OHAP Elections

[Spring]

So you think it's better to just roll over and play dead? We have a Constitution, by-laws, etc. You don't believe that the International has to abide by any of those entities? You believe that it's okay to have your rights violated by the very body sworn to uphold them? Thank God someone had the guts to stand up to the International and say that it wasn't right! Obviously a great many people at Local 2000 felt the same way because I sent hundreds of appeals in from the membership at large in support of what Jerry, Tony Z., and Rich had done. Furious 1, there was NO lawsuit! It was a temporary restraining order to keep our rate of pay as long as the Mariner was being built at OHAP. The appeal to the International then went through the proper channels and before the UAW Public Review Board. Again, there was NO lawsuit! That rumor came about from people that don't understand procedures and are content to just make things up as they go along. The truth is not something they are concerned about.

[Furious1Auto]

So you think it's better to just roll over and play dead? We have a Constitution, by-laws, etc. You don't believe that the International has to abide by any of those entities? You believe that it's okay to have your rights violated by the very body sworn to uphold them? Thank God someone had the guts to stand up to the International and say that it wasn't right! Obviously a great many people at Local 2000 felt the same way because I sent hundreds of appeals in from the membership at large in support of what Jerry, Tony Z., and Rich had done. Furious 1, there was NO lawsuit! It was a temporary restraining order to keep our rate of pay as long as the Mariner was being built at OHAP. The appeal to the International then went through the proper channels and before the UAW Public Review Board. Again, there was NO lawsuit! That rumor came about from people that don't understand procedures and are content to just make things up as they go along. The truth is not something they are concerned about.

Well all in all, I have a sense that while we pay dues to the international and the AFL-CIO that some level of accountability is in order. The same is true with our local only at the local level, if they don't do the job they have sworn under oath to do than they can be replaced. Somehow people seem to think they have to be submissive to the international and that is wrong, it is our union and without us there is no union. I generally don't support any civil action against the union local or international, at least not where the suit involves a monetary reward to the aggeived from the unions funds or their bonding agency. (there are too many baseless lawsuits now days) Obviously that is not what happened here. I cannot make a sound judgement without first reading the appeal, but it looks more like the complaintants in the case where forcing the international to do their job! I'm sure it is easy when you are not even employed at a Ford facility to lose touch and become complaciant, but it is good once in a while to remind them who is subordinate to whom. They should have answered the appeal on their own accord rather than stalling and having their hand forced! It takes some balls to know what to do and how to hold them accountable too. I would still like to read the appeal!

Edited March 3, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Jasper]

Well all in all, I have a sense that while we pay dues to the international and the AFL-CIO that some level of accountability is in order. The same is true with our local only at the local level, if they don't do the job they have sworn under oath to do than they can be replaced. Somehow people seem to think they have to be submissive to the international and that is wrong, it is our union and without us there is no union. I generally don't support any civil action against the union local or international, at least not where the suit involves a monetary reward to the aggeived from the unions funds or their bonding agency. (there are too many baseless lawsuits now days) Obviously that is not what happened here. I cannot make a sound judgement without first reading the appeal, but it looks more like the complaintants in the case where forcing the international to do their job! I'm sure it is easy when you are not even employed at a Ford facility to lose touch and become complaciant, but it is good once in a while to remind them who is subordinate to who. They should have answered the appeal on their own accord rather than stalling and having their hand forced! It takes some balls to know what to do and how to hold them accountable too. I would still like to read the appeal!

You can read the appeal at the address which is on the bottom of the leaflet. I read it at the week-end and it is very clear that the three appealants were trying to protect the membership.It is clear that the regional director understood what they were trying to do when he instructed someone to intervene and to ensure that the pay rates and work rules stayed intact for the life of the product.Thankfully there are still some people who are willing to stand up for the membership.Furthermore it is acknowledged that the International did violate the rights of the membership.

[Jasper]

You can read the appeal at the address which is on the bottom of the leaflet. I read it at the week-end and it is very clear that the three appealants were trying to protect the membership.It is clear that the regional director understood what they were trying to do when he instructed someone to intervene and to ensure that the pay rates and work rules stayed intact for the life of the product.Thankfully there are still some people who are willing to stand up for the membership.Furthermore it is acknowledged that the International did violate the rights of the membership.

