OldFordJim

Yeah but, what part of those sales are from the Cash For Clunkers Program and will dealer traffic continue after that has run it's course?

Thanks, I appreciate anything you said. Right now, we've got Blue Care Net but, we've thought about changing to a PPO just for the ability to go to any doctor or hospital. With BCN, whoever your PCP is, you have to go to doctors in their network and to the hospital they're affiliated with. In our case, our PCP is with Garden City Hospital and we don't like that place. But, our PCP is a good doctor and I would hate to lose her. I know Priority Health used to be Care Choices and we used to be with them. But our PCP dropped her affiliation with them and went over to M-Care which got bought out by BCN. When she resumed her connection with PH, I wanted to change back to them but, the NESC told me I couldn't because I didn't live in the right zip code and when I said I had them before and why couldn't I have them again, they told me there's no way I could've had them before unless I moved from that area to where I am now. I said, nope, I had them right where I am and there's no reason I can't again. They refused, said I could only get BCN, Blues Preferred, HAP and, BC/BS traditional. The people that run that stuff are just plain stupid.

Hey, thanks for the reply but, what about the out of pocket maximum which is about $500 or so. Where does that come in? Have you had to pay out on that yet? And what about this co-insurance of 10%? Where does that come in? The packet they send out doesn't give any examples and it's hard figure where all of this plays out.

I kind of think this is the right thing to do. Why, if a committee man is voted out, shouldn't he or she go back on the floor and work like everybody else instead of union brass handing them some "special" job to take care of them. I never liked it and thought it was wrong. Also, some of those appointed jobs like quality representative or whatever that aren't really that necessary most of the time.

This is for anyone, preferrably in Michigan, active or retiree who has Blues Preferred Plus PPO. I've thought about whether or not it's a good idea to switch from and HMO to a PPO but, all this businees about deductibles, out of pocket maximums and 10% co-insurance has me confused. I've talked to someone at NESC and all they did was read from the info packet they send out on request and which I've got. I want to hear from someone who has it and has had to use it and pay that money for care. Because all it looks like to me is three separate things they make you pay that add up to the same thing. I know on a deductible, like your car insurance, you have to pay the first few hundred bucks right off the bat. But where does the out of pocket maximum come in and what the hell is the 10% co-insurance. I thought after you paid the deductible and oopm, you were done and everything was covered. But the woman at NESC today said something about you then have to pay the 10% co-i. Why don't they just have an fixed amount, say $1,000, that you have to pay right away and then you're covered for everything. I would appreciate any info anyone can give me. I'll probably just stay with BCN since there's none of that other crap and it's nice and easy and cheaper. A friend of mine who retired from Detroit Diesel, has Blues Preferred and has to pay nothing out of pocket, period.

Read my post again, kid. Did I anywhere mention either party? No! Republican or Democrat, doesn't matter. I wouldn't believe any of them if they said day was light or dark was night. They don't care on iota about any of us. We're just votes to them to keep their jobs. When they're running for re-election, they're our buddies and pals. As soon as they get into office, it's so long suckers, thanks for the memories. And don't let all this back and forth banter between the parties fool you. They're all in it together.

You're an idiot. Anybody that believes what a government organization tells you as the truth needs to have their head examined. Tell me something, by reading the garbage that the CBO puts out, did you get a free drink of Kool-Aid with it?

Hey pal, I think you might have things mixed up a little. I've been retired since 2000. I went to the pre-retirement classes and when I did retire, it was explained to me that I would get so much per month, a combination of my Life Income Benefit(pension) and the Supplemental Income Benefit till I reached age 62. I then would lose the Supplemental Income Benefit when SS would kick in. There was nothing, absolutely nothing mentioned about a reduction in the pension itself, only the SIB. Also, that SS would be less than at full retirement age, because of the age I retired at and the retirement package I was under but, I would still getting about the same money as I've been getting for the last nine years. In fact, several guys who retired before me said, I'll get a little bit more. I'm scheduled to get my first SS check in September. And according to what we were told at a union meeting about a year and a half ago by a woman from International, for 1 year, I and, many others, will get to double dip. We will continue to get the SIB for one year besides our SS. Then, when I hit 63, the SIB goes away forever. I think your mix up might be that with the loss of the SIB, it does reduce what you get from Ford but, the pension itself does not go down. Like another poster said, ask around and see what others say. If you know any retirees that have been out for awhile, ask them.

