How Bush has screwed real conservatives, and the republican party

[fmccap]

And that is not even taking into account the hidden taxes that are built into the product, that is then taxed again when sold, (double taxation anyone) that you pay when you purchase said item.

Hidden corporate taxes impose an even greater burden because they represent double-taxation. When a

company earns a profit, it pays taxes on that money. When it pays its stockholders a dividend, that same

money is taxed again. This double-taxation discourages much-needed investment. Harvard economist

Dale Jorgensen calculates that double-taxation reduces our national wealth by about a trillion dollars.

[fmccap]

Taxation 101

Corporations do not pay taxes, penalties and settlements. A subject area in economics, called the incidence of taxation, says that the party upon whom a tax is levied does not necessarily pay the tax. They might shift it onto some other party. That's precisely what corporations do. They are merely tax collectors.

Imposition of oppressive taxes on goods having few substitutes is standard fare for government. King George III did it with what our ancestors called the Intolerable Acts (Stamp Tax, Tea Tax, and others). But not for long. Americans of that day hadn't learned the lessons of submissiveness and compliance; they rebelled.

[Savetheplanet]

You guys make some really good points in this thread! But you left out how we are takin it up the arse on farm subsidies.

One thing most conservitives and liberals can agree on is that a good portion of farm subsidies need to be cut off, but year after year both sides talk about it but somehow never cut funding. Agribusiness has a strong lobby in D.C.

[fmccap]

What to do about Social Security...

I am greatly concerned about the proposal put forth in the comittee chaired by the Honorable Saxby Chambliss

that want to cut medicare benifits in order NOT to have deep cuts in FARM SUBSIDIARIES.

 

Why not have deep cuts in FARM SUBSIDIARIES if ANY FARM CONGLOMERATE is paid for not planting and

allowing fields to lay dormant year after year and anyone (former President Jimmy Carter included) who is

making in excess of $100,000.00 a year to continue to receive any Farm Subsidiary. It is favoritism stright

up and down.

 

Why is Congress picking on Medicare? I think it's because the folks who draw Medicare don't contribute

to political candidates, politicans or have a Washington Lobbyist. Sure many might join AARP but

does AARP really look out for the ones drawing medicare? Most times a AARP Lobbyist will compromise with the big

Washington Lobbyist and claim to the AARP members they were looking out for them. Talk about blowing

smoke.

 

Congress could save millions of dollars every year simply by cutting out all the perks everyone in

government receive every year at TAX PAYERS EXPENSE. What are they? Well, let's name a few.

 

(1) Franking. That where every piece of mail congress sends out in the US MAIL is POSTAGE FREE. Don't talk

about junk mail, at lease they pay postage.

 

(2) Subsidized Meals. Every government worker that eats in a government run cafeteria or lunch room that

caters to government workers is able to buy meals at about 1/4 of what it would cost to eat in an off site

cafeteria or restaurant.

 

(3) Gyms. Congress has its own gym and trainers who are paid by the tax payer. Anyone in congress who

wishes to use the facility doesn't pay a cent. It's FREE. Even the YMCA isn't really 'free' to a tax payer.

 

(4) Retirement plan. It doesn't get any better than this. Congress and government workers have their own

retirement plans paid for by the TAX PAYER and it has nothing to do with SOCIAL SECURITY.

 

Talk about fixing Social Security, why aren't ALL FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY and ALL SCHOOL EMPLOYEES

under SOCIAL SECURITY? Put all the above under Social Security and get the hands of CONGRESS OUT OF THE

SOCIAL SECURITY TRUST; there would be no need to 'FIX' Social Security.

 

(5) Health Care. ALL FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY and ALL SCHOOL EMPLOYEES have their own special HEALTH

PLANS. Do you think the adverage tax payer has a chance of being covered under any of their type Health

and Prescription Plans? Dream on!

 

I'm sorry, but I think it's time for ALL FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY, CITY and ALL SCHOOL EMPLOYEES to come

clean and let the TAX PAYERS know just what kind of gravey train they have.

 

Don't hold your breath for it to happen though.

[fmccap]

Agribusiness has a strong lobby in D.C.

There is alot of these in Washington. They should all be gone, they have no buisness being there.

[fmccap]

Uncovering a hidden tax

Imagine a restaurant in which the maitre d' asked each patron to show a credit card before being seated. Those with a card would be seated, served and then given a bill for the cost of their meal. Those without a credit card would be fed for free.