The address is:http://www.uawpublicreviewboard.org/cases/case1526.pdf

[Furious1Auto]

The address is:http://www.uawpublicreviewboard.org/cases/case1526.pdf

It got cut off in the scanner, I see it. I would cut and paste the key points in qoute tags, but the documents are in PFD form. Here is a direct LINK to the appeal just click on it to read!

This contract excerpt pretty much tells me all I needed to know!

The pages at that Link are printable and this provision is mentioned on P-2 of Jerry's appeal The company was contractually obligated to sustain Unit 2!

Edited March 3, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[Irish_Dad]

It got cut off in the scanner, I see it. I would cut and paste the key points in qoute tags, but the documents are in PFD form. Here is a direct LINK to the appeal just click on it to read!

This contract excerpt pretty much tells me all I needed to know!

The pages at that Link are printable and this provision is mentioned on P-2 of Jerry's appeal The company was contractually obligated to sustain Unit 2!

 

 

What constitutes a bargaining unit under the contract?

[Jasper]

What constitutes a bargaining unit under the contract?

is this a serious question?

[Furious1Auto]

What constitutes a bargaining unit under the contract?

How about an elected district executive bargaining structure;

1. President
   
2. First Vice President
   
3. Second Vice President
   
4. Recording Secretary
   
5. Financial Secretary
   
6. Treasurer
   
7. Sergant-at Arms
   
8. Bargaining committee
   
9. District committee people
   

Their function is to negotiate the local agreement and to administer the Local, and National agreements. Also to see that it, and the the local, state, and national labor laws are adhered to by the company, comittee, and their suboardanates utilizing the grievence proceedure and with the help of the corresponding government agencies. ( NLRB, OSHA, and the Health Dept. Ect. ect. ect) It is obvious why in 89' local 2000 agreed to create an additional unit within the same facility. The company wanted an MOA, while the union wanted a new product. Without the creation of Unit 2 the company would have had to convince the E-Series assemblers to ratify the alternative work rules! (MOA) Creating the additional unit avoided this, while it added an additional bargaining structure and oppertunites for more members to earn the higher wages of union reps. I was not here for it, but I'm assuming that unit 2's reps started from the Chairman's seat down utilizing one president to cordinate the two units. Now according to this Excerpt from the 03' local agreement the company was contractually obligated to keep Unit 2 intact until Sept. 14, 2007.

Also if my interpritation is correct the Escape/Mariner should also have stayed until that time.

Now it would have been adverse to their business to keep the product here, but obviously they where still contractually obligated to keep Unit 2 intact. We all know the unit was disbanded, but I hope you guys were able to negotiate something out of the deal. If not then you got a big wheiny, or maybe that is why when the consolidation happened it was not done in accordance with Section 24 sub part (a) of the then active National agreement that states;

In the event of a transfer of an operation from unit to another within the rouge Area the employees affected shall be transferred to the new unit, taking their seniority with them.

On a partial transfer of an opperation, the method of transfering the employee shall be subject to local negotiations.

When we came we were not placed on our jobs, but rather some of the senior employees had their jobs filled displacing them. Was that part of the deal in local negotiation? I know Mona looked down her nose at us, and would have agreed to displace our senior members with little motivation! Did this arrangement aleiviate the companies responsibility to keep Unit 2 intact, if not then what did the company give up to be allowed to disband the Unit 2 before their obligation ended? Or since the International added in it, what was given to them to let the company off the hook?

Edited March 4, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[jbores6511]

Well all in all, I have a sense that while we pay dues to the international and the AFL-CIO that some level of accountability is in order. The same is true with our local only at the local level, if they don't do the job they have sworn under oath to do than they can be replaced. Somehow people seem to think they have to be submissive to the international and that is wrong, it is our union and without us there is no union. I generally don't support any civil action against the union local or international, at least not where the suit involves a monetary reward to the aggeived from the unions funds or their bonding agency. (there are too many baseless lawsuits now days) Obviously that is not what happened here. I cannot make a sound judgement without first reading the appeal, but it looks more like the complaintants in the case where forcing the international to do their job! I'm sure it is easy when you are not even employed at a Ford facility to lose touch and become complaciant, but it is good once in a while to remind them who is subordinate to whom. They should have answered the appeal on their own accord rather than stalling and having their hand forced! It takes some balls to know what to do and how to hold them accountable too. I would still like to read the appeal!