Todays Detroit News has details of the GM-UAW deal. GM hourly retirees lose dental and vision coverage and prescription coverage on certain drugs. Another article said that both GM and the Obama administration wanted to eliminate hourly pensions but, I guess the union bargained that they be kept in and they agreed, for now.

I agree with you that those cars should not be built in Mexico but, the fact remains that the Fusion and Milan are good sellers and the money Ford makes on them is helping to keep this company going in these times and that in turn is keeping us going because some of those profits will be invested in other jobs in other plants, U.S. plants. I retired out of Livonia Trans and my oldest son works there now and the they've been getting additional work on the new 6 spd trans and there could be more new work coming in if things go right.

About two years ago at my locals Christmas meeting, some woman who worked at Solidarity House came and spoke and she started saying how she saw too many Fusions and Milans in the parking lot and shame on anybody who buys a car built in Mexico with non union labor even if it's a Ford. One of the membership jumped up and told her not to say that stuff because some of the components in those cars were built in the U.S. in UAW shops and that would jeopardize their jobs. And that's why sometimes this union talks out of both sides of their mouths. Don't buy a car from the company you work for because it's built out of the country and non union but, check out their little list of cars they approve of and there's Toyotas and Mitsubishis, Japanese cars. I don't know about anyone else but, I'm going to buy the Ford built in Mexico where the profit goes to Dearborn before I buy a union built Jap junk and see that profit go to Tokyo.

Yeah, take those away but, with Fiat in the picture, some of their cars will take their place and whatever new "joint" venture vehicle they develop.

Two Detroit Chrysler plants will close for good under the bankruptcy business. The Sterling Hts Assy and Detroit Axle will both close along with the Conner Plant that build the Viper and 5 more unannounced plants nationwide will also close for good.

Appointees? That's where committee people who get voted out go so they don't have to go back on the floor and do manual labor.

Don't kid yourself. Specter didn't switch parties because he's tired of the Republicans and thinks the Democrats are the way to go. He switched because he sees it as a way to keep his job, nothing more. He was set to face very stiff competition in his bid for re-election and was far behind in the polls to another Republican. He even said today that he was not about to give up his career because of 200,000 Republican primary voters. So, he did it for one reason, himself. And he says screw you to all those people of Pennsylvania who supported him over the years. And you know something, when he runs next year as a Democrat, he still might get his ass kicked and be out of a job. I sure hope so, the schmuck.

And wait till the Walmart store manager comes up to him and tells him he's working extra hours tonight and he's not getting paid for it and don't think you can just leave, either. The doors will be locked and you'll be here till I let you out.

For the most part, Albom is a bozo. But what he said in his Sunday column was dead on. And today the headlines in The Detroit News said the same thing. Washington makes the Big 3 jump through hoops, roll over, play dead and everything else if they want the loans. But as soon as a bank starts to go under, they can't get them help fast enough. It's plain to see who they're in bed with and off who's trough they're feeding from.

I agree that the liberals are just as bad with what they probably drive but, the ones I mentioned are the ones barking the loudest. But when you think about it, what constitutes a foreign car? Even the UAW has changed their tune on this somewhat. Used to be the union pushed for not buying foreign cars, period. Now, it's ok to buy a foreign car if it was built here in a union shop. They keep putting out their little list every year with all the cars they approve for buyng and the ones they don't approve of. At my local retiree meetings, a UAW official from Solidarity House, scolded retirees because she saw Fusions and Milans in the parking lot. Because it was built in Mexico, we should not buy it, it was foreign. Didn't matter if the profits went to Dearborn, and those profits were helping keep the company going, it was a foreign car. But it was quite alright, according to her, to buy a Toyota Corolla or Tacoma or Mitsubishi Galant because they were built in the U.S. by union labor but, the profits went to Japan. One chapter member stood up and got in her shit, saying that even though the Fusion/Milan was built in Mexico, there were components built by union shops in the U.S. that went into those vehicles and boycotting those cars still hurts union brothers and sisters.