 

How long would it take for the paying customers to figure out that they were paying not just for the cost of their own food, but also indirectly for the free food served to others?

 

It is the most elemental principle of a free market: Everything has a cost.

 

When it comes to the public debate about healthcare, however, this elemental truth has largely been absent from the equation.

 

The fictional practice of this fictional restaurant is the real-life policy of real-life hospitals, medical clinics and doctor's offices. When patients come in, they're asked for an insurance card. If they have one, their medical services are paid for. If they don't, the provider often ends up giving medical services for free.

 

In the end, it's the people with the insurance cards who pay for all of it. In an important new study released last month, the nonpartisan New America Foundation put a price tag on what the average insured Californian pays to underwrite the medical care provided to the state's 6.5 million uninsured.

[Savetheplanet]

There is alot of these in Washington. They should all be gone, they have no buisness being there.

 

 

 

CAP, I totaly agree!!

 

 

Here is a little history on ADM, (Archer Daniels Midland) http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_453.cfm

their headquaters are right here in Illinois, another example of big business out of controll, it's a great read, I read a book on agribusiness a couple years ago, it totaly blew me away, being from the midwest and all.

The books called" Against the grain" by Richard Manning, one of the best books I have ever read!

 

 

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Against-Grain-Agricu...n/dp/0865476225

[uRfk9AcDfo9Wui]

Everytime someone posts something about the evil rich, I shudder. They are to shortsited to understand that some in the government want to split us so we don't stand together. I mean, we are all Americans, and once you get your wish and they squeeze what they can out of the rich and still need more money, where do you think they are going to get it from?!?!?!?!?! That's right, FROM YOU!!!!!!!!

 

The EVIL RICH run the country, plain and simple. They are the ones contributing the money to all the politicians to change the rules in there favor. Sending all their lobbyist to DC to lobby every Tom, Dick & Harry Senator to change the rules in their favor and their companies favor. Then they get all the tax breaks, make millions, and pay less in taxes that the middle class and poor. I'm not saying tax the hell out of the rich but subject them to the same taxes the middle class and poor have to pay. They shouldn't get a break because they are rich, that's BULLSHIT!!!

[Imawhosure]

The EVIL RICH run the country, plain and simple. They are the ones contributing the money to all the politicians to change the rules in there favor. Sending all their lobbyist to DC to lobby every Tom, Dick & Harry Senator to change the rules in their favor and their companies favor. Then they get all the tax breaks, make millions, and pay less in taxes that the middle class and poor. I'm not saying tax the hell out of the rich but subject them to the same taxes the middle class and poor have to pay. They shouldn't get a break because they are rich, that's BULLSHIT!!!

 

I am not suggesting they get any break. You are again talking apples and oranges, although with spring coming, they are looking better, lol.

 

If we are logical, we should not support any tax increase whatsoever......even if it is the rich they want to tax.

 

Why?

 

Because we haven't solved the problem, just passed the problem off; for the time being anyway, to someone else. If a ship is taking water faster than you can bail it, if you pass the bucket off to someone else then the captain knowingly makes the hole bigger so you both now must bail, have you

 

A. Solved the problem,

 

or

 

B. exsacerbated the problem?

 

The point is, raising taxes on anyone regardless of station in life may make us feel good, but you haven't gotten anywhere, and in fact possibly made the problem worse.

 

The biggest threat to the American standard of living is not the evil rich, the shrinking middle class, or those with their hands out called the poor. It is the overspending government of These United States.

 

Get a handle on them, and virtually everyone will join you to decide who pays what, when, and where.

[uRfk9AcDfo9Wui]

The biggest threat to the American standard of living is not the evil rich, the shrinking middle class, or those with their hands out called the poor. It is the overspending government of These United States.

 

Your exactly right Imawhosure.

 

 

But that's the problem. The EVIL RICH RUN the GOVERNMENT!!!

 

 

And they are going to set policy and taxes law that benefit them. They could give two shits about the middle class and poor. So what do you do?? If it was left up to their ass we'd all work for minimum wages and pay 60% taxes.

[fmccap]

Your exactly right Imawhosure.

But that's the problem. The EVIL RICH RUN the GOVERNMENT!!!