 

I have to point out here that no one has ever won against the international ever. You may win the battle but your going to loose the war with this mentality. There is more to this story here folks. Maybe 30 years ago being a fighter was an asset. Not now! We need someone who keeps there cool, negotiates and works on bringing jobs to our plant not making a point. Lets focus what is going on right now in our plant. Who is bringing work back to us, who is the best communicator, and who are the reps doing all the "hog cutting," and who are trying to stop it. We all need to speak up against these folks. I really feel our future here rides on our decision.

[Furious1Auto]

I have to point out here that no one has ever won against the international ever. You may win the battle but your going to loose the war with this mentality. There is more to this story here folks. Maybe 30 years ago being a fighter was an asset. Not now! We need someone who keeps there cool, negotiates and works on bringing jobs to our plant not making a point. Lets focus what is going on right now in our plant. Who is bringing work back to us, who is the best communicator, and who are the reps doing all the "hog cutting," and who are trying to stop it. We all need to speak up against these folks. I really feel our future here rides on our decision.

r

Well from an employers stand point I would close any factory when feasible possible where 2 of these conditions where unfavorible.

1. labor problems
   
2. Quality issue's
   
3. Down time
   
4. Lack of Profitability
   

It only makes sense that if we are building quality and doing it efficiently while turning a profit the plant will remain regardless of who the chairman is. Are you suggesting that Ford would close OHAP based soley on who is elected? O.K. entertaining your arguement, who do you suggest will close our plant for us? You guys focus way too much on politics, and way too little on product. Lastly The company really does not fret over decent between local and the internation, it is an oppertunity for them to capitalize on. I agree with much of your statement, it is your intent for injecting it that I take issue with. Here are Links to suits against the UAW, they don't win every battle. But then again Jerry's complaint was withdrawn. Others have also filed suit to motivate the UAW. I said it before I do not and will never support any legal action against a sitting union UAW or otherwise, where the complaintant is asking for punitive damages in the form of monetary reward. We don't need to be subjected to lawsuits from some lazy shit who gets fired for refusing to do their job, or doesn't have enuogh sense to come to work. But if a suit has to be filed to motivate the international to act that is a whole new ball game. With your attitude we would have gotten the same contract that GM,and Chrysler did. All of our premium jobs would be low tier. It is people like Mary, me, and other concerned BOF members who stopped it from happening. I'm glad more of our members nationwide don't have your mindset. I can even credit Nick for this, because he was honest and critical in reporting his interprtaion of what was being offered to our domestic counterparts. This is a LINK to just one example of the UAW losing a case to it's members! Google it, you'll find more! This is not the dark ages, with the stroke of a few keys I can debunk any of your false claims so be careful not to lie or make erroneous statements. I can even query copy and paste NLRB case files to this bulletin board! Everything is a matter of public record and the days of using peoples ignorance to munipulate them are over! Here is a LINK to one of the threads just after I discovered an I-Rep doing damage control on this sight during contract time! At this point GM had ratified their national agreement, and two Chrysler plants had voted it down. We already had the complete contract in hand and were tearing it apart to see what concessions were being asked for us to take! GM did not even know what they were ratifying, because I know a GM worker who did not even get his hands on the highlights until the week he was asked to vote! We had already been reading the entire agreement for at least a week before he got the highlights in his hand thanks to SOS LINK! We were not able to evade the major two proponents, and even though the company got parity in savings the terms were better than what GM, and Chrysler agreed to! Hell I've had extensive conversations with Bob Kings son on this sight, you have no idea who you are talking to when posting and IMing! Lastly you don't have to campaign against me, because I have no asperations of becoming a representative!