That was pretty stupid on their part. They should've all went on one or took a commercial flight. It would've put them in a better light. But, what gets me is all those Republicans in DC telling the Big 3 that they should just let themselves file for bankruptcy and reorganization like every other company would have to. That's funny, because, I didn't hear them or even the Democrats tell that to AIG and every other financial and insurance company that's getting bailout money. No, they just hand it over to them to do as they please and they don't even have to pay it back. Sounds like there's a double standard going on but, you don't hear anybody on Fox, CNN, MSNBC, or anybody bring it up. Because they don't care if the Big 3 survive or not. Why should they, they all drive BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus, Infinitis. I'll bet only a small percentage drive Fords, GM's or, Chryslers. I sure wish those assholes were in front of me becuase I'd tell em that right to their faces.

I can tell you who's not buying Big 3 cars. All those Wall Street asshats, alot of the financial commentator chumps on FBN, CNBC, Republican Reps and Senators. Yup, all of them who are so adamantly against any help for the Big 3 and continue to say to let Ford, GM and, Chrysler go down and face the consequences. That's because they all drive BMW's, Mercedes, Audis, any Jap car and any other that's from a foreign company. So they could care less about any of us. To bad they weren't this critical of all those financial companies that are getting all of our tax money.

My son was told the other day that he would probably going back to Livonia within the next two weeks and he's chomping at the bit to get back there. As for future work, I sure hope they get it. Last year at the 182 retirees Christmas meeting, then local prez John Caizza adressed us and said that he had assurances that new work was coming to Livonia. And I know since then things have changed and that there was an incident involving Caizza, which I won't go into and that the work went somewhere else. I heard it from two sources. But, I'm hoping that Steve Zimmerla can change the companies mind and get more work in there. Like Pillsbarry said, the plant is very important strategically for the company and needs to stay that way.

I looked up the word jackass in the dictionary and Ted Turners picture was right next to it.

Sounds like the WTO's idea of "fair trade" is they get to send their junk here free, but we to send ours. Plus, they can take care of their own car companies but, we can't. Tell them F O.

I agree with you 100%. I don't know why all the high seniority guys are still sticking around instead of retiring. They must think that good times are right around the corner and the OT is coming back. Don't they know that by them not getting out, that a worker with less time could lose their job? Let's give those guys a chance. I know that in the group my son went to Wayne with, there was a guy with 36 yrs that went over. When he was asked why, he said he wanted to try something new. Want to try something new, bud? Try retiring and let a younger guy have his chance. My son also said that there was a father and son who worked at Livonia and the son faced losing his job and he wanted his dad to take the buyout and retire and maybe he'd be able to keep working. The dad refused, saying, I had my hard times getting laid off, you can too. And I takled to my son about an hour ago and he said he's supposed to be back at Livonia in a couple weeks. At least that's what Wayne labor relations told him. He also said that when he left to go to Wayne, Local 182 President Steve Zimmerla, told him that he was supposed to go fro 6 months but, that in special instances, he might get called back before then. Livonia is adding a second shift, possibly midnights, and that is the reason for the call back. Getting back to the high seniority guys sticking around. I retired in 2000 with 35 1/2 yrs. I have had no regrets whatsoever inleaving when I did. My health forced the issue, otherwise, I would've gone for 40 yrs and then left but, I'm glad I left when I did. The only thing that scares me is the state of the Big 3 and whether or not our pensions and healthcare are going to survive. I'm 61 yrs old and don't relish the thought of looking for a job. And the job market is not much these days. I guess I might have to turn in some illegal alien just to get his job. By the way, Pillsbarry, check your private messages.

People who rip us UAW guys as lazy, uneducated good for nothings who know nothing about hard work should take a trip into just about any office building and watch white collar people work. I've heard and read countless stories about white collar workers sleeping at their desks, playing video games on the company computers, buying stuff online, standing around jaw jacking over coffee all the time. But that's ok, they went to college, the're entitled. A few years ago, I read a story about white collar people describing their day at work. One guy said how he fixed his desk so that when the boss walked by, he would only see his back. That way, he could nap at his desk, sitting up with a pencil in his hand like he was busy. Then he would wake up, tell someone he was going to meet a client, then go to an afternoon movie, then the bar afterwards. Yup, real hard worker.