Bob Rosadini

On the subject of F-600 I saw a new Milton Cat F-600 service truck yesterday. I think Milton is in the top five in terms of Cat dealer size in the US. Typical field service truck-nice crane plus all the other toys. And you can bet they didn't buy just one. You would think so but someone who would be in a position to know, told me they are satisfied with 15,000 units a year-and I believe TT is correct-all 450/550 chassis as well are built at OAP. 450 dualies-KTP

Thx- Dealers who advertise in the two monthly truck rags covering New England continue to show few 600's in inventory. Plenty of 650 dumps. 2023 order guide still shows no air brake option for 650/750 when equipped with gas . Still say the both 650750 numbers will jump once air available with the 7.3.

Well given the Biden administrations desire to kill the US oil industry and my tax dollars that are being poured into the EV subsidies you may be right. That 500 mile range is a given? I didn't think they were that far along-at least with any sort of realistic payload figures. And of course I'm sure we are covered with an adequate supply of electricity as well as the means to deliver it.😎 Drifting off topic but I had to laugh yesterday when I saw a Bloomberg News reporter ask Energy Secretary Granholm what she was going to do about high energy prices and she gave a Kamala like cackle with words to effect like.."you have to be kidding-haven't you heard of OPEC". Yeah Granholm I'm sure he has and you revealed yourself to be a true hack.. And Im sure he knows that it took Sleepy Joe about 9 months to take us from being an exporter of petroleum to begging Opec to increase production.

IW Point of info. 1. The standard 650 frame is 50,000 PSI-strangely the low pro 650 is 80,000 The standard 750 frame is 80,000, with 120,000 as an option 2. I won't argue that 6.7 is optimal. As I said in some applications as I described it would work-as would a Power Stroke-and a 7.3 gas for that matter. 3. As for your last point, I would say Ford has added many commercial dealers at least here in New England that are carrying 650/750. There are also 3 dealers that were Ford heavy in the old days and today one is Ford/International, one is Pete/Ford, And one is Mack/Ford/Volvo By the way-what is the max RBM you can build on a single axle M2 rated at 33,000 GVW??

7m-just curious as to how you got this info. I went to Generac web site and it appears to me the only way you get any info out of them is to give them your contact info.

Well I can't quite understand why it would entail such a large investment. Ford currently offers a frame that exceeds 3 million pounds RBM. Frame rails are vendor supplied components. I tried seeing what frame specs were offered in F-liner, Paccar and International mediums on their respective websites and no luck-like its a big secret. As for the larger engine, If the 6.7 Cummins fit in the Blue diamond 750, I would have to believe it would fit in the current truck. And how many cabs in the past have been raised a bit to accommodate bigger power?-Brockway 358 became 359. Mack U raised to fit V-903, Dodge C 900 to fit 8V-71 and 7M-for sure as a GM guy you would remember Brigadier to accommodate 8V-71. And back to the subject of power, while I would rather see an in line 6, as I've mentioned before, there are plenty of applications where the truck is used as a "work platform"-such as a Vactor, crane, drill rig etc where the specific equipment often has its own power. So unlike a dump or tank truck that may need the HP, not the case with those trucks-they need axles to comply with GVW as well as off road capability. The Power Stroke would be adequate for many of those applications No argument- And as for axles, again vendor supplied -the rear axles in 750 are by Dana. Dana offers tandems as low as 34,000 lbs.

Well that is good news-in particular if Penske is involved. That is surprising as I thought one way or another Penske has some sort of relationship with Hino-or so I've been told. I believe it involves the distribution aspect? I wonder about a payload of 8500 lbs! With a gvw of 20,000 on the low end-I'm guessing- and a GVW of 26,000 on the high end, that says to me there is a lot of weight in that electric drive train.

"I"...Re your comment on early 90 rumors, I would have to believe that the decision to spend all that money on HN-80 was made during that time frame-given truck came out in 96?? And Poling was guy at top then?? (When HN-80 was approved?) One of the things that really bothered me (as a stockholder as well as Ford truck diehard) was the truck was on the market two years and they give the business away? Once again I guess Jac the Knife carried that vote given his "most profitable wins out" mind set versus any thought about a broad product slate. As for your comment on "Baby 8-go big or go home", no argument as you worked there-me? I'm a "civilian" but I always thought that a market existed for low cost tandems-either because they were low annual mileage vehicles and/or they were in an application where the chassis was more of a "platform" for like a boom. bucket, Vactor etc. Back to Detroits, one of the best "bang for the buck" Fords I ever bought were some LN-9000 tractors, 6-71, 238's, RT-910 Road Rangers. They typically pulled short pups and replaced mostly 9000 Whites-which were nice trucks but they were powered by V-185 Cummins V-8s that were a disaster. Drivers loved those Fords!

