Bob Rosadini

Sully- trust me- it doesn't get through the joints- if water could get through the joints- were talking groundwater- the opposite would be true and the pipeline would be spewing product as a matter of routine as it is always pressurized. In any case, the article you provided was a good one. As a further point, ethanol is such a problem with respect to water, that it is not added to the base gasoline (known as R-bob for 87 and P-bob for 93) until the tank truck is being loaded. It is then blended at a 10% ratio- or in the case of E85, an 85% ratio Also, when you get water in a service station tank, (conventional gasoline) it sinks to the bottom. The pick up on an underground tank is typically 3 or 4 inches off the bottom so you just routinely pump the water bottom. With ethanol, a little bit of water will drop out but once you get to a saturation point, the water will pull the ethanol out of the gasoline and it will fall to the bottom . You end up with ethanol, then water, then the gasoline which is no longer oxygenated. This is known as phase separation. A royal PITA! Solution- best one, pump everything out.

Diesel makes a lot of sense. What confuses me is the fact that Ford announces a reversal on the commitment to hybrids, then turns around and announces a major investment in a hybrid research center for Volvo. With ultra low sulfur a reality this fall, and with all the money Ford has poured into the Puegeot JV, it would seem Ford should be well positioned to make the move. E85? Makes a lot of sense in the cornbelt but until the problems associated with moving ethanol by pipeline are solved, the logistics associated with moving 85% of our gasoline supply by inefficient rail and truck arrangements will drive the cost of E85 up. In my book its not a realistic alternative for most of the country.

Nick, I would have to agree with SJ and a few others who echo the same thought. It would not take much IMO. The powertrain issue should be fairly easy. The front and rear clips should not be all that difficult. Again, would a complete platform change be nice? Of course, but understnding the need to spread the development bucks around, I still say a small investment would bring big returns. As I have previously said, and we all know,the PI business pays the fixed costs to run STAP- at least I would bet it comes close. Anything else in incremtal sales is gravy. Last thing that no one has mentioned is MARKETING. There is NONE rght now. Think about the car- its bullet proof, accomodates a big family and a lot of "stuff" in the trunk, its safe- 5 stars worth-but the problem is NO ONE KNOWS THIS unless you are a prior owner. This should bean easy decision and a slam dunk for not a lot of money.

PItrippin. Good post. My 00 with the 41G package is pushing 208,000 and it is solid as a rock. Last mo. I averaged almost 22 mpg and remember the 00 41G had 3.55's. I'm about to order an 07 Sport, but really do wish they had made some changes- like get rid of the excess crush zones in front and back, give it a few more amenities- like driving lights, a light under the hood, etc. The car does not have to be the pace car of AARP! Unfortunately we all sound like broken records on this site. I can't believe the product planners are as blind as they seem to be.

999, Sounds like your group warranted a heavy hitter like Stevens to put on a presentation-that means they have clout. Sounds like you also got a lot of buzz words. Seems to me a group of dedicated annuitants who truly understand the situation could get a lot of action by involving the press. A few well placed e-mails to a guy like Dan Howes at the Detroit Free Press would truly pay off in the long run if you have a legitimate story that has to be told. And I'm sure that you and a lot of your fellow annutiants do have a lot of good insight as to what is wrong and also what needs to be done. I was reading a string of posts by people at KTP. If you believe 50% of what they write, it sounds like management still doesn't understand the reasons for Toyota and Honda's success. I'm a firm believer of the power of the press. Guys like me- a stockholder and true blue loyalist -don't carry the weight that employees and annuitants carry. And as you annuitants don't have to buy into the party line, you guys can REALLY tell it is.

Let's hope the product boys really pay attention to the 66-77 Bronco-They captured the look with the concept, now they have to follow through with true off road capbility, decent road manners that make it an acceptable commuter and moderate cost. And as others have pointed out, a diesel will be the added attraction. Ford seems to be pushing small diesel technology in Europe- let's bring some of that over here!

Shamrock, You are correct. The PI business pays the light bill at STAP. A little marketing and every CV/GM sale would be gravy. The cars are bullet proof and are great value. I have a 2000 with the 41G pkg. In 2000 that had 3.55 gears. I still average over 20 mpg- with 3.55's and not too light a foot. Itsa Co. car and our fleet guy wants me to get rid of it- and get what??? I have 204,000 on itand I keep holding out that some improvements will be made. I maybe retired first!