And they are going to set policy and taxes law that benefit them. They could give two shits about the middle class and poor. So what do you do?? If it was left up to their ass we'd all work for minimum wages and pay 60% taxes.

Do yourself a favor and look deeply into this(you to IMA).

The Real Story of Money

“It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” - Henry Ford

 

“our citizens, their property and their labor, (are) passive victims to the swindling tricks of bankers and mountebankers." -Thomas Jefferson

 

You may have heard these quotes before, but have you truly considered what is being claimed? Were Henry Ford and Thomas Jefferson paranoid crackpots? Or perhaps, were they simply more aware than the average citizen? It’s an important question, not only from an historical perspective, but in direct relation to your personal wealth and freedom.

Few people understand the true nature of money and finance, and for that very reason, few people are able to gain or maintain wealth today. Instead, the average American lives in a state of servitude to a mortgage, taxes, and a job. At any moment, everything can be taken away if a constant cash flow is not paid. The middle class’ current situation is not very different from historical serfs or indentured servants. How did this happen and who is the beneficiary?

Edited April 10, 2007 by fmccap

[fmccap]

Lastly, the government gains enormously in one more hidden way. Taxes on the public's savings are based on the imaginary “gain” from inflation. If a person owned a home or gold under a stable currency, the value would remain relatively constant. Under an inflating currency, however, the government is able to tax the “gain” on savings as their cost in dollars rises every year. Basically this amounts to a well-hidden tax on only those Americans who save money. The more you save, the more you are taxed. Is it any wonder our savings rate is now negative and the general population looks to the government rather than savings in difficult times?

[Xerxes12]

Good article today!

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/printpage.../tax_facts.html

[fmccap]

The Federal Reserve Monopoly over Money

The financial press sometimes criticizes Federal Reserve policy, but the validity of the fiat system itself is never challenged. Both political parties want the Fed to print more money, either to support social spending or military adventurism. Politicians want the printing presses to run faster and create more credit, so that the economy will be healed like magic- or so they believe.

 

Fiat dollars allow us to live beyond our means, but only for so long. History shows that when the destruction of monetary value becomes rampant, nearly everyone suffers and the economic and political structure becomes unstable. Spendthrift politicians may love a system that generates more and more money for their special interest projects, but the rest of us have good reason to be concerned about our monetary system and the future value of our dollars.

[fmccap]

Here's a interesting site about where our tax dollars go.

Where Do Your Tax Dollars go?

Interactive Income Tax Chart

WOW. This was interesting to see that second on the list is Health. Everyone complains about the Government is not doing anything and wants National Healthcare. What a joke.

Where do your tax dollars go? Notes and Sources (2007)

Military ($558 billion) includes the function area (referring to government categories) national defense, the sub-function area international military assistance, and Iraq War-related spending in the Executive Office of the President.

 

Health ($428.5 billion) is the federal funds portion of all health spending by the federal government, including the federal funds spending on Medicare.

 

Interest on the Debt ($398.6 billion) refers to the interest payments paid on the national debt. The military share of the interest payment is based on the average historical share of national defense spending. Since interest payments are on the debt which has been accumulated over time, the allocation of shares between military and non-military spending takes this into account.

 

Income Security ($123.5 billion) includes federal funds outlays on the function area income security with the exception of housing assistance, and food and nutrition assistance, which are separately illustrated on the graph. This category includes Supplemental Security Income ($38 billion) which provides cash assistance to disabled, elderly and blind who have very low incomes; payments where Earned Income Tax Credit exceeds tax liability ($34.6 billion); Temporary Assistance for Needy Families ($17.4 billion); payments where child credit exceeds tax liability ($14.6 billion); foster care and adoption assistance ($6.4 billion); child care spending and a variety of other small programs for children and families.

 

Education ($93.2 billion) includes all federal funds outlays on elementary, secondary, and vocational education, higher education, and research and general education aids, subfunctions defined by the government.

 

Veterans’ Benefits and Services ($68.9 billion) includes the federal funds portion of the Department of Veterans’ Affairs and any other federal funds spending on the function area veterans’ benefits and services.

 

Nutrition ($53.9 billion) includes any federal funds outlays classified as food and nutrition assistance, including the Food Stamp program, all child nutrition programs (such as the National School Lunch Program) and others.

 

Housing ($38.3 billion) includes all federal funds outlays defined by the federal government as housing assistance.

