in a contemporary market.

I personally hope the Mustang continues. It may have to change in some ways to sell in a contemporary market.

Or it may have something to do with the fact that Ford no longer sells hundreds of thousands of Mustangs a year when people used to buy them as a primary personal vehicle. Look at all the best selling vehicle catagories of each decade and you will see now that Mustangs are a personal toy in a market dominated by family vehicles seeking passenger room and utility. In the 1960s, Mustangs sold as a sensational new expression of a vehicle that had not existed before which buyers ate up. In the 1970s, Mustang II just coincidentally happen to be in the right place at the right time during gas shortages and the high demand for economy cars. The Mustang sold in the 1980s primarily for its refocus on high performance but never in numbers as huge as their sales record setting predesessors as the mass market switched to sedans and later SUVs. The Mustang is now a survivor of the nearly vanished two door coupe market and the only thing that keeps it going are existing Mustang enthusiasts and the dwindling number of people who still want a personal performance car divided by all the similar vehicles offered by other brands. By those accounts Mustang still performs well enough to keep it in production. However the Mustang has to earn it's keep to continue.

It will probably be more like CrossStang Powerboost Bullitt.

Ford is repeating history just like when it neglected the Taurus so long and only focused on Explorers. Ford loves to let product go stale and wonders why no one is buying it.

Ford is repeating history just like when it neglected the Taurus so long and only focused on Explorers. Ford loves to let product go stale and wonders why no one is buying it.

What's wrong with the forum double posting all the time lately??

Escala already has a front end/grille look very similar to existing new Mazdas and a few new Buick-Opels so I really don't see the Escala as a specific new look. Just homogenous. It's an A U D I L L A C _