At the risk of beating a dead horse, the car is one of the best values on the road. My 2000 (Co. car) with 204m blew the heater core last week. I had a Taurus for two days as a replacement- an 04 with 56m on it-a Vulcan no less. I think we paid around 20 grand for these in 04, and it too was good value. But I digress. My 2000 has the 41g pkg and 3.55 gears. I average over 20 mpg with a combination city/rural/highway at 75 mph. Thing is still tight. I can do 300 miles in a day and I'm comfortable. I had a Ford demo 500 Limited for a week- AWD, all the bells and whistles. Glad to be back in the CV- I can stretch out. What is wrong with this car? How much would it take to freshen it up? The cop car business pays the overhead at STP. Get some of the "crush zone" off the front and the back-hopefully add a "427" look, a few more tweaks on the interior, and a few more ponies, and maybe advertise in something other then the AARP Journal (not sure they do) and guess what, they might milk it for a few more years! It doesn't have to be a "geezermobile"!

There is no good news in the 2007 order guide. No mechanical improvements, no 3.5, and of course no mention of any styling changes- I guess frog eyes stay with us until 08's. :shrug: :shrug:

Good topic and a lot of valid points made on both sides. To this stockholder and loyal customer my theory is the no. 1 culprit ALWAYS has to be management. If things are out of control, whose fault is that? Did Ford give the store away in prior negotiations? I guess thjey did. Why did they? Because they had no stomach for a strike and were willing to fold their tent. Was Union leadership to blame too? I would say yes. It takes a tough guy to say "no" to the dues paying membership. But guess what. the pigeons are coming home to roost. To the UAW member who thinks he is worth 65 bucks an hour, think again- there are plenty of people in Toyota/Honda plants in this country who are quite content to work for less. Forget about the rest of the world. Look in your own back yard. Let's hope Ford is sincere in its desire to build a state of the art facility here in this country. And le't hope the UAW leadership has the balls to hold the line with that portion of the membership that fails to recognize its a new world. One last thing. Before someone flames me, I'm an old guy who has a college education and has driven an 18 wheeler at one time for my employer (Still keep my CDL and medical current) and also flown on the company Citation. I've spent my time driving through picket lines when the troops lost sight of reality and you know what?- it was tough and scary too. But in the end, its no different then raising your kids. Say yes to everything to avoid grief and reality and you end up paying the price for your failure to address the issues. I've been on both sides. Well enough of this- I'm about to get hell from "the boss" for not helping with Easter dinner! PS Ford management? Some great leaders and some assholes. My hope is that some day Jac steps off the curb in front of the last Louisville built at KTP. Poetic justice. Lets hope the new management is more focused on saving the company instead of their own ego and well being.

10% ethanol blends have been used for a long time. Connecticut and NY (Metro NYC only) mandated it two years ago. The current swithch to ethanol blends in southern NH, Mass, RI, NJ and metro Philly is industry driven to avoid the liability they would face if they continued to use MTBE. the bigger issue is we will pay. Ethanol will contitute 10% of a gallon. The problem is it can't be shipped in pipelines. So you are taking 10% of the gasoline out of the lowest cost distribution mode. In its place, ethanol will primarily be shipped by rail from the midwest, to east coast terminals wwhere some will be reshipped on barges while most will go by truck to the distribution terminals where it is blended as the tank trucks are loaded. Think of it, you have 10% of the volume in the huge Northeast market that will go from the most efficient distribution mode (pipeline) to the most costly- rail and truck. Prices will go up- bet on it. The ethanol industry is scrambling to build platns but they will not keep up. The oil industry is trying to get very high tariffs lifted on improted ethanol but the American ethanol/farm lobby is blocking that. Chalk this up to a victory of the American farm lobby, and the ethanol industry over the oil industry. As usual, we the consumers will lose.

You are right on that. As municipals are exempt from FET, there is no reason to stick to a 33,000 lb package. A large leasing outfit that specializes in municipal deals is located not too far from me. they move a fair amount of 650's, but you rarely see a 750. Plenty of Sterlings and Binders. Speaking of Sterling, they now have a specific web site for municipal buyers. I'm sure there are those who would argue that municipal bid business does not generate a lot of profit. I take the position that sales like that help "pay the light bill". Plus its exposure. Everytime there is a news story on the latest snow storm, what do you see? Shots of plows. Still plenty of L series on the roads, but time is marching on. Latest purchases by both States of Maine, Mass. and Conn --Internationals!

Range, You have to have a Ford Fleet number to get on it Trust me- 9 pages of "no news"

I downloaded the 07 order guide- virtually no change other then colors etc. For sure no mechanical changes.

In the short term, what would it take to get rid of the "bug eyes"?- A slight mod to the front fenders plus some Mondeo like headlamp housings. Ugliest thing on the car IMO.

Ed, Did he drop any hints on 650/750 or the tandem issue?

There is a garage in Sommerville MA. that has a steady parade of PI's going through it. Some come in with the municipality id still on them. Interesting- a car gets pounded for two or three years and THEN begins its second life as a Boston cab. Unlike the Big Apple, Boston apparently has no age rule. The bulk of Boston cabs are CV's with dual exhausts! A tribute to the car's guts.