 

Natural Resources and the Environment ($31.3 billion) includes all spending on the government-defined function area natural resources and the environment.

 

Job Training ($6 billion) includes the total for training and employment services as defined by the government.

 

Other ($254.8 billion) includes everything else not listed above and is comprised of the following function and subfunction areas: international affairs outside of international security assistance (included above in military); general science, space and technology; energy; agriculture; commerce and housing credit; transportation; community and regional development; labor and social services outside of training and employment services; justice; general government; and undistributed offsetting receipts.

Edited April 13, 2007 by fmccap

[Imawhosure]

Here's a interesting site about where our tax dollars go.

Where Do Your Tax Dollars go?

Interactive Income Tax Chart

WOW. This was interesting to see that second on the list is Health. Everyone complains about the Government is not doing anything and wants National Healthcare. What a joke.

Where do your tax dollars go? Notes and Sources (2007)

 

 

Mr Cap,

 

Told ya not to look into this stuff didn't I!!!!!!!

 

All it does is show that what the majority of people bitch about on here is absolutely false!!!!!!

 

You are attempting to take their sacred cows away. That is not going to happen.

 

It is like me telling you your brother or sister is not really your sibling. You would fight like hell about it, and even when I proved my case, you would come back with "so what, they are now."

 

Same thing here!!!! These people don't get it, don't want to rethink what they have thought all their adult lives, and will grasp at straws to prove they are correct, cause that is easier than re-aligning their thought process.

 

Ya know what--------------->I used to be a TAX AND SPENDER. I thought the RICH were EVIL. I was so far left, I resided off the coast of California, lol.

 

Then someone told me to educate myself instead of listening to what everyone else said, then draw conclusions..........cause the things you learn personally stick with you, and the things you just regurgitate mean nothing.

 

You have done exactly what I did, and now just like I used to, you are whistling into the wind and getting frustrated by regurgitated dogma from many of these people.

 

Let me give ya hint----------->forget it!!!!!! Use your knowledge to secure your familys future just by watching the political winds. Remember-------->just cause you believe in smaller less intrusive government that spends less money, does not mean you can not profit by investing in areas where you know they will spend the taxpayers money at.

 

Better to save your family and yourself, than to try and help people who care less about containing money for their childrens future, but rather about spending as much money as possible by getting control of the government, spending it the way they want.

 

SAVE THE WHALES

 

SAVE THE PENGUINS

 

SAVE THE ENVIROMENT

 

SAVE THE SEALS

 

 

How about save the USA, and very possibly yourselves for once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[methos]

Here's a interesting site about where our tax dollars go.

Where Do Your Tax Dollars go?

Interactive Income Tax Chart

WOW. This was interesting to see that second on the list is Health. Everyone complains about the Government is not doing anything and wants National Healthcare. What a joke.

Where do your tax dollars go? Notes and Sources (2007)

 

Great links.

 

My take on it is that we need to cut spending to match the cuts Bush has enacted over the last few years. Here is a great article that covers the fallacy of "tax cuts pay for themselves". They do not! I do think tax cuts are good, but only if they can be matched against spending cuts, which never happens. The Republicans up until last January ran the show, for they had complete power. They could have made any cuts they seen fit, but instead they spent more money than ANY previous administration, period. It's a shame really, I was a former Republican. They could have cut taxes and dramatically lessened the size of government.

 

In my opinion, nothing is going to change in Washington until we have public financed campaigns. I did a lot of research on the subject 3-4 years ago for a project, and at the time, came to a different conclusion. Not about the cost, estimates are only around 4-6 billion dollars, but about issues of free speech. It seems that as soon as they are elected, they start raising money for the next campaign. I know most right-wingers do not like the idea, but that seems odd to me, for what is five billion nowadays, a mere pittance. Some states have gone to public financing, we need to take a hard look at the results.

 

 

http://www.publicampaign.org/

 

Economists Across the Political Spectrum Reject Claims that Tax Cuts Pay for Themselves

 

While serious economists are divided on the question of whether and under what circumstances tax cuts are good for the economy, there is no such debate on the question of whether tax cuts pay for themselves. Economists from across the political spectrum reject the latter assertion.

 

In recent testimony before Congress’s Joint Economic Committee, Edward Lazear, current chairman of President Bush’s Council of Economic Advisors, stated, “I certainly would not claim that tax cuts pay for themselves.”