Edited March 5, 2008 by Furious1Auto

[needtoknow]

I have to point out here that no one has ever won against the international ever. You may win the battle but your going to loose the war with this mentality. There is more to this story here folks. Maybe 30 years ago being a fighter was an asset. Not now! We need someone who keeps there cool, negotiates and works on bringing jobs to our plant not making a point. Lets focus what is going on right now in our plant. Who is bringing work back to us, who is the best communicator, and who are the reps doing all the "hog cutting," and who are trying to stop it. We all need to speak up against these folks. I really feel our future here rides on our decision.

 

 

jbores did you ever get brought days? or are you still on medical? just since you seem to know everything going on.

[Just Wondering]

jbores did you ever get brought days? or are you still on medical? just since you seem to know everything going on.

 

 

:happy feet: :happy feet: :poke: :bandance: :party2: BURN!

[Irish_Dad]

is this a serious question?

 

 

Very serious

Regardless of how you and I define a bargaining unit, any contract worth it's paper would define it for the contract. Ours does.

I remember when all this happened that a unit was defined as a plant, parts depot, or works. That definition changes the flavor of the posts regarding this issue. Ford did not violate the contract. The second unit was not a plant, works, or depot. Now for everyone that believes the appeal was solely to force the union to hold elections. The appeal was on the so called "Geographic area" of unit 2 and if it had been upheld, one of two scenarios would have played out. Scenario 1; the jobs would have been filled by those people who were already member of unit 2, meaning that the Lorain people would have had to make do with backfilling the jobs brought over as a result of the consolidation. Scenario 2; the MOA unit would have 2 classifications, vehicle technician or team leader. Meaning that management would have the right to assign you within your classification, vehicle technician or team leader. If you don't think this is an issue talk to anyone from the Villager Days about upgraders or SPC people.In either case the Lorain people would have been the losers to protect the lower seniority people in unit 2. That is why 75 people signed the appeal. Did you catch that fro the decision? Of the 900 people in unit 2 and the 1200 in unit one and the hundreds in Lorain Tony, Rich Jerry and 72 other people signed the appeal. Yet here we are today still beating that same old dead ass horse. Hows that for Democracy??

Edited March 4, 2008 by Irish_Dad

[Spring]

Very serious

Regardless of how you and I define a bargaining unit, any contract worth it's paper would define it for the contract. Ours does.

I remember when all this happened that a unit was defined as a plant, parts depot, or works. That definition changes the flavor of teh posts regarding this issue. Ford did not violate the contract. The second unit was not a plant works or depot. Now for everyone that believes the appeal was solely to force the union to hold elections. If the appeal on the so called Geographic area had been upheld, one of two scenarios would have played out. Scenario 1 the jobs would have been filled by those people who were already member of unit 2, meaning that the Lorain people would have had to make do with backfilling the jobs brought over as a result of the consolidation. Scenarios 2 the MOA unit would have 2 classifications, of vehicle technician or team leader. In either case the Lorain people would have been the losers to protect the people in unit 2. That is why 75 people signed the appeal. Did you catch that? Of the 900 people in unit 2 and the 1200 in unit one and the hundreds in Lorain 75 people signed the appeal. Yet here we are today still beating that same old dead ass horse. Hows that for Democracy??

 

 

You are wrong. Far more than 75 people signed the petition. As a matter of fact, it was commented on during the appeal hearing at which I was present. We had in excess of 400 petitions sent to Detroit. This included vehicle assembly technicians, maintenance and clean up employees all in Unit 2. If you would read the agreement that governed Unit 2, you would see that geographic areas are defined throughout. You say that here we are beating a dead horse but you're still getting your swipes in on that beating as well. Certain candidates have made this an issue in their campaigns which is why it is being rehashed.

[Irish_Dad]

You are wrong. Far more than 75 people signed the petition. As a matter of fact, it was commented on during the appeal hearing at which I was present. We had in excess of 400 petitions sent to Detroit. This included vehicle assembly technicians, maintenance and clean up employees all in Unit 2. If you would read the agreement that governed Unit 2, you would see that geographic areas are defined throughout. You say that here we are beating a dead horse but you're still getting your swipes in on that beating as well. Certain candidates have made this an issue in their campaigns which is why it is being rehashed.