Thx, but you missed my point. In my book they are doing little to improve their situation. Half assed attempts at everything they do. The web should be a marketing tool. Sterling today came out with a new site specifically geared toward helping municipal buyers put together a bid package. Not only that, they announce their new class 3-5 cabover that will compete against the LCF and right off the bat do a comparison pointing out why the Sterling is supeior to the Ford/H and the Isuzu. go to the Ford web site. for an image of the 750, they show a 2003! How can you have a website and not keep it current. Again, I'm a stockholder and a Ford guy. My prejudices aside, I look at anything GM, Sterling or IH does and they are convincing that they want to be in the business. Ford doesn't come close and their inattention to class 6/7 is going to rub off on class 3-5 if they are not careful. Perception, perception. Right now they show a second rate, don't give a shit attitude. The other guys? All coming on strong. You mention the "build a truck" option. You have to have an interest in the product before you deccide you are going to price one out- with prices of course that don't measn a thing in terms of competitive numbers Go to the GMC web site, check the specs, then check what "specs" you can find on commtruck.ford.com. You tell me who looks like they know trucks and want to sell trucks. Not even close. :angry:

Well Bill, I just took a look at the GMC medium truck web site and you should do the same. I would say it is time you got rid of the hairdressers you are wasting my shareholder money on who pose as truck marketers. Recognizing that they have a piss poor list of options to work with, none the less these guys have no imagination. I'm a prejudiced Ford guy. But just looking at the respective web sites- I say who LOOKS like they want to sell trucks? NOT YOU BILL. Click on your commercial truck web site, and SURPRISE, There is a reference to a 2007 750! Amazing given the fact that you can't even bring up an 06 order guide on your fleet Ford web site (Yes I have a Ford fleet account number). But when you click on it, you get a picture of a 2003 (Cautillan 750) and some fluff verbiage- no specs- just fluff. This has been going on long enough- get in the business or get out. You guys do nothing to inspire any customer confidence that would lead any business man to make a committment to your product line. Its not rocket science. Its about having a passion for being in a business that you guys did very well in before the Trotman/Nasser era. Your new LCF?? I have not seen one stand alone add for it in any of the various distribution/trucking/equipment mags I get on a monthly basis. Then again, given the fact you can only talk about a "Powerstroke" powertrain, I can understand why you really don't want to "crow" about it. By the way, who was the guy in charge of the 6.0 Powerstroke program? I hope the hell he (or probably "she") gets his /her ass kicked out in your ongoing headcount reduction. Yeh, I know you outsell GM by a wisker, but Freightliner continues to kick your butt and I get the feeling you hang for the sake of saying you are a "full range commercial truck" builder. I may be wrong, but I say there is a carryover effect and that strong commercial sales have a "halo" effect on pick up sales. Nissan is forming a commercial sales unit, Toyota/Hino is coming on like gangbusters, and their new Tundra is throwing down the gauntlet. Time to get back in, or get the hell out.

How about this. I received a new "2006 Competitive Comparison Guide" from Ford Fleet sales . This is a very nice spiral bound glossy book. The Crown Vic?? It lists the Police interceptor- thats it- no "civilians" Another interesting note- Trucks? Lists 450. No 550, 650 or750. What gives..Does this mean all of these products go away? Or is it just another sloppy ill conceived Ford marketing move? :angry:

Any of you KTP boys see anything that might suggest a cab structure better suited to a class 6,7 or 8 truck? Keep in mind the no compete expires soon. So if they are going to get back in, I would assume they would do it gradually. Any commonality of cabs as long as they were engineered properly would be a big cost saver. If the current 650/750 has any negative press, some guys bitch about the low seating position. what it needs is more greenhouse that would lead to elevated seating and improved visibility. In any case, I'm with you guys who don't like the big door/small glass look. It's a truck! It should be functional. And as for the bed height, the 150 sure as hell sets a poor example. For those fleets that have a significant number, I bet at some point in time the workers comp claims associated with back strains will start to tell a story.

McMurry- Well said. I remember when the LS came out and all the positive press it received. The only problem is, Cadillac (and DCX) took that ball and ran with it while the dummies at Ford sat around wringing their hands. I'm about to get a new car. My CV has given me almost 200,000 miles of good service, but do I want to go another 200,000 in an old platform? 500/Montego? Nice package- if you like east/west engines and FWD or AWD. And worse yet the leg room sucks- yeah I know it has great rear seat legroom- unfortunately, when I do a 300 mile day I'm not in the back seat! A sad turn of events when the company that should have been the RWD leader moves to third place.

How about "Zil" or whatever those Russian limos were. What thing that is correct- talk about cost effectiveness in terms of platform sharing- a little sheet metal banging and we have ANOTHER RWD platform to chose from- and if the chrome is significantly grotesque, the rappers andf NBA stars who want something beyond a 300C will have another option. :rolleyes