[fmccap]

It really is a shame. It's also a shame that most people are stuck in this Republican, Democrat CRAP. Back when this country was better off, it's first three quarters of it's life, I believe they used the term statesman. I agree with you 100% about the Republicans, but you have to also look at the Democrats. They want to raise taxes and claim cut spending. Tell me what happened with the last Iraq bill, about 20 billion added to BUY votes? What happened to cut spending?

 

What is the base and foundation of this country? Tell me why in the first three quarters of this country that people had to pay almost nothing in taxes compared to what we pay? Can you find anything that tells me why at least 50% of our current government has any business being there, I have yet to find anything?

 

If I remember correctly you were for nationalized healthcare? Did you see that is currently our second highest bill as taxpayers, and as you say it sucks and needs to be a government system? They can't do right now, what makes you think giving them more would be any better?

[fmccap]

Go Democrats!!!!!

Congressional junkets picking up steam

Congress is keeping Andrews Air Force base plenty busy this year ferrying lawmakers all over the globe at taxpayers’ expense.

All told, the military flew at least 13 congressional delegations to various destinations during the Easter recess -- at an estimated rate of $10,000 or more per flying hour.

[Xerxes12]

Go Democrats!!!!!

Congressional junkets picking up steam

 

I need to go on a fact finding mission! London, Paris, Rome, Cairo, Johannesburg, then Rio, Buenos Aires, Lima, Quito and Mexico City. I'll bill the American people and give honest details about my expenses. I forgot why I was going but it will be a nice trip nevertheless.

Edited April 16, 2007 by Xerxes12

[Furious1Auto]

FACT

The top 3%

The last time the top 3% controled as much $ as they did last year was 1928.

And what happened a year later!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Too few people have too much of the $$ and the middle class gets squeezed, this is whats happening today and this is what led to the Depression in 1929-1930's!!!

Thanks for the MASSIVE TAX CUTS for the rich Mr.Pres.

These are the facts but, Why does everyone think that one party is better than the other. Neighter side is working for the common wealth. Bill Clinton signed NAFTA and, George Bush signed CAFTA. These two documents coupled with the networking capability of the internet are costing everone their jobs.

[fmccap]

Super-rich population surges in 2006: survey

The number of U.S. households with a net worth of more than $5 million, excluding their primary residence, surged 23 percent to surpass one million for the first time in 2006, according to a survey released on Tuesday.

I'm not bashing these people, but wondering when people are going to realize that we can blame our fall on our government?

[Furious1Auto]

Super-rich population surges in 2006: survey

 

I'm not bashing these people, but wondering when people are going to realize that we can blame our fall on our government?

It's not all the governments fault. American work ethics suck. rather than working hard and saving, the bulk of the population would rather sit idel. Hoping that they hit the lottery, trying to sue people or living off the system. Generations of America's children have been told "I don't ever want you to have to work as hard as I do" by their parents. What they should have been telling them was work hard and take pride in what you do. Now we have a generation of lazy video gamers and the work is going elsewhere!

[fmccap]

It's not all the governments fault. American work ethics suck. rather than working hard and saving, the bulk of the population would rather sit idel. Hoping that they hit the lottery, trying to sue people or living off the system. Generations of America's children have been told "I don't ever want you to have to work as hard as I do" by their parents. What they should have been telling them was work hard and take pride in what you do. Now we have a generation of lazy video gamers and the work is going elsewhere!

I fully agree and I guess your right about who's fault it is because they are just getting away with what we let them. So in the end it truly is our fault for not holding our elected leaders accountable.

[fmccap]

I thought this was a pretty good article.

The State or the People

Whether one stands with the left or the right, it is apparent that both political factions are failing the country. The right responded to 9/11 by asserting American hegemony over international law and by permitting the executive branch to waive aside civil liberties. The political left went along with these developments, perhaps thinking to use the enhanced power of government for its own purposes later.

 

Hoping to restrain the executive’s assaults on the Middle East and civil liberties, the electorate gave control over Congress to the Democrats last November. However, the Democrats have not ended the war or overturned the encroachments upon civil liberties.

 

There can be little doubt that the Republicans have brought discredit upon themselves. The question is: now that the political right has damaged the Blackstonian civil liberties that restrain the Benthamite impluse, what will the political left do with executive power when it regains it?