 

 

I copied this from the decision you guys posted link for

 

On April 15, Jerry Donovan, Mary Springowski and 73 other members of Unit 2

filed identical appeals to the IEB from the UAW Ford Department’s decision to combine

Units 1 and 2. Richard Schultz filed a separate appeal on April 25, 2005.

 

 

I was wrong the total was 76 Sorry

 

As for a candidate beating this horse other than your group. I haven't heard a word from anyone but the New Dir... ooops Soldiers of .... ooops Solidarity Team

[Spring]

I copied this from the decision you guys posted link for

 

On April 15, Jerry Donovan, Mary Springowski and 73 other members of Unit 2

filed identical appeals to the IEB from the UAW Ford Department’s decision to combine

Units 1 and 2. Richard Schultz filed a separate appeal on April 25, 2005.

I was wrong the total was 76 Sorry

 

As for a candidate beating this horse other than your group. I haven't heard a word from anyone but the New Dir... ooops Soldiers of .... ooops Solidarity Team

 

 

There were many more petitions than that.

 

As for New Directions or Soldiers of Solidarity, that's funny! Shows how much you really DON'T know! lol Nice try, though. And very transparent. You need to get out on the floor more! (I know, novel idea, eh?) The membership has been very forthcoming in what other candidates are saying as they campaign. It is THEIR issues that are being addressed.

 

On a more somber note, I received a phone call tonight saying that a fellow Local 2000 member had unexpectedly passed away. Condolences to the family and friends of John Wysocki.

[Spring]

By the way, I am running for District Committeeperson as an Independent. So may I ask what you mean by "you guys"?

Edited March 5, 2008 by Spring

[Irish_Dad]

By the way, I am running for District Committeeperson as an Independent. So may I ask what you mean by "you guys"?

 

Are you trying to tell us that you are not involved in Daddy's Caucus? :pig:

[Spring]

Are you trying to tell us that you are not involved in Daddy's Caucus? :pig:

 

Do you understand the meaning of the word Independent?

[xXBucktoothgeekXx]

By the way, I am running for District Committeeperson as an Independent. So may I ask what you mean by "you guys"?

Do YOU understand the meaning of "you guys"? And by the way, thanks for the compliment in your signature.

Edited March 5, 2008 by xXBucktoothgeekXx

[Spring]

Do YOU understand the meaning of "you guys"? And by the way, thanks for the compliment in your signature.

Only YOU would take Dunce as a compliment! No, I'd like an explanation of "you guys". Just for clarification purposes you understand.

[Irish_Dad]

Only YOU would take Dunce as a compliment! No, I'd like an explanation of "you guys". Just for clarification purposes you understand.

 

"Your group" would be you, furious auto, Hemmer, need to know, The pretender rXXXbucktoothedmimiXXX. You know the other entities on here that you co-ordinate your attacks with. There is a flip side to your little signature thingy too. Only a truly egotistic person or a seriously deluded one would consider themselves a "true Genius". I am not saying this applies to you, just pointing it out.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Irish_Dad

[Spring]

"Your group" would be you, furious auto, Hemmer, need to know, The pretender rXXXbucktoothedmimiXXX. You know the other entities on here that you co-ordinate your attacks with. There is a flip side to your little signature thingy too. Only a truly egotistic person or a seriously deluded one would consider themselves a "true Genius". I am not saying this applies to you, just pointing it out.

 

 

The quote is meant to be provocative. Have you read the book? Very quirky. Furthermore, I don't need to "coordinate" any attacks. Several of the people you mentioned happen to be on nightshift as is evident by their posting times. By your own reasoning, could we deduce that you "coordinate" YOUR attacks with Crapkiller, Bucktoothgeek, etc? Same principle.

[jbores6511]

jbores did you ever get brought days? or are you still on medical? just since you seem to know everything going on.

 

What does my personal life have to do with what is going on in the plant? I know most of you don't care that my husband is fighting a war overseas, and I know you don't care about how this is effecting my children, but you better care about who gets elected this year. We made a mistake in Lorain and we paid for it. Don't think for a minute that it does not matter who your union reps. are on up. It matters a who lot when they are looking at which plants to close or reward additional work. Grow up.

[jbores6511]

:happy feet: :happy feet: :poke: :bandance: :party2: BURN!

 

 

Very cute