Back to your comment on "the Captain's" sale of DD, was that ever an industry rumor before the shoe dropped? Ford ever have an inkling that was in the works?? If I had to bet I would say Penske was a lot more involved behind the scenes with a lot of Ford's competitiors-in particular people at Freightliner. and if I had to bet they started the conversation with him. That was during the Fields regime?-or was it AM?

So help me out guys. What does a "spin off" really accomplish? Other than to take responsibility for success or failure off the shoulders of the parent?? They remain with an ownership stake, and depending on the percentage of the stake, that still gives then a degree of control-correct? Oh and 'weasel....a lot of inside info, thanks for that-kinda of takes we "civilians" out of the discussion☹️. Is your old boss who was in charge of total F series still connected with trucks? And if 250-550 ownership was a motivation to purchase 650-750, would that hold true for a "baby 8"-specifically a tandem derived from 650/750. Kind of like the "old days" when FT-800, FT-8000, 900 was a low cost alternative to a LNT/LT???

And that is?

Agree-snowballs chance in hell IMO that Traton would have anything to do with Ford beyond products they currently don't have in their mix. Why would they? Their dealers would revolt-now they have Ford limping along with a limited product slate-last thing they want to see is a revived Ford back in the game. Plus would "fickle" be the right word to describe Ford when it comes to heavy trucks? How many fleets -and dealers- were caught flat footed when Jac the knife gave the business away to Daimler. For some reason I had an impression that Bill Ford had an affinity for heavy trucks-but if does-or ever did-he manages to let the guys below him do their thing-or "NOT?.

For sure they did....be interesting to see what impact that has now on the International product line. Sad to see the US left with one heavy truck builder.

Always seems like that is the logic when we talk about Ford and anything but light duty. And a diverse product mix never seems to enter in to the picture. While there is no doubt that ROI has to be a consideration -and once again my broken record speech- how much would it cost to come up with a few more options for 650/750 that would generate some incremental sales-again I'm not a dreamer who thinks a return to class 8 is in the cards . And to what extent does being a provider up to class 7, make Ford more attractive for buyers when it comes to light duty?? Interesting that GM is back into class 4-6-including vehicles that are outsourced. And as some have reported on this site, in all likelihood will be soon back in class 7.

Speaking of competition...........😎 TRUCKS International Refreshes Medium-Duty Truck Line for First Time in 4 Years Jason Cannon, CCJ chief editor Oct 21, 2021 After four model years, International is giving its MV Series an upgrade. International Truck International Truck has unveiled a newly refreshed medium-duty MV Series, for the first time in four model years. When International debuted the MV Series in early 2018, it completed the company’s Project Horizon product refresh and brought driver comfort and fit and finish to Navistar‘s medium-duty segment. In re-tooling the MV Series, International focused on increasing maneuverability, visibility and safety with an extra splash of exterior styling – namely a restyled bumper and black molded-in-color grille with optional chrome surround. When it first debuted, the Class 6/7 truck, which replaced the DuraStar, missed out on many of the aerodynamic refinements found on its Project Horizon-inspired siblings like the LT and RH series. This go-around, the MV Series gets an aerodynamic hood, which along with breakaway mirrors, provides improved visibility. Debbie Shust, vice president of medium-duty truck, noted that while the MV Series was designed to look good, it was also designed to work hard and work safely, and Vice President of Marketing Diane Hames noted that the refresh after four model years was "an evolution, rather than a departure, from our existing strategy." Several optional collision mitigation enhancements are also available including Bendix Wingman Fusion System technology with adaptive cruise, enhanced collision mitigation, multilane vehicle braking, stationary object alert, lane departure warning, and front radar and cameras. The Bendix BlindSpotter Collision Warning System is equipped with side object detection alert. Built for upfit When it first debuted, the Class 6/7 MV Series, which replaced the DuraStar, missed out on many of the aerodynamic refinements found on its Project Horizon-inspired siblings like the LT and RH series.International TruckThe MV Series was also designed with upfitters in mind. A high-efficiency cooling module eliminates mega-brackets enabling integrated front frame extensions and an improved snowplow upfit offering. Smart chassis packaging changes allow for improved body integration and improved operating costs for a wide variety of applications. The Diamond Logic electrical system comes standard, allowing for customized programming for driver and equipment protection, ease of body integration and greater uptime. Hundreds of off-the-shelf features exist today for improved safety, examples of which include: driver safety with the inclusion of pre-trip light inspection, safety on the jobsite with external regen warning, and equipment protection with hydraulic oil power take-off (PTO) shutdown and an outrigger stowed interlock. Hood-mounted splash panels and on-engine air cleaner provide improved under-hood access while an optional under-hood work light is available for improved visibility during daily maintenance checks. The MV Series offers two engine options – the Cummins B6.7 and L9 – with increased fuel efficiency as well as extended and aligned maintenance intervals. Corrosion protection is also improved with InterCoat ChemGuard standard on the cab floor as well as optional LINE-X offering for particularly tough environments. The new MV Series is supported through OnCommand Connection, Navistar’s remote diagnostics system, offering the industry's most comprehensive portfolio of connected vehicle services. Customers have the option to receive real-time information to protect their assets through GPS and geofencing capabilities as well as easy-to-understand and actionable vehicle health reports. The new MV Series includes the option for customers to add International 360 – the service communications platform that makes it easier than ever to seamlessly communicate with the International service network and streamline the repair process. Don’t Miss Out

I would say JP no question on the profitability of the inhouse power trains in 650/750. However, there is no doubt when you look at Paccar, International and F'liner their spec offerings are far more broader than Ford's. Plus all three offer cabs that most would review as more "truck like" in terms of comfort and visibility.. As for "comfort", what is acceptable to a 5'-6", 150 lb driver, won't work for one who is 6'-4", 295 lbs. The one area in whichFord has an advantage is the availability of a gasoline engine that is suitable for a class 7 truck. We hear that GM will soon offer a comparable engine for class 6 and 7 but in the meantime Ford should attempt to capitalize on that engine choice. The first cost savings and PM savings are significant in particular to an operator who does not run a high mileage operation where the diesel MPG offsets upfront and PM costs. One thing that continues to be a problem is that Ford still is not offering an air brake option when the 7.3 is in the vehicle. I and a few others have beat this to death but it should not be the apparent obstacle it is. Likewise while Blue Diamond A (and pre Blue Diamond 650/750 offered Allison transmission, Ford does not. As Allisons continue to gain market share in class 8-as do other automated manuals and fully automatics) the attraction of the Allison name grows IMO.

thx JP- would you have any history? Stats on 650 BEFORE 600 went into production would be interesting.

Joe- bottom line-take what some of these You Tube guys say with a grain of salt😎.

I like the current one but the China version is nice as well- anything but that Juke Box grill similar to the GMC's, Hyundais and hate to say it but Edge for that matter. Too many new vehicles haver overstated grills- Navigator?...barf!!

7M No doubt the Louisville was a good vocational truck. While you say it had a reputation of being a "cheap fleet truck", I thought of them as "best bang for the buck". And your comment on the O/O market is right on. I remember an ad featuring some O/O who was 6 ft-6, and he was extolling the room in his new Ford. I thought .."great, how many 6-6 guys are there but you will never win over the majority whose ultimate goal is to some day have a new Pete or KW." When the new HN-80 was on the drawing board, I think had Ford concentrated on what they did best-vocational-they might have survived. then again with "Jac the Knife" Nasser in charge, the only thing that mattered was the financial return and a broad product mix with varying returns was the last thing on his mind and the heavy truck faction at Ford lost the battle.

I apologize if I posted this before. I took this about two years ago during the fall cranberry harvest on Cape Cod. That LN 9000 still with original owner. It will be back on duty any day now. To the right is a 2000 F 750-the pipe is coming from the picker that separates the berries from stems and that flows to the 750.

Stray Kat and Teamster... you need a "fix

Joe-and I would bet a high percentage of those have 25,999 plates but are derated 33,000 lb trucks-everything is about avoiding the need for CDL drivers. In any case good news if you are seeing them.

JP No question that the GM/Navistar twins have to be having some impact. But my thought was these stats support the fact that 600 is not moving to the degree many thought it would-at least by these inventory figures-and my assumption that dealers order for stock what they think will move. Now I suppose some would say.."well there is no dealer inventory because they are moving off lots quickly". Perhaps-but I try to pay attention to what I see on street and can't say I see many. I would imagine big question is what is premium$$ for a 600 at 22,000 gvw vs a 550 at 19,500? My guess is if it is significant a lot of guys will take their chances with a 550 running "heavy" every now and then. Any sales guys out there with an opinion. Or better yet any sales stats on 600?